Headbutt on O'Keefe did HAPPEN

[D Mitchell]

I honestly can't believe that you think that tackle was in any way intentionally attempting to hurt Geraghty, it's a standard tackle that you'd see in almost any afl game, .....

If you get the opportunity, GoOsH1, have a look at it in slow motion. It was intended to hurt but I agree that you see it in AFL football. A "normal" AFL tackle brings the tacklee to the ground. A growing proportion of tackles now end up with an "add on", an attempt to make the contact with the ground especially hard, either by putting the weight of the tackler's body behind the tackle and riding the tacklee into the ground or using momentum and slinging the tacklee into the ground, which is what Pearce did. The add on is prohibited in International Rules. If you'd said that Pearce didn't know the tacklee was Geraghty, that might be fair enough because he may not have although he had Geraghty in his sights long enough before the tackle to think, "hey, that's the bloke we agreed to give it to". That sling was vicious, even by AFL standards because the arms were pinned and Pearce made a point of landing on Geraghty's head. For what it's worth, I believe that Pearce knew who it was.

Thank you for your kind words, Cavanmaniac. I'm Australian and insofar as the AFL players concerned represent me, which they don't, most of them are an embarassment. To be fair, they don’t carry on like that in AFL footy. Bullies getting their comeuppance, the triumph of the oppressed over the oppressors, the victim who fights back, that’s the theme of most action or drama films, it’s a common theme. It was played out in the first quarter.

 

[Valve Bounce]

I can guarantee you that I play against harder men than the likes of Aaron Davey and Danyle Pearce.
.

So does my six year old grandson

 

[Valve Bounce]

Sorry

Sorry!! the Devil made me do it

 

[Toots Hibbert]

..You're fighting a losing battle D Mitchell, just be content that rational people everywhere know what really went down and leave these blinkered thick macho pricks to themselves because they deserve no better punishment than their own ridiculous company.

Ta-ra.

The following posts from Irish people on their own boards are worth a read...

what about the headbutt by the irish guy?

or the kick to teh gonads?

Both were responsible for disgraceful scenes.

As for the game?

Keeper was terrible for the first 3/4. Long kickouts against the bigger Aussies? Idiot tactic.

The player marking Hall was a disaster. Way too easily intimidated.

Kennelly was nowhere after he came back.

No players able to take a shot from ~45 yards or so.

Horrible performance tbqh. Feel so shamed after it again.

Fair play to Australia they beat us up and down the pitch in every aspect of the game.Ireland were absolutley brutal.

Mind you im sure the papers will be full of the first quarters fighting which is fair enough but BOTH teams were guilty of dirty play.

Personaly i dont see the tackle on Geraghty as dirty or as trying to take him out. He got hit hard in a fair tackle and landed awkwardly from what i can see and at this stage i have seen the replay around 8 times.Had he gotten straight up or if it was an Aussie player nobody would have batted an eyelid.

Was at the game yesterday, and the Irish performance was disgraceful. If the players didn't want to play they should have said so a month ago.

The Australians played rough, too rough in the first quarter, but after that they just outplayed us.

The irish players didn't seem to know the rules, hand passing themselves into trouble, when a short kick would have given a mark. Not tackling aussie players and then trying to run the ball rather then pass it themselves. And the shooting was terrible, I counted 3 shots in a row that dropped straight into the aussie keepers hands and more went wide, wide of a goal 3 times the size they're used to shooting at.

The Irish lads played like they were asleep, they didn't mark up when the aussies were attacking and they didn't make themselves available when we were on the attack. The Irish performance yesterday did a lot more damage to the series then all the thuggery of last year.

I think there is alot of hypocrites in the media (and Sean Boylan). I was at the game and I saw about 3/4 bad incidents. Most of these were in the first 3 minutes. The fight Galvin STARTED should have ended up in two red card being given out and the one where Benny Coulter was taken out should have ended up in a red also. Otherwise the game was pretty much played inside the rules.

