Hawthorn has lost it's chance at dominance

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

They are simply not as good, nor as young as we think.

Mitchell, Burgoyne (at his Port best), Guerra and Sewell have a few good years left, but are they gonna get any better?
Osborne and Bateman are really struggling.
The improvement for Hawthorn must come from Rioli, Young, Birchall, Ellis and Lewis, and these guys are not the most talented bunch. Even Lewis, who looked like becoming a stud midfielder a few years ago has really dropped off.
Rioli, Burgoyne, Franklin, Hodge and Mitchell are as good as any best five in the comp at their very best, but there are some real concerns about the depth behind these guys.
GOd forbid, coz i love watching him, but if Buddy was injured for the season, the Hawks would be a bottom four side.
No real ruck potential, a decent defending prospect (Stratton) an undersized key defender (Gibson) and no real up and comers that we don't know about.
They are terrible travelers and may be the most moody side in the competition. They play when they feel like it.

How did this list look so unbelievably good only 2 years ago??
They are primed to bounce back next season, but I just don't see where all the improvement can come from. Unless Rioli turns into Ablett and Lewis becomes a Bartel, they are in trouble.

 

[Simmonds2Hislop]

Lethal's right.

We need to stop calling dynasties in advance.

 

[LordJimmy]

But but we were right about Geelong!

Which gives us a... um... 1% success rate?

 

[CATTERS09]

squawkers are in pause and stuck in 08, they walk around like they're millionares and their coach talks em up like he's also stuck in 08 - i knew they'd lose today after the coach and captain claimed they can beat anybody in the 8. Well fellas you couldnt get passed freo so maybe join t-tuck and enjoy the off season.....

 

[Spud Regus]

They are simply not as good, nor as young as we think.

Mitchell, Burgoyne (at his Port best), Guerra and Sewell have a few good years left, but are they gonna get any better?
Osborne and Bateman are really struggling.
The improvement for Hawthorn must come from Rioli, Young, Birchall, Ellis and Lewis, and these guys are not the most talented bunch. Even Lewis, who looked like becoming a stud midfielder a few years ago has really dropped off.
Rioli, Burgoyne, Franklin, Hodge and Mitchell are as good as any best five in the comp at their very best, but there are some real concerns about the depth behind these guys.
GOd forbid, coz i love watching him, but if Buddy was injured for the season, the Hawks would be a bottom four side.
No real ruck potential, a decent defending prospect (Stratton) an undersized key defender (Gibson) and no real up and comers that we don't know about.
They are terrible travelers and may be the most moody side in the competition. They play when they feel like it.

How did this list look so unbelievably good only 2 years ago??
They are primed to bounce back next season, but I just don't see where all the improvement can come from. Unless Rioli turns into Ablett and Lewis becomes a Bartel, they are in trouble.

You have some fair points but its a big call to say we're in trouble.

Collingwood haven't had stars on every line of their side til probably this year.
When fringe players improve, so do the whole side.
The likes of Mitchell, Sewell etc going to another level with their game isn't the key to our side improving. We have far too many fringe players who need to improve and we're in desperate need of a quality ruckman and/or big bodied full back (i.e. Tarrant)

 

[hamG]

I don't think it is overly complicated. The gap between their best and worst is massive. They are still lacking in key defenders, rucks and small forwards (goal scoring options who are not Buddy & Roughy). They need some sort of 2010 Brad Green to pop up. And maybe a couple of left footers.

 

[SA HAWK]

They are simply not as good, nor as young as we think.

Mitchell, Burgoyne (at his Port best), Guerra and Sewell have a few good years left, but are they gonna get any better?
Osborne and Bateman are really struggling.
The improvement for Hawthorn must come from Rioli, Young, Birchall, Ellis and Lewis, and these guys are not the most talented bunch. Even Lewis, who looked like becoming a stud midfielder a few years ago has really dropped off.
Rioli, Burgoyne, Franklin, Hodge and Mitchell are as good as any best five in the comp at their very best, but there are some real concerns about the depth behind these guys.
GOd forbid, coz i love watching him, but if Buddy was injured for the season, the Hawks would be a bottom four side.
No real ruck potential, a decent defending prospect (Stratton) an undersized key defender (Gibson) and no real up and comers that we don't know about.
They are terrible travelers and may be the most moody side in the competition. They play when they feel like it.

