Hawks need a clue!

[andrew coombs]

The main issue with many Hawthorn supporters is that past history tells us that statements such as "All positions are under review" and "These blokes are playing for their football futures" have been heard before and mostly not acted upon. The fact that it has required a shocking season like this for the coaching staff to concede that there are many players on the list that arent up to it cannot fill any Hawk fan with an optimistic outlook, especially given the coaches' apparent intention to continue. Richmond and Adelaide have acted proactively and in doing so have given the supporters of those clubs some hope that change is in motion. All we are hearing are well worn statements that the people in charge know what their doing. Because of our current position not many are sure this is true. A lot of supporter anger is generated by this lack of decisive comment and action from the club.

 

[tige19]

Originally posted by The Candy Man
Look, I've said it before and I'll say it again. I've never made it secret that I am not on the Board, but am very close to certain people who are ..... some high profile people ... so I have the luxury of having access to certain information. Some I can share, some I can't ... simple as that.

If you have been reading my posts since the beginning of the season you will notice a softening of my views. A lot of people were talking Grand Finals, etc, and I continued to make the point that we have certain problems and aren't as good as some people think.

Unfortunately, as the season began to unfold and it became obvious we were going to struggle, some people in this forum have made some extremely ill-informed comments about certain people, and the way the Board is performing.

Some people on this forum wouldn't stop short of sacking everyone, knocking down the clubrooms, and starting from scratch. All I have been trying to do is present a balanced argument ... the more extreme people have become, the more I have tried to point out that Hawthorn is a GREAT club, with certain advantages and assets other clubs would love to have.

Once again, if you have read my posts, you would have read that I have said the Board has focussed most of their attention on building the club financially, to put us in a situation where we don't have to wake up each day facing extinction like some others are doing. As you may recall, several years ago the club almost died, now it is one of the most solvent clubs in the AFL.

Believe it or not people, the direction of the Board AS WE SPEAK is on our performances on-field. They are addressing the player list, the coaching staff, the recruitment of players, everything pertaining to improving our performance on-field. Having Don Scott hovering around causing trouble is not helping.

I have NEVER said the playing list is adequate, nor have I ever said Peter Schwab is our best option as coach. If you think I have, then show me where I have said this.

I'll tell you one thing about myself ... I look for positives. I see nothing to be gained by coming on this forum and stating ad nauseum that the club is crap, the players are crap, the board is crap, the coaches are crap, etc. It achieves nothing and only makes people more upset than they already are. If all you do is look for negatives, that's all you will find.

I've tried to tell people that all these problem areas are being addressed but it appears some don't want to know. I have come to the realisation that there are some people on this forum who are taking great delight in our poor performances. They don't want the club to succeed because it's more fun to knock than is to win.

And finally, I am growing tired of people questioning my credibility. If you don't like what I write then ignore it. Simple as that.

Is this what Hawthorn Football Club has come to??? If someone like your self has any 'Pull' at Hawthorn then we are in dire straits .
You come across to me as someone who would skirt the packs in a footy match, someone who would go and kiss Schwabs bum after a flogging, someone who week after week of losses say everything will be ok.

You typify the attitude of those who run the footy club at the moment, i swear all you blokes must wear skirts and play barbies the night before the game the whole lot of you make me sick.
No other club in this bloody competition would put up with the crap Hawthorn supporters have put up with the last couple of years. Every single season Schwab will pump up the side ' we will win flags' ' Its am exciting time for the club ' **** **** **** its a joke the whole place is a joke from top to bottom.

