Greatest Dynasty of the 21st century - Lions vs Cats vs Hawks vs Tigers

Which dynasty is the greatest?

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Brisbane, Hawthorn and Richmond all in a condensed period.

1. Geelong
2004 to 2022
19 seasons
17 finals series
14 top four finishes
13 preliminary finals
6 grand finals
4 premierships.

2. Hawthorn.
Won the equal most flags in the period over an 8 year period and included a 3peat. Failed to make finals after '08 flag, 3peat during compromised draft period defeating 3 non-Victorian clubs at their home ground.

3. Brisbane
3peat, helped by the merger and salary cap concessions. Probably the greatest midfield we've seen in the modern era from a depth standpoint. Had their 4 years then disappeared into obscurity. Stitched up with the prelim in 2004 against Geelong. Being non-Victorian did it harder from a travel perspective.

4. Richmond
Could have had them either 3 or 4. A great team made greater by a single player. Had the back to back. Won 3 in 4 years and a prelim in the other year.

The OP asks about the greatest Dynasty. Brisbane and Richmond didn't hang around long enough to be seriously in the conversation. Tigers still have time, they need some more strong seasons from here to frank their earlier flags. They don't necessarily have to win more flags but at least need top 4 finishes.
 
With the teams on paper, Brisbane wins in for me.
3 consecutive flags and a tad unlucky not to win a fourth which is a huge achievement to make the big dance 4 times straight.
You need a lot of resiliance to get through to four consecutive GF appearances especially as an interstate side and the travel involved.

Breaking down the squad, they had an elite squad on paper with barely any weakness' on paper.

KPF's - Lynch, Bradshaw and a young Jonathan Brown is superior to any of the other teams up for discussion.
Geelong for all it's might had a young Tom Hawkins and a above average KPF in Mooney who got the best supply a forward could get.

Small forwards - Akermanis, Luke Power & Hart were brilliant small forwards. There's so many huge moments in this era where Aker pulled out moments of magic on both feet that made you just look back in awe.

Mids - Voss, Black, Aker, Lappin were as complete as any with a mix of hardness and foot skills which would cut you up.
Geelong's midfield may have slightly edged the Lions but **** me it would've been a battle for the ages.

Backs - Leppa, Mal Michael, Daryl White, Chris Johnson were as solid as they come. Tbh I can't really fault a weakness with their back 6, they were so reliable and consistent. You got nothing easy when you played the Lions in this era.
I'd say as a collective back 6 when 1 on 1 footy was more predominate, the Lions edge all the above teams with the depth they carried in defence.

Out of interest what was considered the biggest weakness of this Lions side of this era?
The only thing I can think of is Port torched them for pace in the last quarter of 2004 but it can be argued the unjust PF travel hurt them and maybe caught up with them when the whips were cracking in the last.
 

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Punt Road Feral said:
With the teams on paper, Brisbane wins in for me.
3 consecutive flags and a tad unlucky not to win a fourth which is a huge achievement to make the big dance 4 times straight.
You need a lot of resiliance to get through to four consecutive GF appearances especially as an interstate side and the travel involved.

Breaking down the squad, they had an elite squad on paper with barely any weakness' on paper.

KPF's - Lynch, Bradshaw and a young Jonathan Brown is superior to any of the other teams up for discussion.
Geelong for all it's might had a young Tom Hawkins and a above average KPF in Mooney who got the best supply a forward could get.

Small forwards - Akermanis, Luke Power & Hart were brilliant small forwards. There's so many huge moments in this era where Aker pulled out moments of magic on both feet that made you just look back in awe.

Mids - Voss, Black, Aker, Lappin were as complete as any with a mix of hardness and foot skills which would cut you up.
Geelong's midfield may have slightly edged the Lions but * me it would've been a battle for the ages.