I was more disappointed in the way Ireland played. They were made look like the real amateurs, ones who never saw a ball before. Boylan should have picked the best players in the country like the Aussies did. Three Irish players played yesterday who played in the AI final. Thats just stupid. Donaghy the player of the championship, the player who has to change his game the least, didn't play. Three of the best forwards in the country weren't playing (Clarke, Forde, Dillion). Kieran McDonald was playing a blinder yesterday - in McHale Park. A heap of over the hill players were (McGeeney, Geraghty, Earley). Joe Bergin played in forwards. A Meath man by the name of Kevin Reilly(?) was against Barry Hall hah. Young Begley looked about six. Boylan did not prepare this team for this game.
Then Boylan comes out with his stupid tirade at the end of the game. Is this the same man who put out the dirtyest team in the history of the GAA in '86 - '91 and the seecond dirtyest '96 - '00? The multicultural saint that is Graham Geragthy got unfortunately injured (within the rules of the game). Tough. Get on with it don't take your team off the pitch.
The media took a set against this game during the week essentially saying - if you read between the lines - that there wasn't enough physical action. They got some yesterday and now there up in arms. "Irish players would never go out to target in divdual players like Geragthy was targeteed today" was what I heard on the radio yesterday evening. Ask Joe Canning what he thinks about that.
"Nicky Brennan was as annoyed today as I've ever seen him" is what Boylan said. He should be angry today - noy because of the International Rules though but because of the Leinster Club Championship game where the Ref got hit a box by a player and then a mentor for whistling up a last minute attack for overcarrying.

I've never heard such a bunch of hypocrites in my life. No wonder the Aussies think we're whinigers. If we want to beat them next year pick the best players like we did in '98 and '99 and '04 and beat the Aussies playing footbal and by getting involved in silly buggers and "standing up to them".

I think that is exactly what you are saying. This is a compromise between two sports, we have advantages such as the round ball. They have an advantage in the increased physicalllity. There was a marked difference between Begley who plays in Brisbane and the rest of the team, Begley got tackled and held down a bit, but first chance he had he rolled over got up and played on. The other Irish players got shirty and statred fighting. Stevie Mc Donnell was guilty of this, prettty much the entire second half he was wrestling with one of them, as a highly repsected scorer, he was pretty much useless to us in the second half. We got outclassed and outfoxed, and Boylans reaction is pretty lame, I expected more from him, then I am going home, and taking my ball with me.

The Irish lads were no saints, punching people in the back of the head and starting stupid fights.

The Irish team need a new manager for the next game, they were woefully unprepared for any of the skills needed to play this game.

Terrible marking - They were usually 3 or 4 paces behind the aussies.
Terrible passing - Not taking advantage of the mark.
Terrible shooting.
Poor tackling.

Geraghty is a racist, a thug and a bully who was hit hard within the rules of this game. He took a bad knock and that's it. Our players were frightened by the Aussies; the refereeing should have punished the Aussies but we shouldn't have been intimidated in that way (easier said than done perhaps).

As for Boylan's whinging speech, 'I never seen that before', what about Meath in the 1990s. I seem to remember Canavan being carried off just after he came on (and who decked him - oh yeah saint Graham).

MM

Remember this is Irish people posting on an Irish discussion board.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=52309890&posted=1#post52309890

 

[Horsebox]

You'll find that most Irish GAA fans that have grown up with these series don't on the whole have an axe to grind over this. You see, you have to remember, that without the Geraghty incident (which was illegal in terms of IR) we would not have had the reaction we saw afterwards. To be honest, Lindsay Gilbee has a lot to answer for. He keeps his mouth shut and there's no implied threats to Geraghty, then the tackle is just one of those things. But when you see the guy that everyone knew was going to be targetted leave the field unconscious then that ratchets everything up several notches. I know he landed badly, but many people in the crowd didn't have a clear view so they assumed he'd been "taken out". Guess what picture was on the cover of every paper the next day? His unconscious form on the ground. Now he has been a friend of the manager for many years, they've won All Irelands together, they've gone through many ups and downs and the man has a wife and a couple of small kids. When Boylan saw him stretchered off (bearing in mind what went the week before) he blew his stack. Contrary to what the single-celled, bedroom dwellers around here might say about him, Sean Boylan is truly one of the finest human beings you could ever hope to meet in this world. You won't find many people in Ireland that would honestly tell you otherwise. But explaining that would involve speaking about real-life matters like illness, healing, compassion and decency and I know there's probably not much stomach for that here. That said, it's probably over now which is a shame, but no one in Australia or Ireland will lose too much sleep over it. The AFL will go on and the GAA will go on and thats where our respective passions lie so all the best for the coming season.