I know that Don Scott isnt the long term answer but for gods sake if you let that bloke lose on the footy club there would be a hell of alot more guts,determanation and FOOTBALL knowledge on the board and through the whole footy club.
We need a hard as nails coach that is a must, Schwab is like the board his weak, struggles to make tough decisions and has that nice guy attitude that blokes like Matthews,Pagan,Malthouse,Worsfold,Sheedy,Laidley wouldnt spit at.
Mate if you are on the board i have enough pants to go around for all of you blokes all you need to do is PM me and ill be happy to drive down to Glenferrie and pass them around.
Oh and by the way do you honestly think that the Assets our football club keeps the supporters excited, you clearly have no idea and some of the crap you mumble makes me sick.

cheers babe

 

[Buster the hawk]

Re: Positives

Originally posted by bring on draft
The key element you are missing is the bit about "full, injury free preseasons" It makes a huge difference! Look at Jeff white last year and this year! Jonathan Hay is in the same boat and a Hawthorn side with Hay firing is a totally different side altogether! It realeases Jacobs, Croad and Smith to play on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th best defenders. Hay is the linchpin to the success of Hawthorn in 2005!

GO HAWKS

PS. What do you think Candyman?

I admire your optimism & i too think we have a solid backline when they are all in form but as far Hay being the linchpin of a successful 2005 campaign ,i mean who is going to kick our goals ?With the output we have had from our key position forwards over the last 2 or 3 seasons ,we would've been better off planting two large cyprus trees on our HF line instead of Holland & Barker at least the opposition backline would have something to get around as they repeatedly rebounded the ball out of defense .Nathan Thompson last week was the first example of a Hawthorn player providing any real target up forward for a long time .Considering Holland & Barker are both still contracted next year & highly paid ,this has to be sorted before we can think about success again .

 

[Atticus]

To Candy Man

Look, I've said it before and I'll say it again. I've never made it secret that I am not on the Board, but am very close to certain people who are

So, unless you have have some influence with these people you are 'very close' to, you have no power down at the club at all. This of course makes your "I think you would be surprised ..... very surprised" comment pretty stupid.

Alternatively, if you do have some influence with this board connection of yours, please stop. The club needs some fresh ideas.

some people in this forum have made some extremely ill-informed comments about certain people, and the way the Board is performing.

This would be the same board that less than a year ago reappointed a coach who is clearly out of his depth.

I have tried to point out that Hawthorn is a GREAT club, with certain advantages and assets other clubs would love to have.

Hawthorn is a great club, and as you have continually pointed out they are doing well financially. In fact, if there was a ladder for financial perfomance over the past few years, the Hawks would be way up there. Unfortunately, I and I imagine many other poster here are actually more concerned with on field football performance and it is here that things have gone seriously wrong.

Once again, if you have read my posts, you would have read that I have said the Board has focussed most of their attention on building the club financially,

You have indeed said this over and over. I know that being financially viable is important, and I am yet to read a post from any poster that suggests the board has done a bad job in this area. But even you must acknowledge, this is not a board that has not made mistakes in regard to actual football activities or does your connection to "some people......some high profile people" on the board blur your view?


I have NEVER said the playing list is adequate, nor have I ever said Peter Schwab is our best option as coach. If you think I have, then show me where I have said this.

A little sensitive? I actually didn't mention anything about Peter Scwab or your views on him in my post.

I'll tell you one thing about myself ... I look for positives.

You certainly do. Unfortunately, after reading many of your posts this is how I perceive your view, "Yes, we got flogged again, but its OK, and we've got money in the bank!" I suspect that I'm not alone either. Mind you, this year there have not been too many on field positives to comment on.

I've tried to tell people that all these problem areas are being addressed but it appears some don't want to know.

This must be frustrating. You "tell" them and they just will not listen. And you know people on the board! Silly people, they will just not be told.

[And finally, I am growing tired of people questioning my credibility

Well if people keep on questioning it maybe you need to have a look at what you are saying. Comments such as "Jumping to a conclusion there aren't you? Why do you assume I have no "power" within the Hawthorn Football Club? I think you would be surprised ..... very surprised" don't help. That is just plain dumb

 

[Grendel]

Originally posted by The Candy Man
Look, I've said it before and I'll say it again. I've never made it secret that I am not on the Board, but am very close to certain people who are ..... some high profile people ... so I have the luxury of having access to certain information. Some I can share, some I can't ... simple as that.

If the knowledge can only extend to "changes are being made, things aren't that bad" etc then from my pov it's hardly a point worth sharing.