How did this list look so unbelievably good only 2 years ago??
They are primed to bounce back next season, but I just don't see where all the improvement can come from. Unless Rioli turns into Ablett and Lewis becomes a Bartel, they are in trouble.

We sure are.

 

[SA HAWK]

Time to rebuild.

I would feel a lot worse if we hadn't won a flag with this group.

Imagine how doggies supporters feel.

 

[sr36]

I still think that they might threaten for the next couple of years. But they do need to sart targetting midfielders in the next few drafts. Most games are won and lost there and their midfield is aging.

 

[Sometimes]

I still think that they might threaten for the next couple of years. But they do need to sart targetting midfielders in the next few drafts. Most games are won and lost there and their midfield is aging.

Not really mate. Our core mids are 25/26 yo (Hodge, Mitch, Sewell) which means they're just about to be hitting their peaks.

Unless of course that's way to old for Big Footy.

 

[sr36]

Not really mate. Our core mids are 25/26 yo (Hodge, Mitch, Sewell) which means they're just about to be hitting their peaks.

Unless of course that's way to old for Big Footy.

Apologies. I just looked up their ages and they're 25-28. For some reason all of them seem a bit older than they are. Although I do still think that they need to add to their midfiled rotation, particularly ball carriers.

 

[Sometimes]

Apologies. I just looked up their ages and they're 25-28. For some reason all of them seem a bit older than they are. Although I do still think that they need to add to their midfiled rotation, particularly ball carriers.

Probs cause they've been around for a while.

It's a funny thing ball carriers. Everyone seems to go on about speed, but Geelong have never been a fast side, but their ball movement at it's best is really fast, and that for me is all the speed you need.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Their midfield did suffer from injuries this season, Sewell, Mitchell, Burgoyne and even Hodge and Rioli at points, perhaps with a long uninterrupted preseason they will be fine. But it cetainly doesn't look like they will be dominant. Also is it just me or do they have a lot of players who are extremely injury prone? If you could say right now that Rioli, Burgoyne and Young would play 22 games next season, it could go a long way to pushing up into the top four. But that is a huge IF. Wait till November and you will see a story about Burgoyne missing some training because of knee surgery...and the cycle starts again.

The last thing that I wanted to mention is the intelligence of the players. Decision making is more crucial now than at any other time in Football. Hodge is sensational, Burgoyne as well, Mitchell good to very good most of the time while Rioli could be anything but other than these guys they don't have players that make the right decisions by hand and foot. Guys like Bateman, Young, Osborne, Murphy, even Guerra at times, Sewell, Ladson and even Lewis who should be superb and probably will be seems to shank too many kicks, or take the wrong option too many times.

The most incredible statistic I noticed last week while reading about the game, was that the Hawks were over a year older than Collingwood, with around 10 more average games experience. I don't think too many people would have predicted that.

X Ellis was very good in a Grand Final, but he is a huge disappointment as a player. He looks a slightly classier RIick Ladson, and for pick number 3, that is not good enough.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

If they hadnt fallen over the line in 2008 this thread wouldnt even exist. Dynasty?? FFS even the Tigers beat them that year!

 

[Arc1]

It's really weird reading the crap in the Hawks board overnight and then seeing that a Collingwood fan is out here posting not only with good sense but a good understanding of our lineup and what has been going wrong. What's the world coming to, eh.

 

[Prodigious]

Hawthorn won't improve until they admit one thng

They are not as good as what THEY think they are.

Here are a couple of snippets from Clarko

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/101943/default.aspx

HAWTHORN coach Alastair Clarkson says a number of top sides will be celebrating the Hawks’ early exit from this year’s finals after they bowed out to Fremantle by 30 points at Subiaco.

Clarkson said his team had turned around its fortunes after a slow start to 2010 but had “spluttered” toward the end of the season as injuries took their toll.

“The last half of the season we were up with some of the better sides in the competition in terms of win-loss,” he said.

“Unfortunately for us we got a couple of key injuries and a lot of those injuries were to our runners - and we play our best footy when we’ve got our runners in the side.

“In my view there’d be four or five other sides in the competition that would be pretty pleased that we’ve been knocked out.”

