Rules Harry McKay concussion loophole/issue

[Chadwiko]

Harry McKay

10

Harry Mckay

Age

26

Ht

200cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.9

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

2.4

2star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.4

5star

D

6.6

1star

K

4.6

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

2star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.8

3star

G

2.0

5star

looked for all money like he was out COLD on the deck after an inadvertent headclash in a marking contest.

But the Carlton doctor was in the rooms treating a different player so apparently didn't see the footage and didn't pull him from the ground for a concussion assessment.

Surely this loophole isn't that simple? "Oh our Doctor was busy so we left our concussed player on the field for 7 minutes"?!

Expect we'll be hearing more about this one...

 

[Snarls Barkley]

It’s an easy fix. Independent AFL doctors. AFL are too poor though and won’t do anything until forced.

Seen it multiple times this year when there has been a big head knock, trainer/doctor tells player to come off, player says they are fine and staying on and there is nothing that can be done. Cameron the most famous example but happened quite a few times.

Should just have the AFL doctors contact the umpires, play stops like a blood rule. Player goes off and does the test and the game moves on. Pretty simple.

 

[HTPunter]

It’s an easy fix. Independent AFL doctors. AFL are too poor though and won’t do anything until forced.

Seen it multiple times this year when there has been a big head knock, trainer/doctor tells player to come off, player says they are fine and staying on and there is nothing that can be done. Cameron the most famous example but happened quite a few times.

Should just have the AFL doctors contact the umpires, play stops like a blood rule. Player goes off and does the test and the game moves on. Pretty simple.

Considering what concussion is rumoured to cost the AFL, it’s a small cost really. I’m assuming they’d have to be some sort of neurospecialist which does take away from the rest of us but definitely makes sense for the AFL, even if it cost them a couple of mil that’s one lawsuit.

 

[Kappa]

"Look, the important thing to remember here, and I'm very comfortable with that, is that there are two separate and independent actions at play here. You have to look at this from a holistic point of view, and we'll continue to grow and learn from every situation, as I've always said we pride ourselves on being very open and transparent."

Does that answer your question ?

 

[HTPunter]

Current player attitudes do frustrate me a bit.

We are seeing our entire game change & the players are complaining too. Yet they don’t take concussion (or education) seriously, happy to stay out there when clearly not right.

If they don’t change their attitudes then we will have a game that goes even further away from the contact sport that we know.

If a player stays out there and gets another head knock, and then in 5 years ends up like Brad Sheppard or Dan Venables, whose fault is it then?

 

[samFFC]

Have to get independent doctors AND fine the clubs AND final warning. If they do it twice, they lose 2 premiership points.
The clubs will not respond to any other suggestion or punishment.
Same as Heeney/tribunal issue, they will spend whatever needed on lawyers etc., that is not a cost to them, needs to have tangible impact on the ladder position.

F--king stupidity.

 

[Outtatym]

"Look, the important thing to remember here, and I'm very comfortable with that, is that there are two separate and independent actions are at play here. You have to look at this from a holistic point of view, and we'll continue to grow and learn from every situation, as I've always said we pride ourselves on being very open and transparent."

Does that answer your question ?

'club doctors have never been better'

 

[samFFC]

Considering what concussion is rumoured to cost the AFL, it’s a small cost really. I’m assuming they’d have to be some sort of neurospecialist which does take away from the rest of us but definitely makes sense for the AFL, even if it cost them a couple of mil that’s one lawsuit.

Agreed.
Even if you paid a Doctor 10k for the day, for every game. You could add $1 per ticket and you more than cover the cost, let alone in saving liability/compenssation down the track, as you say.

 

[samFFC]

Current player attitudes do frustrate me a bit.

We are seeing our entire game change & the players are complaining too. Yet they don’t take concussion (or education) seriously, happy to stay out there when clearly not right.

If they don’t change their attitudes then we will have a game that goes even further away from the contact sport that we know.

If a player stays out there and gets another head knock, and then in 5 years ends up like Brad Sheppard or Dan Venables, whose fault is it then?

It's the club, the league, and the doctors.

By definition, the concussed player is not able to make decisions for themselves at that point in time. Doesn't matter what they say, there is a duty of care. It would not be defensible in court to say 'the patient said they were fine so I listened to them'.

 

[HTPunter]

It's the club, the league, and the doctors.