 

[cavanmaniac]

Good article from Colm O'Rourke in the Sunday Independent, more reflective of Irish opinion than selective snippets from amateur journos offered in a typically partial/2% answer to my post:

Black day, but noble experiment does not deserve sour ending . . .

AFTER a week of wild and whirling words a certain calm has been restored, albeit in the wake of a fairly violent storm. Now is the time to have a more measured response even if many, from Nickey Brennan down, have already decided that the ship has run aground.

I always felt that the future or otherwise of this noble experiment would be on the basis of three factors: the level of indiscipline, the standard and impartiality of the refereeing, and the competitiveness of the games. Nowhere would I introduce finance, as I don't think either the GAA or the AFL look on this as vitally important. Some cynics might suggest that it would be very unusual for the GAA to shoot the golden goose but in this case the capacity crowds are a secondary consideration.

The violent disorder on Sunday in that first quarter has probably made it almost impossible to argue for continuation. The claims and counter claims as to the instigators has poisoned the atmosphere further, but a few things are quite clear.

The Australians certainly set out to rough up the Irish team even before the game started. Some of this is standard practice in their own game, heavy shouldering and trash talking being two examples. Rarely does fist fighting take over and generally the game settles down very quickly. Previous International rules games have had similar starts but this was prolonged and nasty, with obvious targeting of certain Irish players.

This type of intimidation does not occur in our game so it is a very different environment in which players had to respond. Some decided to try and give as good as they were getting, others opted out and decided that discretion was the better part of valour. The nett effect was ugly in front of so many kids, but we have to be very careful on our side about being too self-righteous on this issue as the response by some Irish players was none too pleasant. Many will suggest that a lot of usually mild mannered players were driven to extreme reactions; the Australians were not buying into this argument as they suffered on the injury count too.

While much of what went on early did not actually lead to serious injury it is not really the point: that's the same argument that is given after most melees in club matches.

The only worrying injury was to Graham Geraghty yet his concussion was from a fair tackle even if the sling to the ground after the ball was released was extremely rough and dangerous because his hands were wrapped up and it was unnecessary as the ball was gone. The Australian argument was that it was just a good tackle. Geraghty did get special attention in the wrong way, as indeed did Steven McDonnell, who had a player in his face for a prolonged period.

The second issue was the refereeing. Last year at a meeting in Croke Park previous players and managers were invited to give opinions after the problems in Australia. We all aired the view that red cards were the only answer to gross indiscipline. This was directly in opposition to the Australian view - they don't want a game unbalanced by a sending off. If one or more of these cards were shown on Sunday in the first few minutes - and they would not all have been on the one side - then things would have been very different.

As it was, allowing the game to start with several wrestling matches going on only served to legitimise disorder. The worst decision, though, was to allow the first Australian goal when most of the players in that half of the field were engaged in a vicious brawl. That decision by the Australian referee cannot be excused on the basis of the Aussie rules game playing on and sorting the mess out later. A referee's primary concern should be the safety of the players; the Aussie ref reneged on his responsibility.

The rules for solving problems are in the book, but they were not used

After last year's series I was heavily criticised in Australia by their umpires' body for calling the Aussie ref biased. In this game I was disappointed by Shane McInerney who I thought would be a big improvement. Too often he gave the benefit of the doubt to his own side, and that is enough to kill the game. The rules for solving problems are in the book, but they were not used.

The GAA should come in for even harsher criticism. Pat McEnaney did the Galway game while David Coldrick was in charge in Croke Park. Why was one not in charge of both? It is this sort of messing that makes it impossible for a ref to build a relationship with his counterpart. The same refs should be in charge for years if they are competent.

The last thing is the competitiveness. That is gone at the moment. Last week's brilliance of the Australians in many of our basic skills was overshadowed by the first quarter. They won the game in Gaelic terms by 3-15 to 0-7. That is an almighty hiding, but the most worrying thing is our lack of kicking ability. This surely can be traced to the change in our own game from a propelling game by foot to a carrying game where the transfer by hand outnumbers kicks by four or five to one.

The Aussies gave an exhibition of speed, skill, fitness, support play, ability to punch (the ball!) using both hands, accurate kicking and bravery in the tackle. Whether many of the Irish players decided it was not worth risking life and limb in this cause should be easily ascertainable - and many would not blame them.

