GWS is the AFL's biggest problem - not North, GC, or Tassie

[RedV3x]

reckon the AFL would be a little concerned over the attendance last night (11.7k) given as it was against one of the big VIC clubs as well and it's now Yr 12 for the Giants.

Disappointing that the match was held on a miserable cold and wet night in Sydney with all attendees taking the train.
But that's life.

 

[Bjo187]

This is what the giants and afl are dealing with in Sydney, I've always thought this to be the case through fox and particularly news.com.au promoting nrl so much more than afl, despite the afl being more popular on every metric.

Look at sen Sydney as another example, basically black banning any mention of the sport, despite having an afl fan as the CEO. John's obviously gets a dressing down from his mate Peter and it's straight in line, pulling any further mention of the AFL from his podcast. It's amazing the power v'landy's has over the Sydney and therefore national media (news limited) and it has no doubt damaged the code in nsw.

Also I don't trust the wet lettuce leaf's Dillon and Goyder to counteract this at all unfortunately.

Fox red-faced after Matthew Johns spruiks AFL

The NRL and Fox Sports have been left embarrassed, with the face of Fox League, Matthew Johns, involved in an advertising campaign to promote the game’s great rival.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Giant YoYo]

Thanks for that info Giant YoYo and my apologies for not realising that was GWS highest home attendance against Carlton so it does slightly subtract my concern last night and hopefully attendances do increase soon in NSW with appropriate family time-slots and the weather ofc against all clubs in the future.

It's more than alright mate. Here to share my on the ground account of how things are out this way. I follow one of the smallest clubs in the comp and am fully aware of our challenges out this way. Wish things would change for the better, sooner but all I can do is promote the game and encourage people to come down to a game.

Numbers are up on all games this season but they're not as high as they could be because of external factors which are incredibly frustrating.

The needle is turning slowly but there's plenty of telltale signs that once we build some momentum numbers will be on the up and compounding will take care of the rest.

The other factor that shouldn't be discounted with our arguments is COVID destroyed quite a bit of momentum for GWS (and GC in some way) growth

I view them a bit as our lost years.

We just don't have the generational muscle memory to rely on as more established teams. A lot of Giants fans became disengaged also (not helped by the way we were playing/way we lost the 2019 final). Club is having to re-engage with these former attendees. You can put a circle around the region that had the longest duration of lockdowns north of the Murray and where footy isn't doing as well as other regions (western Sydney).

Canberra and Gold Coast were much more unscathed.

Still think the AFL and AFLNSW needs to invest more funding, resources and time into AFL in those suburbs though given the rise of NRL in Penrith, Parramatta and etc lately but they would be concerned if they did that, the Victorian clubs would revolt if GIANTS became a power-house as a result (just ask the Swans).

NRL moved in while we played away. NRL is watching the AFLs every move to counter it and my overall impression it has been very effective as it wields a lot of power up this way.

FWIW: Little context, I've actually lived in Canberra for 4-5 years so have been fortunate enough to attend a couple of GIANTS home matches in the ACT and have always had a little soft spot for them while living there so I do hope they grow into a very successful club in the future

I hope so too mate, lots of positive small telltale signs here that aren't immediately obvious to people not on the ground. Challenges are there but I don't think they're insurmountable based on my observations.

One of them which is quite pleasing is the atmosphere being built up by Giants fans, we might not have the largest crowd but they're getting loud. I am seeing posts about the atmosphere online and can see posts about how loud the crowd is by people watching the game from home.

Players and club has also commented on this shift.

and was not trying to put them down by any means,

All good mate

hence why they should play all their matches at ENGIE moving forward.

Definitely agree. 2 months with no games this year or 3 months with only 1 game is far too long.

I recently read a post from a footy fan that moved up north and the reason for not following the Giants was due to insufficient games in Sydney. Frustrating. On its own it's nothing major, cumulatively it all adds up.

Great win though by GIANTS last night btw

Thanks mate

 

[Giant YoYo]

This is what the giants and afl are dealing with in Sydney, I've always thought this to be the case through fox and particularly news.com.au promoting nrl so much more than afl, despite the afl being more popular on every metric.