By definition, the concussed player is not able to make decisions for themselves at that point in time. Doesn't matter what they say, there is a duty of care. It would not be defensible in court to say 'the patient said they were fine so I listened to them'.

Even if the player refuses to come off like Harry did?

I mean we know now he “passed” but he definitely failed 2 key instant criteria (protective mechanism when falling, and coordination afterwards - Charlie held him for a good couple of seconds once he stood up). So we are still on very murky ground with concussion. How they can ignore the public guidelines for instant fails I don’t know

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

Stewart last week. McKay this week. Two key players for vic clubs = nothing to see here from the AFL.

 

[420]

Will be fascinating to watch Kane attempt to squirm out of this one. Paying $1.01 for corpo drivel that explains nothing

 

[wcv1475]

What about the Krueger, Newcombe head clash on Saturday, Collingwood took Krueger off for the HIA and he is now out under the protocols can anyone confirm if Newcombe was even assessed?

 

[samFFC]

What about the Krueger, Newcombe head clash on Saturday, Collingwood took Krueger off for the HIA and he is now out under the protocols can anyone confirm if Newcombe was even assessed?

Don't think so mate.
He kicked a goal late, and wasn't on the list of Injuries in the report.

 

[samFFC]

Even if the player refuses to come off like Harry did?

I mean we know now he “passed” but he definitely failed 2 key instant criteria (protective mechanism when falling, and coordination afterwards - Charlie held him for a good couple of seconds once he stood up). So we are still on very murky ground with concussion. How they can ignore the public guidelines for instant fails I don’t know

It's irrelevant if the player refuses to come off.
If they are bleeding -> ump stops the game -> player has to go off
If this occurs -> ump stops the game -> player has to go off.

It's about player safety. Blood rule and concussion rule don't have to be different.


I totally agree with you. The test becomes irrelevant then.

 

[bradfisher14]

He went off for the HIA and was cleared.

Close the thread.

 

[samFFC]

He went off for the HIA and was cleared.

Close the thread.

No.
He stayed on the ground after the incident.

The issue is not having an immediate assessment.

 

[danielnajdek]

My team takes concussion seriously. We've had about 15 guys miss with concussion protocols this year plus 2 have retired.

 

[Underarm]

Fwiw didn't have a concussion in the end.

 

[bluespooner]

Don't think so mate.
He kicked a goal late, and wasn't on the list of Injuries in the report.

Krueger has a history of concussions. Newcombe on the other hand, has a hard head, a bit like marvellous Marvin Hagler.

 

[ApplecrossWC]

Fwiw didn't have a concussion in the end.

He's important to have in the team for next week

 

[Handsome.B.Wonderful]

Harry McKay

10

Harry Mckay

Age

26

Ht

200cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.9

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

2.4

2star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.4

5star

D

6.6

1star

K

4.6

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

2star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.8

3star

G

2.0

5star

looked for all money like he was out COLD on the deck after an inadvertent headclash in a marking contest.

But the Carlton doctor was in the rooms treating a different player so apparently didn't see the footage and didn't pull him from the ground for a concussion assessment.

Surely this loophole isn't that simple? "Oh our Doctor was busy so we left our concussed player on the field for 7 minutes"?!

Expect we'll be hearing more about this one...



View attachment 2054754

If anyone has watched the podcast put up by the McKay brothers, they would realize that diagnosing either of them with a concussion would be a challenge for any doctor.

They seem to exhibit signs of concussion most of the time.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Fwiw didn't have a concussion in the end.

I don't think that's worth anything in regards to the conversation.
Not having a crack at you, but the result of the test is secondary to the issue.

Today's incident was a shitshow of coincidence that has highlighted a larger issue. As far as I know, the club doctors are the only ones who can assess the footage and decide on a concussion test. What happens when your doctors are down in the rooms and occupied? How much can the other club staff do?

Harry absolutely should have come off for a test straight away. I'm not sure that any other club would pull a player off the ground like that, without the advice of club doctors. The AFL simply HAS to have independent docs on hand for concussion and any other potential liability issues.

Having said that l, if the AFL looks into this and finds we were negligent, then we should cop whatever comes from it.

 

[Chadwiko]

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

My team takes concussion seriously. We've had about 15 guys miss with concussion protocols this year plus 2 have retired.

I don't think concussion should be a contest.
And I hope that no Dees supporters jump in with comments about Brayshaw. The conversation needs to be above that.