What changes? What reviews, why isn't it 'that bad' that we shouldn't worry (those of us that are without access to 'certain people.. high profile people').

I have no reason to doubt what you say C-man, yet I have no reason or proof thus far in what I'm hearing/reading etc from other sources that anything is happening other than nobody wants Don Scott stirring things up.

Fwiw, I'm quite happy that Don Scott's stirring things up. Because imo it's not just THIS season, it's around ten of the last dozen that haven't been up to scratch.

This may be the nadir. but it may not.

If you have been reading my posts since the beginning of the season you will notice a softening of my views. A lot of people were talking Grand Finals, etc, and I continued to make the point that we have certain problems and aren't as good as some people think.

I've read your posts with interest and that's a bit of (imo) a turn-around from a lot of what you have previously said. That with luck on injury and a couple of recruits we'll be competitive again next season.

Others here think that we have a very suspect list, precious little of KP coming through, no pace, poor skills and are to light (me being one of them).

I wasn't even talking finals at the start of this season, yet I wasn't talking wooden spoons either.

Unfortunately, as the season began to unfold and it became obvious we were going to struggle, some people in this forum have made some extremely ill-informed comments about certain people, and the way the Board is performing.

Which people? What comments? How IS the board performing?

I see a bloke leave before his contract is due to expire because it's a 'great opportuinty' for him. By the same token no talk of Schwab being paid out/asked to step down because he 'has a contract'?

Double standard bang right there.

Again, I'm not priveliged to know the inner workings yet when I hear of men like Scott, Cook and the late Ivan Moore all upset/concerned by the state of well being of the club then I am as well.

Some people on this forum wouldn't stop short of sacking everyone, knocking down the clubrooms, and starting from scratch. All I have been trying to do is present a balanced argument ... the more extreme people have become, the more I have tried to point out that Hawthorn is a GREAT club, with certain advantages and assets other clubs would love to have.

Nobody is denying that we are a great club and EVERYONES wish if for us to REMAIN a great club.

That isn't going to happen unless ON-FIELD results improve, that we can bring in the next generation of Hawthorn supporters. That we can keep the fluctuating members from year after year after year.

All that comes from on-field success. Not from how much assets we currently have in the bank.

Fwiw, precious few hear want to tear the clubrooms down (and I don't think I've seen anyone call for it, have you?).

What the do want is a total overhaul of the football dept, a review of the board and coaching staff, medical dept and fitness.

Yea, it's a big review but given our results not just this season but for a long time now, an overdue one.

Once again, if you have read my posts, you would have read that I have said the Board has focussed most of their attention on building the club financially, to put us in a situation where we don't have to wake up each day facing extinction like some others are doing. As you may recall, several years ago the club almost died, now it is one of the most solvent clubs in the AFL.

Solvent for how long? This season, next, two more?

I'm more than happy we are currently in a strong position finacially. What I'm worried about is five, ten, twenty years down the track unless we start to achieve ON-FIELD (again it gets back to that) success.

Believe it or not people, the direction of the Board AS WE SPEAK is on our performances on-field. They are addressing the player list, the coaching staff, the recruitment of players, everything pertaining to improving our performance on-field. Having Don Scott hovering around causing trouble is not helping.

You are saying the board is directing it's efforts towards that now.

I say that it's a poor reflection on the board that it's taken THIS long to do so.

That Scott is (and has been from reports) agitating for a more clear cut focus onto ON-FIELD matters for sometime is something I welcome IF it can indeed force the current board to do so. Nobody is asking you to be happy with Scott. Nobody can deny others like myself the RIGHT to have and/or give backing to Scott IF we as members think he would be a better alternative.

I have NEVER said the playing list is adequate, nor have I ever said Peter Schwab is our best option as coach. If you think I have, then show me where I have said this.

You have said that allowing for a better run with injury and a couple of recruits that on-field results will improve (words to that effect).

You have also made claims that things aren't as bad as they appear, that this year will be left to history and things wont be as bad again in future.