Backs - Leppa, Mal Michael, Daryl White, Chris Johnson were as solid as they come. Tbh I can't really fault a weakness with their back 6, they were so reliable and consistent. You got nothing easy when you played the Lions in this era.
I'd say as a collective back 6 when 1 on 1 footy was more predominate, the Lions edge all the above teams with the depth they carried in defence.

Out of interest what was considered the biggest weakness of this Lions side of this era?
The only thing I can think of is Port torched them for pace in the last quarter of 2004 but it can be argued the unjust PF travel hurt them and maybe caught up with them when the whips were cracking in the last.
Click to expand...

Some good and fair points. Brisbane easily had a better key forward combination than we did.

I’d argue that in Johnson, Chapman, Stokes and Byrnes - yea Byrnes was ordinary but as a bit of a fourth wheel he was decent enough - that closes the gap somewhat.

I think the absolute top end of Brisbane’s midfield - Voss, Black and Lappin - is as good as any assembled and edges Ablett, Bartel and Selwood. But throw in All Australians like Kelly, Ling, Joel Corey, and Johnson/Chapman/Enright (people forget he played predominantly as a mid in 2007) rotating through there as well, with Ottens’ ruck work, I think the overall depth of quality of Geelong’s midfield is probably a bit better. It’s close one way or the other.

The defence is where it gets really interesting IMO. As a unit I think Geelong’s defence is as good as there has ever been. Scarlett, Enright, Matthew Egan then Harry Taylor, Tom Harley (gets forgotten a bit but as a player he was a bit of a prototype of the modern intercept defender), Lonergan, Milburn, Wojinscki, Josh Hunt and Max Rooke when he was rotated there - that’s an incredible group to pick from.
Brisbane’s, as you point out, had a handful of one on one beasts and in an era when that was more important than it was later on, it made them so hard to beat.

Would have been a hell of a contest. Brisbane’s physical ruthlessness is probably something you can’t put a price on
 
Last edited:
smasha said:
Out of all the teams listed,Richmond was the only one to make the AFL change rules.
Click to expand...
Uh huh.
Rushing behinds to reset for another kick-in opportunity?
Third man up and over at ruck contests?
Chopping the arms when we played undersized blokes like Browny on bigger blokes?
Almost completely disposing of the holding the ball rule because Rioli and Poppy were tearing oppo backmen new ones when trying to clear the ball out of their d50?
 
underthestars said:
geelong did beat the greatest team of any single season to win its 09 decider - albeit with the assistance of (now video assisted) poor umpiring and (now illegal) drug injections, and a flukely arsed toe poke. So there is that
Click to expand...
Salty B
 

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White Dogg said:
I've analysed the votes to see how many neutrals voted for each side, as opposed to their own club supporters voting.

Out of 202 votes for Brisbane, only 42 votes are from Brisbane supporters, meaning a whopping 79.21% of votes for Brisbane are from neutrals.

Out of 114 votes for Geelong, 54 votes are from Geelong supporters, meaning 52.73% of votes for Geelong are from neutrals.

Out of 148 votes for Hawthorn, 100 votes are from Hawthorn supporters, meaning 32.43% of votes for Hawthorn are from neutrals.

Out of 44 votes for Richmond, 42 votes are from Richmond supporters, meaning only 4.54% of votes for Richmond are from neutrals.

Votes from neutrals are the best indicator of how revered each dynasty is in the football world, as supporters voting for their own club doesn't mean much since they're always going to say their own club is the best.

Poll results (neutrals only)..

Brisbane - 160 votes
Geelong - 60 votes
Hawthorn - 48 votes
Richmond - 2 votes

Total - 270 votes.
Click to expand...
You forgot one "minor" consideration... the vast majority of neutrals don't see Brisbane as a threat and see them as the lesser of the evils, when voting.
 

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Guju said:
You forgot one "minor" consideration... the vast majority of neutrals don't see Brisbane as a threat and see them as the lesser of the evils, when voting.
Click to expand...
This is actually an underrated post and something I hadn't really considered before.

