Club Focus GWS Giants 2020 - Hogan, Preuss, Bruhn, Stone, Angwin, Fleeton, Wehr

[Lore]

Data from footywire. To check the draft order (updated weekly) see the thread here.

 

[GWS Goose]

I think clubs basically nominate the player they want. If they prefer someone else, they pick them. That is how it should be. I guess the system falls a bit as either subconsciously or consciously clubs rate players linked to other clubs lower simply because they can't have them. If this keeps happening players linked to clubs will always be "cheap" to the club they are linked to.
I suspect at least Green and McGuinness go significantly earlier on the open market than they were bid on

 

[Andre the Giant]

You got the same out of not bidding that you would've got from bidding. Full stop end of story.

I get that clubs have different priorities.
Some are worried about just getting better.
Smart ones are worried about themselves getting better and other teams hopefully not.

They are not competing ideas.

We had McAsey yes. But GWS didnt want us to bid so gave us a hefty first round pick FOR NOTHING.
How does that NOT benefit us more than just picking McAsey at 4?

The prevailing view was that GWS had paid the price to be in a position to draft Green.

If the Swans felt we hadn’t paid a sufficient price I dare say they might have thrown in a bid but they had identified the player they wanted and ranked highest.

Adelaide chose to put some pressure on GWS and leverage the situation, no problem with either approach but it would be a mistake to critique either club without full knowledge of their Board and strategy.

Same goes for Melbourne. On face value they could have traded with GWS got Hayden Young (group 1 machine that they need) and picked up another first rounder but they really wanted Jackson and rated him best available. In 5 years time if Jackson is a champion they will look like geniuses.

I wouldn’t get too bullish about draft picks, half of them turn into delisted players within 5 years. Sure they bring hope but the actual is often better than the possible.

We might have lost a late 1st rounder in a heavily compromised draft, but I reckon you would trade current lists with us in a heartbeat if the opportunity arose.

 

[DangerSloane]

The prevailing view was that GWS had paid the price to be in a position to draft Green.

If the Swans felt we hadn’t paid a sufficient price I dare say they might have thrown in a bid but they had identified the player they wanted and ranked highest.

Adelaide chose to put some pressure on GWS and leverage the situation, no problem with either approach but it would be a mistake to critique either club without full knowledge of their Board and strategy.

Same goes for Melbourne. On face value they could have traded with GWS got Hayden Young (group 1 machine that they need) and picked up another first rounder but they really wanted Jackson and rated him best available. In 5 years time if Jackson is a champion they will look like geniuses.

I wouldn’t get too bullish about draft picks, half of them turn into delisted players within 5 years. Sure they bring hope but the actual is often better than the possible.

We might have lost a late 1st rounder in a heavily compromised draft, but I reckon you would trade current lists with us in a heartbeat if the opportunity arose.

Absolutely.
You made the right move for you guys which ensured you got the two players given that you knew Melbourne werent bidding.

I would certainly trade lists 100%! You guys have been handed the world and actually done something with it (unlike gold coast).

Its no coincidence that you get a couple of first round picks every year. The list is very easy to replenish with young stocks.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Absolutely.
You made the right move for you guys which ensured you got the two players given that you knew Melbourne werent bidding.

I would certainly trade lists 100%! You guys have been handed the world and actually done something with it (unlike gold coast).

Its no coincidence that you get a couple of first round picks every year. The list is very easy to replenish with young stocks.

We were given the world but have done a great job keeping the players together by creating a strong culture. Have a look at all the first round picks the likes of Carlton have had. Getting the players is one thing, keeping them is another...as you know!

 

[Crow till I die]

We were given the world but have done a great job keeping the players together by creating a strong culture. Have a look at all the first round picks the likes of Carlton have had. Getting the players is one thing, keeping them is another...as you know!

Your 'business' model has effectively set the club up for a long time to come. By taking the pain early by taking as many draft picks as possible because the AFL had only just set the club up and the club had time to shape itself, it meant that when many of those players got to the 100 game mark, they showed that they really could play and the club went on the improve results wise. Due to the number of high draft picked players, there were always going to be players who were not getting game time and also some high profile ones who wanted to leave and other clubs have been prepared then offer up high draft capital to secure these players. What this effectively has done is to give GWS a number of high picks at every draft so they can take more top end talent and keep recycling the ones they lose.

I have no doubt come the end of 2020, there may be a midfielder or 2 that have not got the game time that may want out (ie maybe a caldwell and a hately) as they may have fallen behind others or not got a chance due to the quality already playing. It is very likely that these players will secure GWS the 1st round pick (s) they traded out this year thus maintaining their presence at the top end of the draft. I would suggest that the AFL could not be happier with how GWS is placed now and how they appear to be placed in the short and medium term at least and it was all because of a strategic decision they took when they first set up. Hats off

 

[DangerSloane]

We were given the world but have done a great job keeping the players together by creating a strong culture. Have a look at all the first round picks the likes of Carlton have had. Getting the players is one thing, keeping them is another...as you know!

