Primary Here we go... religion in state schools.

[courtjester]

If you don't have a response the only thing I can assume is that you now realise ANY religious teaching we have in our schools is evangelising. Shouldn't happen period. There shouldn't be an opt out because IT JUST SHOULDN'T HAPPEN in the first place.

So are you saying these things can't be taught without RE?

Religious people are often filled with guilt about doing something wrong/immoral etc so they like having someone there reminding them all day long: "No, don't have homosex with that bloke", "No, don't go see those strippers", "No, don't go out and play the field", "No, don't have sex before marriage" etc

The truth is many of us are comfortable being gay, or seeing strippers, or doing drugs, or having affairs, or chasing tail, or co inhabiting and having sex before marriage. It's only the weak who feel guilty so they must surround themselves with a permanent preventative rehab.

Many people don't need religion. Weak God-fearers need to understand that. They are weak, we are not.

I agree that evangelism should not happen in schools, I fail to see why religion should not be taught however, and of course there are mulitple ways to teach morals and ethics.

I agree that religious people are often filled with guilt. I dislike the modern church that is not interested in truth, but more interested in keeping people with their baggage paying $$. I condemn any church that does not operate on grace and compassion for those in need.

Only the weak feel guilt? Interesting observation!

Generalizations do not help this argument, and are not productive. Saying that anyone who "fears" God is weak, and other people are not, is absurd.

 

[bunsen burner]

I agree that evangelism should not happen in schools, I fail to see why religion should not be taught however, and of course there are mulitple ways to teach morals and ethics.

So are you saying telling 5 year old children that God is real is not evangelism? <PLEASE ANSWER THIS>

And you have provided no such reason why teaching religion is a good idea except that "it is heaps good". You have already agreed that ethics and morals can be taught without religion, so please explain why teaching religion is a good idea?

I also wonder, if you would have any problem teaching Islam throughout schools? Afterall the Koran teaches respect, ethics, etc.

I agree that religious people are often filled with guilt. I dislike the modern church that is not interested in truth,

And the truth is?

but more interested in keeping people with their baggage paying $$. I condemn any church that does not operate on grace and compassion for those in need.

That's pretty much all of them. But yours is different, right?

Only the weak feel guilt? Interesting observation!

I don't believe I ever said that.

Generalizations do not help this argument, and are not productive. Saying that anyone who "fears" God is weak, and other people are not, is absurd.

1. Everyone who fears God is weak.
2. I never said everyone else isn't. Other people maybe weak in other ways. But we aren't talking about that. In regards to religion: you are weak, we are not.

 

[phantom13]

Hey Chief, let us know the outcome of this, im quite intrigued now as to how the school will handle this.

 

[courtjester]

So are you saying telling 5 year old children that God is real is not evangelism? <PLEASE ANSWER THIS>

At no point in this thread, have I said anything that could be remotely construed as saying that 5 year olds should be told "God is real".

I also wonder, if you would have any problem teaching Islam throughout schools? Afterall the Koran teaches respect, ethics, etc.

Of course not, if the program is endorsed by school council, the principal, the Education Dept and the individual parents of that school.

I don't believe I ever said that.


1. Everyone who fears God is weak.
2. I never said everyone else isn't. Other people maybe weak in other ways. But we aren't talking about that. In regards to religion: you are weak, we are not.

Seeing you dont know me, it's interesting, these observations you make about me.

 

[bunsen burner]

At no point in this thread, have I said anything that could be remotely construed as saying that 5 year olds should be told "God is real".

You said this:

While it is true that they *gasp* believe in Jesus and his teachings, what they present is a program based around the teaching of Jesus (respect others, treat them the way you expect to be treated, care for the outcast and the marginalized), all positives.

Clearly you have taken the side that teaching religion ins school is ok. Teaching christianity at school means teaching kids that God is real. No exceptions. They aren't there to give kids an overview of religion. They are there to indoctrinate people into Christianity.

Don't insult us anymore by making such claims. You have clearly back kids being taught God is real.

 

[courtjester]

You said this:

While it is true that they *gasp* believe in Jesus and his teachings, what they present is a program based around the teaching of Jesus (respect others, treat them the way you expect to be treated, care for the outcast and the marginalized), all positives.

Clearly you have taken the side that teaching religion ins school is ok. Teaching christianity at school means teaching kids that God is real. No exceptions. They aren't there to give kids an overview of religion. They are there to indoctrinate people into Christianity.

Don't insult us anymore by making such claims. You have clearly back kids being taught God is real.

No. You're the one creating straw mans with inflammatory crap about 5 year olds being taught that God is real, and then super-imposing them onto me as my beliefs. I stated what I saw as taught in RE, which is what you quoted. And is what I have observed. Keep arguing with what i've observed if you want.

 

[bunsen burner]

No. You're the one creating straw mans with inflammatory crap about 5 year olds being taught that God is real,

So you're saying in RE or scripture in our primary schools that kids aren't being taught God is fact?

Who are you trying to kid?

and then super-imposing them onto me as my beliefs.