Take votes for Richmond out of the equation as most of us were excited for Richmond and our Richmond supporting buddies when they broke their drought, but I can't see a world where:
Geelong supporters vote for Hawthorn;
Hawthorn supporters vote for Geelong;
Richmond supporters vote for Geelong.
 
marshdogg said:
Brisbane EASILY has the others covered, they were properly scary.
Click to expand...


Concise but totally accurate. The Lions of 2000-2004 were easily the best side of all those mentioned.
And they had by far the best coach to boot.
None of the other sides made me think "Geez I wish my team played like that" but Lethal's Lions did.

Only been two other sides to rival them in my lifetime, the 1950's Demons and the Hawks of the 1980's (where Lethal came from)
 
Interesting and never ending discussion, on a side note I posted a thread at the end of the 2020 season about selecting a combined side from these 4 "dynasty" teams. Could add to the discussion... here is my OP from that 2020 thread >
___________________________________________________________________________

I know this will be pretty divisive particularly since as a Lions supporter I have selected more Lions players in the side than the other 3 sides, I do however think that the Lions of that era were stacked with more elite individual talent than the other 3 sides, the merit of each side as a collective is for another thread.

Criteria- Must have played in at least 3 flags(some Hawks have won 4) which leaves out the likes of Gary Ablett and Lance Franklin.

Dylan Grimes, Matthew Scarlett, Chris Johnson.
Luke Hodge, Justin Leppitsch, Corey Enright.

David Hale, Michael Voss, Sam Mitchell.
Simon Black, Trent Cotchin, Shane Edwards.

Jonathan Brown, Jack Reiwoldt, Dustin Martin.
Cyril Rioli, Alistair Lynch, Luke Breust.

Joel Selwood, Shaun Burgoyne, Nigel Lappin, Jason Akermanis.
__________________________________

Unlucky- Brad Ottens, Toby Nankervis, Clark Keating, Bachar Houli, Jimmy Bartel, Steve Johnson, Paul Chapman, Darryl White, Nick Vlastuin, Brian Lake, Grant Birchall.

I found it hardest to select the ruckman and to leave out Houli, Birchall and Bartel, tossed up Edwards or Bartel and Johnson or Houli/Birchall.

There are 59 players to select from, the Lions have 16 3 time flag winners, Cats 12, Hawks 17 and Tigers have 14.
__________________________________________________________________________

Looking back now with a further 3 years hindsight I would probably change a few in my side > maybe Ottens for Hale, Bartel for Edwards, Lake for Grimes ??
 
M Malice said:
Interesting and never ending discussion, on a side note I posted a thread at the end of the 2020 season about selecting a combined side from these 4 "dynasty" teams. Could add to the discussion... here is my OP from that 2020 thread >
___________________________________________________________________________

I know this will be pretty divisive particularly since as a Lions supporter I have selected more Lions players in the side than the other 3 sides, I do however think that the Lions of that era were stacked with more elite individual talent than the other 3 sides, the merit of each side as a collective is for another thread.

Criteria- Must have played in at least 3 flags(some Hawks have won 4) which leaves out the likes of Gary Ablett and Lance Franklin.

Dylan Grimes, Matthew Scarlett, Chris Johnson.
Luke Hodge, Justin Leppitsch, Corey Enright.

David Hale, Michael Voss, Sam Mitchell.
Simon Black, Trent Cotchin, Shane Edwards.

Jonathan Brown, Jack Reiwoldt, Dustin Martin.
Cyril Rioli, Alistair Lynch, Luke Breust.

Joel Selwood, Shaun Burgoyne, Nigel Lappin, Jason Akermanis.
__________________________________

Unlucky- Brad Ottens, Toby Nankervis, Clark Keating, Bachar Houli, Jimmy Bartel, Steve Johnson, Paul Chapman, Darryl White, Nick Vlastuin, Brian Lake, Grant Birchall.