Look at sen Sydney as another example, basically black banning any mention of the sport, despite having an afl fan as the CEO. John's obviously gets a dressing down from his mate Peter and it's straight in line, pulling any further mention of the AFL from his podcast. It's amazing the power v'landy's has over the Sydney and therefore national media (news limited) and it has no doubt damaged the code in nsw.

Fox red-faced after Matthew Johns spruiks AFL

The NRL and Fox Sports have been left embarrassed, with the face of Fox League, Matthew Johns, involved in an advertising campaign to promote the game’s great rival.

www.smh.com.au

View attachment 2041215View attachment 2041216

Yep, absolutely what we are dealing with up this way. I don't think they want to see what has happened in Eastern Sydney/Inner West with the uptick in footy happen in those regions happen out this way.

The more people that are aware the better, IMO.

The more footy fans that are aware and those that wish to can rally around and support us (I know, patience is probably wearing thin by some footy fans that things will get better) but would rather have footy fans be aware and support us if they wish to than continuously read about them knocking those of us Giants fans in Sydney down.

It isn't easy being a footy fan out this way, wanting to engage with other footy fans from other clubs/parts of the country and constantly reading negativity about us. It seems to come from all sides at times, lol.

 

[Walshawk]

It's more than alright mate. Here to share my on the ground account of how things are out this way. I follow one of the smallest clubs in the comp and am fully aware of our challenges out this way. Wish things would change for the better, sooner but all I can do is promote the game and encourage people to come down to a game.

Numbers are up on all games this season but they're not as high as they could be because of external factors which are incredibly frustrating.

The needle is turning slowly but there's plenty of telltale signs that once we build some momentum numbers will be on the up and compounding will take care of the rest.


I view them a bit as our lost years.

We just don't have the generational muscle memory to rely on as more established teams. A lot of Giants fans became disengaged also (not helped by the way we were playing/way we lost the 2019 final). Club is having to re-engage with these former attendees. You can put a circle around the region that had the longest duration of lockdowns north of the Murray and where footy isn't doing as well as other regions (western Sydney).

Canberra and Gold Coast were much more unscathed.


NRL moved in while we played away. NRL is watching the AFLs every move to counter it and my overall impression it has been very effective as it wields a lot of power up this way.


I hope so too mate, lots of positive small telltale signs here that aren't immediately obvious to people not on the ground. Challenges are there but I don't think they're insurmountable based on my observations.

One of them which is quite pleasing is the atmosphere being built up by Giants fans, we might not have the largest crowd but they're getting loud. I am seeing posts about the atmosphere online and can see posts about how loud the crowd is by people watching the game from home.

Players and club has also commented on this shift.

All good mate

Definitely agree. 2 months with no games this year or 3 months with only 1 game is far too long.

I recently read a post from a footy fan that moved up north and the reason for not following the Giants was due to insufficient games in Sydney. Frustrating. On its own it's nothing major, cumulatively it all adds up.

Thanks mate

With the Swans selling out most games there is a big opportunity for the Giants to play post Easter Show games @ SCG and gain some fans from the inner west and elsewhere who cannot get Swans tickets. Playing in Canberra is. It helping to build their Sydney fan base. Play Pies/Blues or Bombers there over Easter, then another game after. Could even host the Swans there (the have a better winning % there v Swans than Homebush).

 

[RedV3x]

With the Swans selling out most games there is a big opportunity for the Giants to play post Easter Show games @ SCG and gain some fans from the inner west and elsewhere who cannot get Swans tickets. Playing in Canberra is. It helping to build their Sydney fan base. Play Pies/Blues or Bombers there over Easter, then another game after. Could even host the Swans there (the have a better winning % there v Swans than Homebush).

The Giants could do worse than playing one game at the SCG.
If there was a superb response then I's be changing their name to Sydney Giants.
The Swans played the odd game at Homebush when it suited them.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

The Giants could do worse than playing one game at the SCG.
If there was a superb response then I's be changing their name to Sydney Giants.
The Swans played the odd game at Homebush when it suited them.

