Greatest Dynasty of the 21st century - Lions vs Cats vs Hawks vs Tigers

[PzBlinky]

I’m not sure any of the 4 dynasty’s are comparable other than to say they’re all to be celebrated and respected.

The arguments put forward don’t diminish any of the flags won and If anything, each team has maximised their opportunities, which is so important.

Comparing teams is also futile, given all a team can do is beat whoever is in front of them.

As much as I love and 100% agree with your post, it goes entirely against the spirt of this d**k-measuring contest we call a thread.

 

[Roylion]

Brisbane had that whole COLA thing as well as all the Fitzroy players they got post merger.

Brisbane didn't have a COLA. As a AFL club in a developing AFL market, Brisbane had a retention allowance equal to 10% of the salary cap. At its greatest, that amount was an extra $590,000. In 2002 Brisbane had 8 Queenslanders on their list of 35 (26%), lower than most other clubs in terms of local players on their list. Incidentally Sydney had a 10% retention allowance and a 5% COLA on top of that.

Brisbane received 8 players from Fitzroy. Port Adelaide (who were minor premiers in 2002, 2003 and 2004) received 4 (including Fitzroy B&F runner up Matthew Primus). Richmond received 3. North received 3 (including 1996 Fitzroy B&F Martin Pike).

In 2001 two out of Brisbane's three finals were played at the Gabba.
In 2002 two out of Brisbane's three finals were played at the Gabba.
In 2003, one out of Brisbane's four finals were played at the Gabba.
In 2004, one out of Brisbane's three finals were played at the Gabba.

 

[VineySMASH]

Brisbane didn't have a COLA. As a AFL club in a developing AFL market, Brisbane had a retention allowance equal to 10% of the salary cap. At its greatest, that amount was an extra $590,000. In 2002 Brisbane had 8 Queenslanders on their list of 35 (26%), lower than most other clubs in terms of local players on their list. Incidentally Sydney had a 10% retention allowance and a 5% COLA on top of that.

Brisbane received 8 players from Fitzroy. Port Adelaide (who were minor premiers in 2002, 2003 and 2004) received 4 (including Fitzroy B&F runner up Matthew Primus). Richmond received 3. North received 3 (including 1996 Fitzroy B&F Martin Pike).

In 2001 two out of Brisbane's three finals were played at the Gabba.
In 2002 two out of Brisbane's three finals were played at the Gabba.
In 2003, one out of Brisbane's four finals were played at the Gabba.
In 2004, one out of Brisbane's three finals were played at the Gabba.

Cool, semantics then. They had a higher salary cap and a bunch of Fitzroy's gun players is the point.

 

[Roylion]

Cool, semantics then. They had a higher salary cap and a bunch of Fitzroy's gun players is the point.

Retention allowance to counter a disadvantage and players selected weren't necessarily Fitzroy's best players. They were pre-draft selections based on willingness, list needs and assessed potential. Only four that went to Brisbane could be said to be "gun' players". Barker, Molloy, Boyd and Johnson. The best and fairest and runner up ended up elsewhere.

 

[VineySMASH]

Retention allowance to counter a disadvantage and players selected weren't necessarily Fitzroy's best players. They were pre-draft selections based on willingness, list needs and assessed potential. Only four that went to Brisbane could be said to be "gun' players". Barker, Molloy, Boyd and Johnson. The best and fairest and runner up ended up elsewhere.

I know you know a lot about Brisbane Lions - and that's great and I understand you wanting to stand up for them. Make no mistake, they're the best side I've ever seen. But when comparing four really brilliant sides that won multiple flags, there are degrees of diffiiculty and I think that's what stands Richmond apart from the other three.

 

[Roylion]

I know you know a lot about Brisbane Lions - and that's great and I understand you wanting to stand up for them. Make no mistake, they're the best side I've ever seen. But when comparing four really brilliant sides that won multiple flags, there are degrees of diffiiculty and I think that's what stands Richmond apart from the other three.

Richmond - Two out of their three GFs wins (over four years) at the MCG (Richmond's home ground)
Brisbane - Three wins at MCG in three consecutive years. Loss in their fourth year at MCG after a day less preparation and a home preliminary final at MCG.

 

[VineySMASH]

Richmond - Two out of their three GFs wins (over four years) at the MCG (Richmond's home ground)
Brisbane - Three wins at MCG in three consecutive years. Loss in their fourth year at MCG after a day less preparation and a home preliminary final at MCG.

So what? Most grand finals are at the MCG, this changes nothing.

 

[Roylion]

So what? Most grand finals are at the MCG, this changes nothing.

So it was a great effort to win three in a row against Victorian opposition. Saw all three.

 

[VineySMASH]

So it was a great effort to win three in a row against Victorian opposition. Saw all three.

Totally agree. Like I said, the best team I've ever seen.

 

[Pessimistic]

A

A complete list of teams that have won three flags in five years.

Carlton 1906-1910
Collingwood* 1927-1931 (4 flags)
Melbourne 1939-1943
Melbourne 1953-1957
Melbourne 1957-1961
Carlton 1979-1983
Hawthorn 1985-1989
Hawthorn 1988-1992
Brisbane 2001-2005
Geelong 2007-2011
Hawthorn 2013-2017
Richmond 2017-2021

And you’re right… they don’t get a bigger trophy, but they do get talked about as back-to-back or three-peaters. It’s a measure of recognition.

Most of those sides had an opportunity to three peat but couldnt

 

[ourgameplandoesntwork]

Player for player Geelong clearly the best.