I found it hardest to select the ruckman and to leave out Houli, Birchall and Bartel, tossed up Edwards or Bartel and Johnson or Houli/Birchall.

There are 59 players to select from, the Lions have 16 3 time flag winners, Cats 12, Hawks 17 and Tigers have 14.
__________________________________________________________________________

Looking back now with a further 3 years hindsight I would probably change a few in my side > maybe Ottens for Hale, Bartel for Edwards, Lake for Grimes ??
Click to expand...

No way does Brown make that team. You’ve got to remember the role they played in THOSE premiership teams. Brown’s was minimal.

He kicked 79 goals in 58 games.

You could easily put players from the other two teams in there instead as well, but from a Cats perspective Steve Johnson waltzes onto a half forward flank instead of him, you could probably throw Chappy there too. Johnson kicked 152 goals in our 3 flags in 61 games - while gathering 21 touches a game.

In fact I’d go so far as to say he’s the second or at worst Geelong player picked behind Scarlett and Enright
 
M Malice said:
Interesting and never ending discussion, on a side note I posted a thread at the end of the 2020 season about selecting a combined side from these 4 "dynasty" teams. Could add to the discussion... here is my OP from that 2020 thread >
___________________________________________________________________________

I know this will be pretty divisive particularly since as a Lions supporter I have selected more Lions players in the side than the other 3 sides, I do however think that the Lions of that era were stacked with more elite individual talent than the other 3 sides, the merit of each side as a collective is for another thread.

Criteria- Must have played in at least 3 flags(some Hawks have won 4) which leaves out the likes of Gary Ablett and Lance Franklin.

Dylan Grimes, Matthew Scarlett, Chris Johnson.
Luke Hodge, Justin Leppitsch, Corey Enright.

David Hale, Michael Voss, Sam Mitchell.
Simon Black, Trent Cotchin, Shane Edwards.

Jonathan Brown, Jack Reiwoldt, Dustin Martin.
Cyril Rioli, Alistair Lynch, Luke Breust.

Joel Selwood, Shaun Burgoyne, Nigel Lappin, Jason Akermanis.
__________________________________

Unlucky- Brad Ottens, Toby Nankervis, Clark Keating, Bachar Houli, Jimmy Bartel, Steve Johnson, Paul Chapman, Darryl White, Nick Vlastuin, Brian Lake, Grant Birchall.

I found it hardest to select the ruckman and to leave out Houli, Birchall and Bartel, tossed up Edwards or Bartel and Johnson or Houli/Birchall.

There are 59 players to select from, the Lions have 16 3 time flag winners, Cats 12, Hawks 17 and Tigers have 14.
__________________________________________________________________________

Looking back now with a further 3 years hindsight I would probably change a few in my side > maybe Ottens for Hale, Bartel for Edwards, Lake for Grimes ??
Click to expand...
Agree with PhatBoy - there is no way Cotchin and Edwards get in ahead of Bartel, Johnson and Chapman if you're considering performance in the flag years.

Another interesting question would be if Houli won a Norm Smith, would you have put him in ahead of C. Johnson or Grimes? (People already know my view on this).

Great team you've selected, but I'd personally make the following changes:

Out: Hale, Edwards, J. Brown, Burgoyne, C. Johnson
In: Ottens, S. Johnson, Bartel, Chapman, Houli

Cotchin not on the ground ahead of S. Johnson or Bartel.
 
Geelong 07-11 team was the best, that Geelong team played the most attractive football. If you're sustainability Geelong have are definitely the best in that regards. Consistently making finals from 04-22 is an amazing achievement only missing twice in that period off the top of my head.
 
Richmond’s flag years: Martin 91 goals in 68 games, 65 goal assists, 25 touches a game.

Geelong’s flag years: Johnson 152 goals, 61 games, 80 goal assists, 21 touches a game.