My understanding is that we cannot use the name Sydney Giants due to previous objections by the Sydney Swans, although I am unaware if it was based on any legal contractual reasons. In any case our club has been branding itself as GIANTS since at least 2018

 

[Giant YoYo]

My understanding is that we cannot use the name Sydney Giants due to previous objections by the Sydney Swans, although I am unaware if it was based on any legal contractual reasons.

Correct, pretty sure legally we are unable to be called the Sydney Giants.

In any case our club has been branding itself as GIANTS since at least 2018

While I and other Giants fans refer to us as the Giants everyone else still refers to us as GWS.

 

[Canberra Pear]

A Giant upset! GWS stuns Blues in boilover

The Giants have climbed back into the top eight with a huge upset win over Carlton

www.afl.com.au

All for expansion in NSW / QLD in the future (once Tasmania & Canberra enter the league to make 20 clubs) but reckon the AFL would be a little concerned over the attendance last night (11.7k) given as it was against one of the big VIC clubs as well and it's now Yr 12 for the Giants.

Would have imagined that if the match was played in Canberra, it would've have been a sold-out possibly (Canberra Pear could help with this).

Still think the preference would be the Giants to stay in NSW full-time though but the AFL needs to do heaps more to invest and promote the code in Western Sydney & the GIANTS club brand.

As Giant YoYo said, that's the Giants' biggest crowd against the Blues, so it is progress!

But it's also frustrating as a Canberran.

Giants Stadium has now held 33/34 games against the big four Victorian teams.

We continue to get the scraps. I pointed out that it's unfair Canberra doesn't get the big teams, and the number one comment is "build a bigger stadium".

But 11.4k, and every Carlton crowd before it, would easily have fit in Manuka. We absolutely would have sold that out. The only big four game we had also reached 15k, and the Blues would've been similar.

I guess what it really shows is that the Giants aren't big enough to cover both markets.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

As Giant YoYo said, that's the Giants' biggest crowd against the Blues, so it is progress!

But it's also frustrating as a Canberran.

Giants Stadium has now held 33/34 games against the big four Victorian teams.

We continue to get the scraps. I pointed out that it's unfair Canberra doesn't get the big teams, and the number one comment is "build a bigger stadium".

But 11.4k, and every Carlton crowd before it, would easily have fit in Manuka. We absolutely would have sold that out. The only big four game we had also reached 15k, and the Blues would've been similar.

I guess what it really shows is that the Giants aren't big enough to cover both markets.

As a Giants Foundation member, I am happy to see Canberra’s AFL team, the Giants, play in Canberra - whether it is against the big 4 Victorian team or a smaller AFL team is immaterial. The fact that all the Giants games in Canberra have been sold out, seem to indicate that most of Canberra do not have any issues with who the Giants are playing.

The Giants, our ACT Government and the AFL have a contract till at least 2032 for the Giants to play at 3 AFL games and a preseason game annually (in addition to 2 AFLW) game. There has been no move to change the status quo, and all parties seem happy with this 21 year long term deal that has existed since the Giants entered the AFL in 2012.

 

[Canberra Pear]

As a Giants Foundation member, I am happy to see Canberra’s AFL team, the Giants, play in Canberra - whether it is against the big 4 Victorian team or a smaller AFL team is immaterial. The fact that all the Giants games in Canberra have been sold out, seem to indicate that most of Canberra do not have any issues with who the Giants are playing.

Good for you, but for the majority of AFL fans who don't primarily support the Giants, we'd like to get more variety.

The ACT Government gives the Giants more than our own teams because "AFL fans travel more". But then we don't get big opposition teams.

We've hosted a single game against the Victorian big four, while Sydney has hosted 33. We've never hosted a game against West Coast. The five biggest membership bases never come to Canberra, they go to Sydney to boost their crowds. Not to mention that our previously largest draw was the Swans, which we also never get.

I'm happy for you that you get to see your team three times a year, but Giants fans still make up a small portion of AFL fandom in Canberra.