Well, on that I hope you are proven right.

Yet we again get back the basic difference between your viewpoint and mine.

That is, unless a crucial acceptance of the gravity of our situation is made by the current board/those in charge that we need to become a whole lot smarter in ALL operations of the HFC that it (success) wont be coming for a long time yet.

I'll tell you one thing about myself ... I look for positives. I see nothing to be gained by coming on this forum and stating ad nauseum that the club is crap, the players are crap, the board is crap, the coaches are crap, etc. It achieves nothing and only makes people more upset than they already are. If all you do is look for negatives, that's all you will find.

Right now I'm looking for positives and current finacial success aside there is WHAT exactly?

I've asked you this before to NAME the positives. You haven't and continue to post the same "things are being discussed/reviewed".

Sorry c-man but I'm tired of it. It's been a long season a bloody shocking one on AND off field.

All I want now is for the club to make a decision that a season like this one WONT ever be tolerated again.

If that means terminating underperforming coaches early in their contracts, so be it.

If it means savaging the list to remove lairs, underperforming or not up to it players, so be it.

If it means removing a terrific president for the time that he came on board but may not be what is required for the future, then so be it.

I've tried to tell people that all these problem areas are being addressed but it appears some don't want to know. I have come to the realisation that there are some people on this forum who are taking great delight in our poor performances. They don't want the club to succeed because it's more fun to knock than is to win.

Absolute garbage.

Everyone hear wants nothing NOTHING but the best for the HFC and it's future.

That we don't agree with YOUR viewpoint on how this may best be brought about leaves you petulant and spouting empty rhetoric that many have heard before and have yet to witness in any implementation.

My feelings are in everyway as valid as yours (or anyones elses) on what I feel is required for the BENEFIT of the Hawthorn Football Club.

It's supposed to be the family club and everyone made feel welcome.

Well tell you what c-man, when I'm told 'dont you worry, we will do what's best for us and you just sit there and be patient' is when I worry.

And finally, I am growing tired of people questioning my credibility. If you don't like what I write then ignore it. Simple as that.

Nothing against your credibility or your right to freedom of expression of your viewpoints.

HOWEVER, if you don't like the replies your getting OR the right of OTHERS to express THEIR feelings in EXACTLY the same manner...

then take your own advice c-man and ignore it.

 

[tige19]

Great post Grendel, it will be interesting to see how C-Man replies considering the guy has a bit of pull around the joint i expect a fairly in depth well informed post, if not then id presume he is full of complete crap.

cheers

 

[bring on draft]

c-man

Very harsh you blokes on the c-man! He obviously has Hawthorn's best interests at heart and you blokes are just ripping into him! I'll support ya c-man!!! It is not the Hawthorn way to eat our own. Have a good hard look boys!

Look at the positives boys, great games for Croad and hay on the weekend!!! Good work boys!

 

[My Man Croad]

Is that the best you can find???

The crowd attendance said it all. Supporters have had enough. 11,000 in attendance when Hawthorn Members are at 30,000.
What a JOKE!!! I have no desire to attend another match this year along with about 20,000 other members.

There will be ONLY One positive to come out of this year and that is the DEPARTURE of one PETER SCHWAB.

I AM BEGGING FOR CHANGE NOW.

 

[bring on draft]

Schwabby

Personally I think sacking Schwabby is a bit of a cop out. By doing that we're saying he's to blame for everything. Stevie Wonder can see he's not! I'm not saying every decision he's made has been right, but I think he deserves to be given until the end of next year to be judged. Look at Melbourne they were in exactly the same position as us last year and everyone was calling for Daniher's head. Now they are applauding him?!?!? Give Schwabby the chance to redeem himself next year I say!

GO Hawks!!

 

[andrew coombs]

Re: Schwabby

Originally posted by bring on draft
Personally I think sacking Schwabby is a bit of a cop out. By doing that we're saying he's to blame for everything. Stevie Wonder can see he's not! I'm not saying every decision he's made has been right, but I think he deserves to be given until the end of next year to be judged. Look at Melbourne they were in exactly the same position as us last year and everyone was calling for Daniher's head. Now they are applauding him?!?!? Give Schwabby the chance to redeem himself next year I say!



