Heraldsun 8/8 - Essendon to contest suspensions, charges expected in a few days

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RegHickeyStand said:
So what do you make of Hird leaking the Demetriou-Evans phone conversation, which soon after followed with Evans resigning?

Hird won't comment during the investigation except when it suits him.
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On AFL 360 this week when Bomber was pretty much revealed to be Robbo's source so any information went through him. Even though it is likely done at Hird's direction he personally doesn't relay the information.

Vlad's done at minimum the same throughout, has others say what he cannot be seen to. His return from the US for example - says the right words in front of he camera but coincidentally leaks/propaganda detrimental to Essendon magically appear.
 
THUNDERCAT! said:
If he were to have corrected the point to pharmacist it would further engage the conversation which could be seen as commenting during the investigation, which he has sworn not to do. Denying isn't seen as commenting so much.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Sorry but this argument is just nonsense. The fact that he would be denying he saw a doctor (yet saw a pharmacist) is a sign of rampant disregard for truth by playing with technicalities and words.

Implicit in the denial of an honest man is the notion that it can stand up to scrutiny and be defended as truth in all regards. It relies not on careful definition of the terms of the accusation but truth, pure and simple.

Implicit in the weasel words of liars are denials of the wording alone or a strict definition of elements of the accusation. (Eg. Most famously: "I did not have sex with that woman" because I am defining sex in a particular way to suit my purposes.)

There would have been no repercussions from anyone if Hird had clarified the situation. It would not have been seen as commenting by even his harshest critics I suspect. But to publicly deny it, only to be later found out, looks like what it is: the behaviour of a shifty man seeking only to save his skin.

Sent from the real world using common sense.
 

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AFLQLD said:
Sorry but this argument is just nonsense. The fact that he would be denying he saw a doctor (yet saw a pharmacist) is a sign of rampant disregard for truth by playing with technicalities and words.

Implicit in the denial of an honest man is the notion that it can stand up to scrutiny and be defended as truth in all regards. It relies not on careful definition of the terms of the accusation but truth, pure and simple.

Implicit in the weasel words of liars are denials of the wording alone or a strict definition of elements of the accusation. (Eg. Most famously: "I did not have sex with that woman" because I am defining sex in a particular way to suit my purposes.)

There would have been no repercussions from anyone if Hird had clarified the situation. It would not have been seen as commenting by even his harshest critics I suspect. But to publicly deny it, only to be later found out, looks like what it is: the behaviour of a shifty man seeking only to save his skin.

Sent from the real world using common sense.
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You are correct regarding the ill moral use of weasel words, I'm not excusing them.

A weasel word is not enough to prove guilt though.

If he's guilty of setting out to cheat with PED's then he must go. Can't see the harm in allowing the facts to be officially released and Hird having the chance to have his say before sending him to the gallows.

.
 
Plugger35 said:
Comparing bad financial governance of some of the poorer Victorian clubs to the bad governance at Essendon where they deliberately set up a systematic doping regime designed to gain an unfair advantage is laughable, they are completely different situations. Those poorer Victorian clubs also face a lot of financial disadvantages that Essendon don't face like smaller supporter bases, poor fixturing, lack of sponsors and bad stadium deals.

If Essendon had any sense they would cop their punishment on the chin rather than fighting it in the courts as they will earn back more respect. Carlton copped their punishment for salary cap cheating on the chin and after serving their punishment they earnt back the respect of the rest of the competition and were forgiven. If Essendon try to weasle out of their rightful punishment in the courts it will just make other clubs and their supporters resent them even more and they won't be forgiven.
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Why is it unfair if

a) its legal and
b) has no proven performance enhancing qualities

Awaiting your reply
 

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Napier_Street said:
Yeah, lead by the guardians of morality and fairness Carlton.......

Pffft....at least the world is greener thanks to all the hard work done by Juddy on his recycling crusades

Seriously!
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at least they've worn their punishment, copped it on the chin, and owned up…. glass houses though… if you don't want him pot shooting your club, why are you pot shooting his?
 
Napier_Street said:
Corrected but couldn't delete the original post - apologies
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i will happily try to answer on this guys post if you wouldn't mind elaborating.
are you debating what he has written, or about a certain substance (didn't mention which one)? I'm not really following sorry.
happy to debate it though.
 
slimdusty4 said:
so when Hird said he "no" in relation to whether he had spoken to a NY doctor, we believed he was saying "no i haven't spoken to a doctor"?

but now that its confirmed (??) that Hird did speak to said doctor, he wasn't "lying" he was simply stating "no" as in i have no comment?

this has to be the funniest thing i have ever heard…. you guys will literally believe / say anything to look after Hird / efc, no matter how unbelievable it is, you are actually trying to spin the word 'NO', lol even OJ's lawyer couldn't argue that, but your mob will believe it?!.….
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Hird replied carefully that he had not "spoken to a New York doctor", because there was discussion on here at the time about how specific the words were and how - although lots of people took it as a denial - it left so much room for him to be concealing facts while not actually lying. Not sure people thought it would be something like this. If he really did have exactly the conversations reported by Dean Robinson, but it was a pharmacist instead of a doctor, that would be breathtaking cynicism.
 
kfc1 said:
You're living in fantasy land.