FACT 1: Kids are taught that God is fact. Not "some people believe this", but "This is who God is and this is what he does".

FACT 2: You condone religious teaching in schools.

You do the maths. It's not hard to work out what you believe.

I stated what I saw as taught in RE, which is what you quoted. And is what I have observed.

Here are some multiple choice for you:

I (courtjester) is:

a) delusional
b) lying
c) both


I (courtjester) is:

a) non-practising christian/catholic
b) practising christian/catholic
c) agnostic/Atheist

 

[courtjester]

So you're saying in RE or scripture in our primary schools that kids aren't being taught God is fact?

Who are you trying to kid?



FACT 1: Kids are taught that God is fact. Not "some people believe this", but "This is who God is and this is what he does".

FACT 2: You condone religious teaching in schools.

You do the maths. It's not hard to work out what you believe.



Here are some multiple choice for you:

I (courtjester) is:

a) delusional
b) lying
c) both


I (courtjester) is:

a) non-practising christian/catholic
b) practising christian/catholic
c) agnostic/Atheist

Hey mate, I'm not trying to kid anyone. Read back thru what we have both posted. Here is a rundown:

CJ: From what I've observed, teaching RE in schools isn't a bad idea. I've seen it done by people who aren't there to evangelize, but who are there to present a program based around Jesus' teachings (respecting others, looking out for the marginalized)

BB: How can you present God as fact? You are a delusional God fearer. It's brainwashing 5 year old kids to believe that God is fact. You and people of your ilk are weak.

CJ: You assumed what I believed and then attacked me on it.

BB: You're claiming RE teachers aren't there to evangelize (yep, as i've said, i've observed that). You are lying or delusional. Peanut.

CJ: No need for name calling.

BB: You're weak. Man up.

CJ: What do you want me to man up to?

BB: It's ok to be homo, or see strippers or play the field. It's weak if you feel guilty about it. If you're weak, you need religion.

CJ: I agree evangelism shouldnt happen in schools. I like the church to not be one that promotes guilt, but operates in grace and compassion.

BB: Can you teach Islam in school then? You are weak about religion (??) We (who?) are not.

CJ: Yeh, you can teach whatever is endorsed by the Ed Dept, principal and school council.

BB: Yeh, but you support kids being told God is real...

CJ: No, I said, from what i've observed, this is what RE is.




I'll answer your questions:

RE probably is teaching kids God exists as a fact. But that is not the sole purpose of RE. For many kids in school, the little old lady who comes and teaches RE is the only person who bothers to say g'day to them in their week, remember their name and their favourite cartoon cos their parents are not able to for a heap of reasons.

I'm not trying to kid anyone mate. I'm saying what I have observed.

As for your absurd mulitple choice question, I would say most of us are liars and delusional, some more than others. I have lied and been deluded before, but I wouldnt say I am either as a primary character trait.

And the second one, I'm probably agnostic, with an interest in the stuff Jesus taught as a way of living. God may be true, or he may not be. I havent seen conclusive evidence either way.

Satisfied?

 

[bunsen burner]

RE probably is teaching kids God exists as a fact.

Congratulations on your backflip.

Satisfied?

Yep.

 

[courtjester]

I never said it wasn't. I said the purpose wasn't evangelizing.

Anyway, hope you've enjoyed this dialogue as much as me.

 

[Roylion]

My four children all have had RE when they attended their government primary school.

I didn't have a problem with them doing so. In my view some knowledge of the mainstream religion in their country helps them to understand the culture and history of their country a little better. I encouraged them (and continue to do so) to find out about other religions and also to question what they have been taught. However my job is easier when they have a basic knowledge to work from and build upon.

 

[carltonblue]

Hey Chief, did you give your kid Easter eggs and buy him some christmas presents? Did Santa visit him/her?

 

[bomberdude18 2]

Religion shouldn't be in state schools. There's too many others things in the curriculum that they need to be doing before they should be worrying about religion. If parents really want their kids to learn religion either enrol them in a religious school or enrol them in an after school religious education program run by a church.

I'm by no means "anti-religion" or anything, I just feel as though since RE isn't a requirement in the curriculum the class would be better off spending that time on something else like SOSE, literacy, numeracy or PE

 

[garygee]

Religion in Primary Schools How much more controversial can you get?
Lets not forget western AngloSaxon protestant beliefs are the basis of our laws and government.
My 7yo had RI in school and I let her go as I was brought up a Methodist. My FIL was beaten to a pulp regularly by his Christian brother teachers so my wife got no RI because her father hated them.(understandably) When he was old enough he stopped them hitting him then they kicked him out of school.What happened to Jesus' teaching's.

My 7yo daughter only went to two classes.
She said "It's only always about this guy Jesus" and "why is Jesus always a man?" (Bless her)
I was naively hoping that they would cover a bunch of different religions like Shintoism. Buddhism, Islam (although I' ve read the Qo'ran and these guys are plain nasty) Greek Orthodox, Jew-ism ,Catholicism, and etc.
Of course that was not what it was.






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