There is no doubt in my mind that the type of player suited to this game is not nearly as prevalent as five or six years ago and if the best are not willing to play then we have no chance. If the tour was to go ahead next year then a sweetener of something like €5,000 a man to play and the same again to win might change some minds.

The ultimate decision on the future therefore should rest largely with the present players and management and I would be surprised if Seán Boylan would not like this challenge next year assuming that the areas which should have been tidied up are firmly nailed down.

There are many on the Irish side who are delighted because they see International games as a plague on our house. I could not agree less. We have learned a lot from the Australians on many aspects of football and they would acknowledge that they have also learned from us. Isolation would do nothing for either side.

Public pronouncements from last week have largely backed the GAA into a corner but there is still plenty of wriggle room. Two cultures are colliding here but I firmly believe that there is plenty of goodwill on the Australian side to make this work. Even if last Sunday was a black day the noble experiment does not deserve to finish on a sour note.

 

[D Mitchell]

The following posts from Irish people on their own boards are worth a read...remember this is Irish people posting on an Irish discussion board.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=52309890&posted=1#post52309890

The GAA board reflects a wider diversity of views on the game than those proffered by contributors to Bigfooty, the overwhelming majority of whom bleat the same line, the smug and simplistic, they-started-it-we-finished-it-they-are-whingers. That's what cavanmaniac is getting at. Even of the posts you have selectively chosen, the majority concentrate on the skill issue, rather than the biff, far more an obsession with Bigfooty posters.

A good article by Colm O'Rourke. Thanks for that, cavanmaniac.

 

[Toots Hibbert]

I think you're the pro-Irish equivalent of those Australian posters who couldn't see that Chris Johnson was in the wrong last year. You're set in your views and no amount of evidence or logic will pursuade you.

 

[Milkman]

I think you're the pro-Irish equivalent of those Australian posters who couldn't see that Chris Johnson was in the wrong last year. You're set in your views and no amount of evidence or logic will pursuade you.

Totally. The truth lies somwhere in-between the blinkered Aussies he so vehemently criticizes, and his own one-eyed account of events.

I've always been a supporter of this series in the past, but since the Aussies started taking it seriously, it's become abundantly clear that you can't pit professionals from a contact sport, against amateurs from a non-contact sport. It really ends up being a bit of a joke.

The violence was not really the fault of either side. The Aussies went to impose themselves physically early (as they would in any AFL game), and the Irish not used to that lashed out with a few cheap shots. From there things escalated. It came about due to a basic lack of undertanding of what's acceptable and what's not in our respective codes.

 

[D Mitchell]

...and no amount of evidence or logic will pursuade you.

You can think what you like. I haven't seen any evidence and even less logic in most posts to which I have responded. I am not pro-Irish, I am Australian and anti thuggery. All of my posts have been directed at correcting absurdly distorted versions of what is plainly visible on the replay, of picking up posters on generalisations by reference to particulars and to criticising the excesses of the AFL players. My comments about the GAA players have been restricted to highlighting the provocation they suffered and their status as victims.

 

[Matt_TY]

We haven't seen any of either from you. Only suppositions and hypocrisy.

You're not doing the Irish "stupidity" reputation any favours, mate.

And... surprise surprise... looks like things have calmed down a tad and your lot may not be taking their ball and going home after all. We're on track for history remembering nothing but the score, then.

See you for another shellacking in 2007. "You Will Never Beat The Irish"... unless you try. In which case, you'll beat them four times in five years.




PS: By the way, the previous Ireland series, the one in 2004, the only one of the past five years you've actually won... wasn't that the one where you were running ads on TV about how you were going to "knock the head off" Barry Hall etc.? Don't you just love it when statements like that turn around and bite the people who made them?

 

[cavanmaniac]

PS: By the way, the previous Ireland series, the one in 2004, the only one of the past five years you've actually won... wasn't that the one where you were running ads on TV about how you were going to "knock the head off" Barry Hall etc.?

Er...no, there was never an ad on Irish TV like that. The two taglines we've used are "There is no compromise in International Rules," which is very apt I think, and this year's "It's time to play...HARD"

Don't you just love it when statements like that turn around and bite the people who made them?

Yes.