The Giants, our ACT Government and the AFL have a contract till at least 2032 for the Giants to play at 3 AFL games and a preseason game annually (in addition to 2 AFLW) game. There has been no move to change the status quo, and all parties seem happy with this 21 year long term deal that has existed since the Giants entered the AFL in 2012.

Do you just cut and paste this each time?

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Good for you, but for the majority of AFL fans who don't primarily support the Giants, we'd like to get more variety.

The ACT Government gives the Giants more than our own teams because "AFL fans travel more". But then we don't get big opposition teams.

We've hosted a single game against the Victorian big four, while Sydney has hosted 33. We've never hosted a game against West Coast. The five biggest membership bases never come to Canberra, they go to Sydney to boost their crowds. Not to mention that our previously largest draw was the Swans, which we also never get.

I'm happy for you that you get to see your team three times a year, but Giants fans still make up a small portion of AFL fandom in Canberra.



Do you just cut and paste this each time?

And obviously you know what the majority of the AFL fans in Canberra want? The fact that all our AFL games are sold out at Canberra show that the majority of AFL fans here are happy with the games that our home team, the Giants, play here.

And nope, I don’t cut and paste each time - the reality is this long term deal the Giants have with us will continue to at least 2032, and that is not going to change.

 

[Canberra Pear]

And obviously you know what the majority of the AFL fans in Canberra want? The fact that all our AFL games are sold out at Canberra show that the AFL fans here are happy with the games that our home team, the Giants, play here.

It doesn't mean that just because you've said it means that.

I go to each game, and will continue to, bit I'm not happy with the lack of opposition. I know others who also aren't happy, but will continue rocking up.

Our love of AFL shouldn't be confused with contentment with the status quo.

 

[Walshawk]

As Giant YoYo said, that's the Giants' biggest crowd against the Blues, so it is progress!

But it's also frustrating as a Canberran.

Giants Stadium has now held 33/34 games against the big four Victorian teams.

We continue to get the scraps. I pointed out that it's unfair Canberra doesn't get the big teams, and the number one comment is "build a bigger stadium".

But 11.4k, and every Carlton crowd before it, would easily have fit in Manuka. We absolutely would have sold that out. The only big four game we had also reached 15k, and the Blues would've been similar.

I guess what it really shows is that the Giants aren't big enough to cover both markets.

Showgrounds needed Carlton last night. The crowd was predominantly navy blue. If that was GWS v as SA/WA team the crowd would have been 6k.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Showgrounds needed Carlton last night. The crowd was predominantly navy blue. If that was GWS v as SA/WA team the crowd would have been 6k.

I know the Showgrounds need the bigger games, which is my point. Canberra misses out on the big teams to boost Sydney crowds. It's a lopsided "partnership".

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Showgrounds needed Carlton last night. The crowd was predominantly navy blue. If that was GWS v as SA/WA team the crowd would have been 6k.

Think the difference is if it was against an SA/WA team, the match wouldn't be played at that time-slot and would be more likely to be played in the afternoon or twilight timeslot so families have more chance of attending.

Would that have made the capacity the same as last night regardless of opposition, probably not, but would still get a 9-10k crowd I reckon IMO against smaller clubs.

Like Giant YoYo has mentioned though, the weather hasn't been the greatest for them lately (and the contested games as a result) for home matches but the AFL should really try in the future to provide GWS with more family-friendly timeslots in the future perhaps.

 

[Call Me Cake]

How would there be a legal barring on using the name of the city? It's the city name. The Swans do not have a copyright or monopoly on a city.

Secondly, I always thought they should've been called Western Sydney/Western Giants.

GWS reduces the team and brand to an acronym that no one outside of the AFL would understand, and it makes a mockery of those that do by having to always point out that it means "Greater", when literally anyone with a brain would know Western Sydney would include the Greater region. There's no need to be so specific.

 

[Bjo187]

Think the difference is if it was against an SA/WA team, the match wouldn't be played at that time-slot and would be more likely to be played in the afternoon or twilight timeslot so families have more chance of attending.