So rather than admitting they have a long way to go and some of their key players from the premiership side would be lucky to be playing at half their output from that year, he virtually blames a couple of late season injuries (Who are they?)

Hawthorn also blamed injuries last year when they didn't make the finals and now after being clearly outplayed by an inexperienced Dockers side for the majority of the game, he is doing it again.

Plenty of sides have injuries and to the best of my knowledge their current injury status prior to Rioli getting injured during the game isn't that bad.

Until they admit their problems and the reality that they are not as good they think they are and have gone backwards rather than forwards, they will continue to be an average team.

All Clarko is doing is giving the players and club an out and stopping them from making the changes required to move forward.

Poor leadership...

 

[camrock]

Hawthorn have enough top quality players (awesome, in a few instances) with enough good years ahead of them that they can challenge again. A bit of luck in the off-season with the list (ruck? defender?) and, as has been noted above, with injury and they could go again in 2011.

If that doesn't come together it would be sensible to target the following season, if Clarkson's capable of adopting the right mindset and if the (often unreasonable, from my observation) expectations of supporters can be managed.

 

[The Wrecker]

Re: Hawthorn won't improve until they admit one thing

Point well made. Bit of humility wouldn't go astray.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Re: Hawthorn won't improve until they admit one thng

Wow, ridiculous from Clarkson. Agreed, agreed.

Birchall was the only runner out of the team that I can think of. And the Hawks were in trouble before Rioli and Ellis went down anyway.

 

[Riders of Rohan]

Re: Hawthorn won't improve until they admit one thng

They already have my friend :\

 

[Ricmel]

Re: Hawthorn won't improve until they admit one thng

Most deluded club in the AFL. They think Buddy is the best player in the AFL, they think their midfield is redhot, they think Rioli is Daicos, they think Roughhead is Carey.

In truth they have an ordinary, slow midfield, two lazy KPFs, a crap defense and Cyril is only occasionally brilliant.

Good argument to go back to a final 6

 

[Knight Ryders]

Re: Hawthorn won't improve until they admit one thng

We know we're crap, that's why we sacked our coach. Clarkson needs to rethink his game plan as Hawthorn have a ridiculous amount of talent and it is not producing the goods consistently.

Also need to rethinktheir pre-seasons and player management - injuries are killing them.

 

[Zahki]

Re: Hawthorn won't improve until they admit one thng

Yeah I found that a bit strange. Of course the Hawks supporters around here went on about the top 4 shaking in their boots about the thought of meeting Hawthorn in a final, blah blah, but for the coach to say it? They went 1-6 at the start of the year and only just scraped into finals. No-one was fearing them because they were shit for the whole season, the sooner they accept that fact they can begin to address it and fix whatever the issue is.

 

[QuietB]

Re: Hawthorn won't improve until they admit one thng

They are not as good as what THEY think they are.

Here are a couple of snippets from Clarko

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/101943/default.aspx








So rather than admitting they have a long way to go and some of their key players from the premiership side would be lucky to be playing at half their output from that year, he virtually blames a couple of late season injuries (Who are they?)

Hawthorn also blamed injuries last year when they didn't make the finals and now after being clearly outplayed by an inexperienced Dockers side for the majority of the game, he is doing it again.

Plenty of sides have injuries and to the best of my knowledge their current injury status prior to Rioli getting injured during the game isn't that bad.

Until they admit their problems and the reality that they are not as good they think they are and have gone backwards rather than forwards, they will continue to be an average team.

All Clarko is doing is giving the players and club an out and stopping them from making the changes required to move forward.

Poor leadership...

Maybe Ian Robson can do his old club a favour and sneak us a copy of the essendon leadership manual - has worked a treat lately.

Hawks got beat, weren't good enough. Not sure what the point of slating the players in the post game press conference would have been but each to their own.

 

[Collingwould]

Re: Hawthorn won't improve until they admit one thng

Gee. A coach making comments after the disappointment of his team being outed from the finals. Never happened beofre has it?

To the OP ... when will Essendon admit they are crap?

he gave credit to Fremantle in a back handed compliment, saying they (hawks) won everywhere except the scoreboard. Well Clarko, arrogance doesn't win friends or fans. I don't like when a coach behaves like this

p.s. the thread is about the hawks, start your own thread on the crap don's