Im not igniting a Martin vs the World debate; clearly he makes a ‘fantasy’ team like this but im staggered as to how easily overlooked Stevie J was and still is by the footy world. Those numbers are f***ing incredible - and they actually look even better if you fill in the 08/10 seasons - 268 goals, 124 goal assists, 99 games, 19.5 touches a game.

That’s not just good. That’s the sort of output that gets you in ‘best in the league’ chat but because he was never a full time mid or a key forward for some reason his name was never ever in that discussion
 
PhatBoy said:
No way does Brown make that team. You’ve got to remember the role they played in THOSE premiership teams. Brown’s was minimal.

He kicked 79 goals in 58 games.

You could easily put players from the other two teams in there instead as well, but from a Cats perspective Steve Johnson waltzes onto a half forward flank instead of him, you could probably throw Chappy there too. Johnson kicked 152 goals in our 3 flags in 61 games - while gathering 21 touches a game.

In fact I’d go so far as to say he’s the second or at worst Geelong player picked behind Scarlett and Enright
Click to expand...
Fadge said:
Agree with PhatBoy - there is no way Cotchin and Edwards get in ahead of Bartel, Johnson and Chapman if you're considering performance in the flag years.

Another interesting question would be if Houli won a Norm Smith, would you have put him in ahead of C. Johnson or Grimes? (People already know my view on this).

Great team you've selected, but I'd personally make the following changes:

Out: Hale, Edwards, J. Brown, Burgoyne, C. Johnson
In: Ottens, S. Johnson, Bartel, Chapman, Houli

Cotchin not on the ground ahead of S. Johnson or Bartel.
Click to expand...
I can see the merits in both your points, and can not complain too much about your ins and outs Fadge... the one I would push back on would MAYBE be Houli for Johnson, I was a huge fan of C. Johnson though.
 
We now play zone-ball, not football. Sure, man-for-man better teams there were, certainly Brisbane, but the legacy of the Richmond Dynasty simply dwarfs any of the others.

Forced the biggest changes to the structure of the game since the centre square introduction, way back in 1973.

There are many ways to assess 'greatness', but leaving the game itself unrecognizable before-and-after your dynasty..has to put Richmond at the top
 
PhatBoy said:
Richmond’s flag years: Martin 91 goals in 68 games, 65 goal assists, 25 touches a game.

Geelong’s flag years: Johnson 152 goals, 61 games, 80 goal assists, 21 touches a game.

Im not igniting a Martin vs the World debate; clearly he makes a ‘fantasy’ team like this but im staggered as to how easily overlooked Stevie J was and still is by the footy world. Those numbers are f***ing incredible - and they actually look even better if you fill in the 08/10 seasons - 268 goals, 124 goal assists, 99 games, 19.5 touches a game.

That’s not just good. That’s the sort of output that gets you in ‘best in the league’ chat but because he was never a full time mid or a key forward for some reason his name was never ever in that discussion
Click to expand...
Johnson is criminally underrated outside of Geelong, imagine if he didn't bust both his ankles jumping fences.

2013 Brownlow voting went:
Ablett 28 votes from 21 games
Selwood 27 votes from 22 games
Swan 26 votes from 22 games
Johnson 25 votes from 16 games

He got himself suspended on three different occasions in 2013 yet still was a bee's dick from polling the most votes. That was the year we pushed him into the middle and was going at 29 touches with over a goal a game on top of all the other crazy stuff he'd pull out of his arse on the regular. The kind of player who makes watching footy fun.
 
spudmaster said:
Uh huh.
Rushing behinds to reset for another kick-in opportunity?
Third man up and over at ruck contests?
Chopping the arms when we played undersized blokes like Browny on bigger blokes?
Almost completely disposing of the holding the ball rule because Rioli and Poppy were tearing oppo backmen new ones when trying to clear the ball out of their d50?
Click to expand...
There was a change too around the Hawks holding onto the man after taking a mark to delay them from playing on quickly.
 

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Greatest Dynasty of the 21st century - Lions vs Cats vs Hawks vs Tigers

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