You guys were really savvy at the start.

Gold Coast loaded up with skilled individuals.
You guys loaded up with young leaders and it has really paid off.

Strong culture yes, but you cant claim you're keeping players together.
You just happened to have so much top end talent (and good development) that you can afford to replace every year.

 

[Andre the Giant]

You guys were really savvy at the start.

Gold Coast loaded up with skilled individuals.
You guys loaded up with young leaders and it has really paid off.

Strong culture yes, but you cant claim you're keeping players together.
You just happened to have so much top end talent (and good development) that you can afford to replace every year.

I won’t deny that there is an element of that as we were particularly fortunate with the 17yo’s we were able to take (they were a far superior pool than what GCS had to choose from) and the mini draft was also very lucrative.

To counter that we did have a wasteful Recruitment Manager in Silvagni who burnt quite a few picks and failed to understand the need to have a high quality ruckman to blend with all the midfield talent.

I think the double whammy for clubs is that because the two young clubs dominated several drafts it thinned out what was available and also placed a premium on what was traded out by said clubs.

For us to get two first rounders for Shiel was actually an overpayment but that was what was required to get him.

We have utilised the value of our assets quite wisely and should be pretty safe for the next 5 years.

 

[DangerSloane]

I won’t deny that there is an element of that as we were particularly fortunate with the 17yo’s we were able to take (they were a far superior pool than what GCS had to choose from) and the mini draft was also very lucrative.

To counter that we did have a wasteful Recruitment Manager in Silvagni who burnt quite a few picks and failed to understand the need to have a high quality ruckman to blend with all the midfield talent.

I think the double whammy for clubs is that because the two young clubs dominated several drafts it thinned out what was available and also placed a premium on what was traded out by said clubs.

For us to get two first rounders for Shiel was actually an overpayment but that was what was required to get him.

We have utilised the value of our assets quite wisely and should be pretty safe for the next 5 years.

Couldnt agree more. A tad of luck and a lot of good management and strategy means you should be a force for a while.
The problem comes when/if you have a couple of drafts where you miss or the guys get injured or something.

The retention problem hasnt hurt yet. It will one day.

 

[Peel67skin]

I won’t deny that there is an element of that as we were particularly fortunate with the 17yo’s we were able to take (they were a far superior pool than what GCS had to choose from) and the mini draft was also very lucrative.

To counter that we did have a wasteful Recruitment Manager in Silvagni who burnt quite a few picks and failed to understand the need to have a high quality ruckman to blend with all the midfield talent.

I think the double whammy for clubs is that because the two young clubs dominated several drafts it thinned out what was available and also placed a premium on what was traded out by said clubs.

For us to get two first rounders for Shiel was actually an overpayment but that was what was required to get him.

We have utilised the value of our assets quite wisely and should be pretty safe for the next 5 years.

What it take to get Caldwell, Hately, Xavier
O'Halloran from GWS, GCS next year draft pick still pretty good.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

What it take to get Caldwell, Hately, Xavier
O'Halloran from GWS, GCS next year draft pick still pretty good.

You trading away your mid first rounder is probably an issue as that's probably about right maybe with a swap here and there, as lets be real your top 3 draft pick next year won't be on the table. You'd assume your 2021 first wouldn't either.

 

[DangerSloane]

Was hoping the crows would hvae a crack at Hately in trade period.

Hasnt had a lot of opportunities but has certainly looked up to it.

 

[Peel67skin]

You trading away your mid first rounder is probably an issue as that's probably about right maybe with a swap here and there, as lets be real your top 3 draft pick next year won't be on the table. You'd assume your 2021 first wouldn't either.

As good as pick 1 and pick 20 and Brisbane second Rd next year , I rather have Caldwell, hately and O'Halloran with 2 AFL pre season on board and bigger body than next year 18 years old draftees.
Lukosius, Rankine, Hately
BEN King, Caldwell, Halloran
All 21 years old next year.
Rowell, Anderson, Flanders, Sharp (19 years old)

 

[LukeParkerno1]

As good as pick 1 and pick 20 and Brisbane second Rd next year , I rather have Caldwell, hately and O'Halloran with 2 AFL pre season on board and bigger body than next year 18 years old draftees.

You'd assume pick 1 (and I'm not saying you'll definately come last, in fact I've tipped you 3rd last on my ladder) would be an absolute minimum. Even that you'd assume would be unders, but whether GWS would do it as they have a deficit so pick 1 would shift back to pick 3 or so.