Way too much for the AFL to lose by getting rid of the 2x Collingwood, Carlton and Richmond games. That's a non-negotiable in the draw.

We've already had 2 Perth trips this year, 2 Sydney trips, 1 Adelaide trip - not many more possibilites while maintaining the above.

Way too much for the AFL to lose to shaft Essendon from ANZAC Day.

Constant 5 day breaks mean we will be playing about 6 extra games than everyone else by the end of the season, lol
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Hawthorn geelong out drew carlton collingwood on the same weekend welcome to this century where bombers fans are proven some of the most fickle

I agree sureley they want a totally fresh start next year ?

Theyll get smashed in this years finals
 
Is i
Napier_Street said:
Why is it unfair if

a) its legal and
b) has no proven performance enhancing qualities

Awaiting your reply
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Is it fair on any draftee to have no choice but to go to essendon who have a proven lack of care for their players ?
 
blaze036 said:
Wow **** off Essendon, you've gone and stabbed the game by drug cheating and now you won't take ur punishment like a man you are gonna whinge and get lawyers involved...

hope they don't play finals again for 10 years, smash them into the ground
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I've held back on the subject all along. But if Essendon fight the stripping of premiership points I hope their club gets smashed into oblivion. If there's any chance whatsoever that they have had an unfair advantage over the rest of the competition they should not be playing finals this year.
 
kfc1 said:
You're living in fantasy land.

Way too much for the AFL to lose by getting rid of the 2x Collingwood, Carlton and Richmond games. That's a non-negotiable in the draw.

We've already had 2 Perth trips this year, 2 Sydney trips, 1 Adelaide trip - not many more possibilites while maintaining the above.

Way too much for the AFL to lose to shaft Essendon from ANZAC Day.

Constant 5 day breaks mean we will be playing about 6 extra games than everyone else by the end of the season, lol
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YOU WANT ME ON THAT WALL!
YOU NEED ME ON THAT WALL!
 
AFLQLD said:
My favourite line: "a bit of bad management."

Using this logic:

The Titanic: "Ship is just sitting a little low in the water."

The Hindenberg: "Not an ideal end to the trip."

The Challenger Space Shuttle: "The flight could have probably gone a bit better."
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Probably could have systematically injected our players with less performance enhancing substances seeking an advantage over our competition v0v
 
THUNDERCAT! said:
On AFL 360 this week when Bomber was pretty much revealed to be Robbo's source so any information went through him. Even though it is likely done at Hird's direction he personally doesn't relay the information.

Vlad's done at minimum the same throughout, has others say what he cannot be seen to. His return from the US for example - says the right words in front of he camera but coincidentally leaks/propaganda detrimental to Essendon magically appear.
Click to expand...
Who really cares who leaks what to whom?

It's a cat and mouse game amongst the big boys. It makes for great viewing for the punters.

Both are as bad as each other. Hird can hardly claim the high ground over AD when he's seen fit to hire a PR firm, when he says he wasn't going to comment. A PR firm by definition is there to manipulate a message. If youre not commenting, you don't need to massage anything.
 
THUNDERCAT! said:
If he were to have corrected the point to pharmacist it would further engage the conversation which could be seen as commenting during the investigation, which he has sworn not to do. Denying isn't seen as commenting so much.

Other option would be to say no comment, but to have to keep saying that daily for so long would be torturous. Especially with the intense scrutiny and what you see as slanderous claims being made about.

No matter which approach he takes or what the reality is, the process itself makes it easy for him to be beat up on.
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Oh please. He has commented frequently - when it suited him. This revelation that he actually spoke to a pharmacist, in New York, about an undetectable cream just gives Robinson's testimony more credence and leaves Hird looking increasingly shifty and deliberately deceptive.
 
SBYM said:
Hirdy will find a shiny new nickel behind ASADA's ear and everything will be ok...

Gawd I hope this is the beginning of the middle part of the end of the latter stage of the second third of this saga...
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It's like the end of The Lord of the Rings...
 

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Heraldsun 8/8 - Essendon to contest suspensions, charges expected in a few days

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