Would that have made the capacity the same as last night regardless of opposition, probably not, but would still get a 9-10k crowd I reckon IMO against smaller clubs.

Like Giant YoYo has mentioned though, the weather hasn't been the greatest for them lately (and the contested games as a result) for home matches but the AFL should really try in the future to provide GWS with more family-friendly timeslots in the future perhaps.

I was saying earlier, 3.20pm games on a Saturday, so it gets on 7 main in Sydney, is on a day when there is no other sport on free to air tv in Sydney and it's a good timeslot for their family orientated fan base. The ratings last night were very good because it was on the main channel up there.

4.30pm games get shoved off to 7 mate coz they clash with the news.

 

[Aussie in exile]

A Giant upset! GWS stuns Blues in boilover

The Giants have climbed back into the top eight with a huge upset win over Carlton

www.afl.com.au

All for expansion in NSW / QLD in the future (once Tasmania & Canberra enter the league to make 20 clubs) but reckon the AFL would be a little concerned over the attendance last night (11.7k) given as it was against one of the big VIC clubs as well and it's now Yr 12 for the Giants.

Would have imagined that if the match was played in Canberra, it would've have been a sold-out possibly (Canberra Pear could help with this).

Still think the preference would be the Giants to stay in NSW full-time though but the AFL needs to do heaps more to invest and promote the code in Western Sydney & the GIANTS club brand.

Kids went free as well

 

[PaythePerryman]

How would there be a legal barring on using the name of the city? It's the city name. The Swans do not have a copyright or monopoly on a city.

Secondly, I always thought they should've been called Western Sydney/Western Giants.

GWS reduces the team and brand to an acronym that no one outside of the AFL would understand, and it makes a mockery of those that do by having to always point out that it means "Greater", when literally anyone with a brain would know Western Sydney would include the Greater region. There's no need to be so specific.

Agree.
Western Sydney Giants would be better.

Going to the stadium when it has around 12k feels pretty good tbf.

I know it doesn't look amazing on the broadcast...hey if we double that number in 10 years it'll be an absolute vibe.

I don't think they expected there to be a Richmond or Collingwood sized club in 10 years. It's a generational and real estate play.

 

[Walshawk]

Agree.
Western Sydney Giants would be better.

Going to the stadium when it has around 12k feels pretty good tbf.

I know it doesn't look amazing on the broadcast...hey if we double that number in 10 years it'll be an absolute vibe.

I don't think they expected there to be a Richmond or Collingwood sized club in 10 years. It's a generational and real estate play.

According to an article from 2010 that the AFL was expecting crowds of 15k - 17k for the Giants.

 

[Aussie in exile]

According to an article from 2010 that the AFL was expecting crowds of 15k - 17k for the Giants.

The suits/bean counters must be pulling their hair out at AFL house with GWS as its obvisously not going to plan.
Was this not Fat Andy's plan to put a club in Western Sydney?

 

[Teen Wolf]

According to an article from 2010 that the AFL was expecting crowds of 15k - 17k for the Giants.

By when? Oh wait, the error-riddled SMH article you keep quoting didn't say.

Fact is the 15k figure was a goal for first year membership, and a crappy journo (plus a couple co-workers who mindlessly repeated him) misreported that as an attendance expectation.

 

[Rob]

According to an article from 2010 that the AFL was expecting crowds of 15k - 17k for the Giants.

To be fair they were on track for that until covid hit. Which hit them more than any other club - probably to be expected given they never had many rusted on fans.

Also shows the lunacy of the 2 month break of home games every year. If any team needs the regularity of home games every fortnight it's the Giants.

 

[Cmarsh]

To be fair they were on track for that until covid hit. Which hit them more than any other club - probably to be expected given they never had many rusted on fans.

Also shows the lunacy of the 2 month break of home games every year. If any team needs the regularity of home games every fortnight it's the Giants.

I think most in this thread agree that the Easter show gap needs addressing and is not helpful in building a fan base.

The thing that frustrates me though is there seems to be little effort by the club or the AFL to come up with creative solutions to deal with it.

There are too many well paid people resigning to shrugging their shoulders about the situation.