 

[Peel67skin]

You'd assume pick 1 (and I'm not saying you'll definately come last, in fact I've tipped you 3rd last on my ladder) would be an absolute minimum. Even that you'd assume would be unders, but whether GWS would do it as they have a deficit so pick 1 would shift back to pick 3 or so.

NO harm offer them and see they accept it or not, better try than assume. I presume GWS would like to take josh green and Jack Driscoll in next year draft.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

NO harm offer them and see they accept it or not, better try than assume. I presume GWS would like to take josh green and Jack Driscoll in next year draft.

Who knows what GWS will do, at least 1 of Hately and Caldwell at least has some currency. You are right in the fact there is no harm at least asking

 

[Andre the Giant]

What it take to get Caldwell, Hately, Xavier
O'Halloran from GWS, GCS next year draft pick still pretty good.

They still need to be getting a game to retain 1st round status. Look at Bonar, he was an early pick (perhaps a couple of picks too early) but his value dropped significantly because he was not getting games.

If Hately or Caldwell are fringe best 22 and getting 8-10 games then I’d say they will be around the 12-18 mark.

In my opinion Caldwell is a significantly better player on what I’ve seen but just needs continuity and his soft tissue issues to abate. If he’s up and about he is best 22 for us whilst Hately is probably a bit like Tomlinson...tall, hard worker, lacks agility. Both very high character.

O’Halloran would be 2nd or even 3rd round presently as he hasn’t played firsts but he had an unfortunate injury and took a while to get going. He has agility and power and is highly regarded internally. Very high character as well.

With our cap situation we will have to lose a good mid or two at seasons end, this will be determined also by who is prepared to sign on earlier and stick around for long haul.

 

[Gunf]

They still need to be getting a game to retain 1st round status. Look at Bonar, he was an early pick (perhaps a couple of picks too early) but his value dropped significantly because he was not getting games.

If Hately or Caldwell are fringe best 22 and getting 8-10 games then I’d say they will be around the 12-18 mark.

In my opinion Caldwell is a significantly better player on what I’ve seen but just needs continuity and his soft tissue issues to abate. If he’s up and about he is best 22 for us whilst Hately is probably a bit like Tomlinson...tall, hard worker, lacks agility. Both very high character.

O’Halloran would be 2nd or even 3rd round presently as he hasn’t played firsts but he had an unfortunate injury and took a while to get going. He has agility and power and is highly regarded internally. Very high character as well.

With our cap situation we will have to lose a good mid or two at seasons end, this will be determined also by who is prepared to sign on earlier and stick around for long haul.

Good chance you lose 1-3 young players next year for peanuts compared to what you drafted them with

 

[Danny88]

Good chance you lose 1-3 young players next year for peanuts compared to what you drafted them with

We seem to every year. It has become our norm really. Mostly these are for cap reasons or because they request a move home. No doubt we will get some value for some of the departures though

 

[DangerSloane]

Good chance you lose 1-3 young players next year for peanuts compared to what you drafted them with

The ones they lose for peanuts are generally not the good ones.

Look at the value they got for Shiel, Treloar, Adams, McCarthy etc.

I get that they got nothing for guys like Scully and Patton but there are reasons behind that.
Dumping a high salary of a guy that is perennially injured.

 

[GWS Goose]

Lack of opportunity is also a driver for losing the young guys. I suspect we'll lose 1 of Caldwell, Hately, or Xavier O'Halloran simply because they can't get a game

 

[THE_GUN]

The ones they lose for peanuts are generally not the good ones.

Look at the value they got for Shiel, Treloar, Adams, McCarthy etc.

I get that they got nothing for guys like Scully and Patton but there are reasons behind that.
Dumping a high salary of a guy that is perennially injured.

McCarthy was a 4 pick down grade plus a late 2nd rounder , Hardly a kings ransom

 

[LukeParkerno1]

McCarthy was a 4 pick down grade plus a late 2nd rounder , Hardly a kings ransom

Freo paid overs going off what he’s done since!

 

[THE_GUN]

Freo paid overs going off what he’s done since!

Agreed has not lived upto expectations and has the worst tatts i have ever seen

 

[GWS Goose]

McCarthy was a 4 pick down grade plus a late 2nd rounder , Hardly a kings ransom

In hindsight should have taken the 2 first round picks a year earlier. I guess it was an important stand at the time to say that contracts need to be honoured and we won't be walked over.
All that said, I thought we got more than a late second round less a downgrade.
I thought we got a first round and second round pick swap against us. But my memory could be wrong.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Agreed has not lived upto expectations and has the worst tatts i have ever seen

Has some competition in the worst tats category