But didn’t go unbeaten in multiple years of finals.

 

[ourgameplandoesntwork]

Hawks had 3 x weak interstate opponents.
Good team in weak years.

 

[BF Tiger]

Most of those sides had an opportunity to three peat but couldnt

All of them except two had a chance to three-peat.

 

[Rasha]

Richmond - Two out of their three GFs wins (over four years) at the MCG (Richmond's home ground)
Brisbane - Three wins at MCG in three consecutive years. Loss in their fourth year at MCG after a day less preparation and a home preliminary final at MCG.

Who do you think was better?
Brisbane or Richmond?

 

[Pessimistic]

Hawks had 3 x weak interstate opponents.
Good team in weak years.

Belted them to be fair

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Here's my attempt. From memory all played in all three flags for their respective teams, and based on influence in the premiership years and on Grand Final day.

C. Johnson M. Scarlett D. Grimes
C. Enright J. Leppitsch L. Hodge
J. Bartel M. Voss S. Black
J. Akermanis J. Brown S. Johnson
P. Chapman J. Roughead C. Rioli
B. McEvoy D. Martin S. Mitchell

J. Lewis J. Gibson J. Selwood N. Lappin

Based on your criteria, Jonathon Brown doesn't belong in that team. Replace him with Jack Riewoldt

 

[Fadge]

Based on your criteria, Jonathon Brown doesn't belong in that team. Replace him with Jack Riewoldt

Oh looky looky.

A Richmond supporter pushing the case for a Richmond player.

Riewoldt v. Brown line ball at best. 17 goals fot Riewoldt in finals in their Premiership years v. 18 goals for Brown.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

A complete list of teams that have won three flags in five years.

Carlton 1906-1910
Collingwood* 1927-1931 (4 flags)
Melbourne 1939-1943
Melbourne 1953-1957
Melbourne 1957-1961
Carlton 1979-1983
Hawthorn 1985-1989
Hawthorn 1988-1992
Brisbane 2001-2005
Geelong 2007-2011
Hawthorn 2013-2017
Richmond 2017-2021

And you’re right… they don’t get a bigger trophy, but they do get talked about as back-to-back or three-peaters. It’s a measure of recognition.

Carlton won in 1968, 1970, 1972

That's 3/5

 

[Rasha]

Oh looky looky.

A Richmond supporter pushing the case for a Richmond player.

Riewoldt v. Brown line ball at best. 17 goals fot Riewoldt in finals in their Premiership years v. 18 goals for Brown.

I'd have Lynch ahead of Brown.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Oh looky looky.

A Richmond supporter pushing the case for a Richmond player.

Riewoldt v. Brown line ball at best. 17 goals fot Riewoldt in finals in their Premiership years v. 18 goals for Brown.

"Influence in the premierships years and grand finals"

Brown kicked 5 goals in 3 grand finals
Jack kicked 9 goals in 3

Brown kicked 79 goals in 63 games across their premiership years
Riewoldt kicked 111 goals in 57 games, and that's leaving out his AA, B&F and Coleman sandwiched in between in 2018

Using your own criteria he doesn't measure up.


Peak Jonathon Brown is a different story, but he didn't show up until later on. You're completely on your own if you think 2001-03 model Jono Brown is on par with 2017-20 Jack Riewoldt. Not even Brisbane supporters would back you up on that one.

 

[Pessimistic]

"Influence in the premierships years and grand finals"

Brown kicked 5 goals in 3 grand finals
Jack kicked 9 goals in 3

Brown kicked 79 goals in 63 games across their premiership years
Riewoldt kicked 111 goals in 57 games, and that's leaving out his AA, B&F and Coleman sandwiched in between in 2018

Using your own criteria he doesn't measure up.


Peak Jonathon Brown is a different story, but he didn't show up until later on. You're completely on your own if you think 2001-03 model Jono Brown is on par with 2017-20 Jack Riewoldt. Not even Brisbane supporters would back you up on that one.

beown to Riewoldt is a case study on how KPP role has chnged

 

[Rasha]

beown to Riewoldt is a case study on how KPP role has chnged

Alastair Lynch to Tom Lynch.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

If you were doing a best 22 of these sides. Do any other Richmond players make this side other than Dusty? You could make a case for Rance/Grimes but do they get a spot over Scarlett/Michael/Leppitsch? Doubtful.


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Jack Riewoldt gets in imo

Lions had Lynch and a young Brown, Cats had A variety of key forwards and a young Hawkins (whos best years was post flags), Hawks had buddy (for 2 flags) and Roughead

 

[rado]

That's pretty disingenuous. Tigers 2020 didn't play one game all year with home ground advantage, spent ~105 days or so in a hub, endured constant media criticism, ridiculous match day reports which drove up the media hysteria, and a scandal or two, yet still won the flag. When every coach says it's going to be one of the best and hardest flags ever to win, I don't see how you can knock it down a peg.

By your logic, I could easily say that the Hawks won flags in eras of compromised drafts, and so their 3 flags is more like 1.5... see how stupid that sounds?

My take is that including Hawthorn 2008, it's clearly Hawks > Lions > Tigers > Cats. 3 A 3-peat beats 3 in 4 which beats 3 in 5.

Lastly the Tigers dynasty is not over. If we win in '22 then that'd be 4 in 6 which makes the conversation interesting.

Reduced qtrs gave dads army an absolute leg-up (till halftime) and therefore the B2B surely has to be rated the best EVER!!

 

[Shooter#17]

Clearly it's going to be the Dees.