GO Hawks!!

Spare me....please.

 

[Ramma]

I read this thread and can understand the points of opinion being given from all parties, but we are all on the same track - we ALL want to see our club once again become successful on-field as well as off......but I have one question to ask everyone, and the one question that shows just how serious you are in your posts.
The club, now more than ever, needs to see your support at games - you don't have to like what you see, but your non-attendance WILL affect the club for getting the block-buster games next year (if we still get 40-50,000 at home games when we're on the bottom of the ladder, it shows we'll be there with huge numbers when we do start winning), for the potential sponsors, for the apathy people will show towards us.....whether you have bought your membership or not. Not even 12,000 went on Sunday - how many of you posting here, giving us your opinions, standing on your right to 'have your say' are actually backing it up with the direct support to your club?? Mmmmm??

 

[bring on draft]

Loyalty

Mr Coombs,

May I bring your attention to page 90 of todays Herald Sun. Just read the first half of the "at the bar" section, the conversation between Jon Anderson and Mark Robinson. Hopefully that might turn your views around.

GO HAWKS!

 

[andrew coombs]

This column was full of its usual hollow, meaningless rhetoric. To hope that the opinions of Mark Robinson( for whom I have little respect ) and Jon Anderson would change my opinion is a long stretch indeed. When Anderson says that he hopes that Peter Scwabb remains as Hawthorn coach he reveals;

A) He does not support Hawthorn
B) He has little or no idea of the current problems at the club.

If you wish to use the words of others to dispute my opinions I suggest staying clear of the tabloids.

 

[tige19]

Re: Loyalty

Originally posted by bring on draft
Mr Coombs,

May I bring your attention to page 90 of todays Herald Sun. Just read the first half of the "at the bar" section, the conversation between Jon Anderson and Mark Robinson. Hopefully that might turn your views around.

GO HAWKS!

I take it those 2 journos are your idols in life and everything they say or have a opinion about is correct!!.

Mate your slowly becoming the most annoying poster on this forum with your little 4 liner comebacks and ever so simple views on the club and where it is heading.

You could only be a Northern Knights footballer haha, soft about everything .

cheers

 

[Hawk4Life]

Re: Schwabby

Originally posted by bring on draft
Personally I think sacking Schwabby is a bit of a cop out. By doing that we're saying he's to blame for everything. Stevie Wonder can see he's not! I'm not saying every decision he's made has been right, but I think he deserves to be given until the end of next year to be judged. Look at Melbourne they were in exactly the same position as us last year and everyone was calling for Daniher's head. Now they are applauding him?!?!? Give Schwabby the chance to redeem himself next year I say!

GO Hawks!!

How can you compare to Melbourne...they have made finals more times than Hawthorn under their respective coaches. Melbourne have played finals nearly every second year!!! Schwab has had 5 years; during that time drafting players that he thought would win a premiership! How can you be so far off in your own assessment?
...His classic line is 'we'll assess the list and see where we're at'. Well you know what? I know where Hawthorn are at...16th. It's time Schwab started declaring in his press conferences what he really thinks....a bit of honesty and less of the cliches wouldn't go astray....

 

[saaam]

Re: Schwabby

Originally posted by bring on draft
Personally I think sacking Schwabby is a bit of a cop out. By doing that we're saying he's to blame for everything. Stevie Wonder can see he's not! I'm not saying every decision he's made has been right, but I think he deserves to be given until the end of next year to be judged. Look at Melbourne they were in exactly the same position as us last year and everyone was calling for Daniher's head. Now they are applauding him?!?!? Give Schwabby the chance to redeem himself next year I say!

GO Hawks!!

No. Change nothing and we'll get the same results again. Schwab should never have been coaching this season anyway. Watch our gameplan, it is so flawed it would be funny if I didn't support the HFC.