History Repeats?

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Cats Pyjamas

Cats Pyjamas

Debutant
Oct 10, 2007
81
0
Elwood, Vic
AFL Club
Geelong
1990: Hawthorn miss the grand final for the first time in a number of years. The dynasty appears to be over. The great team is too old to compete with a young exciting Collingwood premiership side that looks set to start a dynasty of their own.

1991: The aging Hawks defy the experts by winning the flag despite being written off pre-season. Collingwood miss the finals and the dynasty never eventuates.

......fast forward 20 years.....

2010: Geelong miss the grand final for the first time in a number of years. The dynasty appears to be over. The great team is too old to compete with a young exciting Collingwood premiership side that looks set to start a dynasty of their own.

2011: History Repeats?????
 
l think we are done for now and l am more than ok with it. l really hope we play it smart with retirements, opportunities and drafting the next few years so we are back sooner rather than later.
 

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When I was originally typing this post, I was going to add another similarity between the Hawks of '91 and the Cats of '11. I thought for a moment that Hawks also lost their best midfielder to a new club entering the competition (D.Jarman to Adelaide) but then realised he didn't leave Hawthorn until a few years later......that could be the key difference between the two.
 
Yes, let it go... for a while anyway. Time to rebuild and accept we have been awesome. Hawks did not lose the bset player in the comp. en route to that flag, and had some pretty handy key power forwards and defenders.

I have peace of mind that we can enjoywhat we have achieved, and not be shattered that it's all over. The chase to the top can be better than trying to stay there. Our challenge is how long will the next era of domination take to achieve. And I'm not referring to next year.
 
VEEDUBS said:
Yes, let it go... for a while anyway. Time to rebuild and accept we have been awesome. Hawks did not lose the bset player in the comp. en route to that flag, and had some pretty handy key power forwards and defenders.

I have peace of mind that we can enjoywhat we have achieved, and not be shattered that it's all over. The chase to the top can be better than trying to stay there. Our challenge is how long will the next era of domination take to achieve. And I'm not referring to next year.
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Agreed VEEDUBS. Fresh kids, different coach and an evolving gameplan for what's coming through will be exciting in the future.
 
I understand that the time to rebuild is now. However, that doesn't mean we are going to discard Scarlett, Chapman, Enright, Bartel, Kelly, Johnson etc now because we don't think they will be there for the next era of greatness. And while these guys are still there, we are still a premiership chance.

I firmly believe that the Pies success this year had more to do with a good game plan than a bunch of star players. Other clubs will work out how to unravel that game plan and the Pies will come back to the pack, possibly as soon as next year. If that happens then I believe the Cats are still as well placed as anyone to grab another flag.

It may be seen as pinching a premiership with an ageing team but it's not like you wouldn't be happy to take it if the opportunity presented itself.
 
What about we look at our own history for inspiration

1999 - Lost our coach and best player but had a good draft, made finals next year then year after had one of the best drafts ever which went onto form one of the best sides ever.

2010 - Lost coach and best player have a number of draft picks that will allow us to restock our young talent over time, no pressure Wellsy but you need to have some of your best years in the next two or three for us
 
I am struggling with the Collingwood victory. My best mate is one eyed, and all I ever hear from him now is "Did someone say Dynasty?" at the end of every conversation follow by that arrogant smug look every Colligwood supporter is sporting these days. I would like nothing more for history to repeat next year and wipe that look of his face.
 
Cats Pyjamas said:
I understand that the time to rebuild is now. However, that doesn't mean we are going to discard Scarlett, Chapman, Enright, Bartel, Kelly, Johnson etc now because we don't think they will be there for the next era of greatness. And while these guys are still there, we are still a premiership chance.

I firmly believe that the Pies success this year had more to do with a good game plan than a bunch of star players. Other clubs will work out how to unravel that game plan and the Pies will come back to the pack, possibly as soon as next year. If that happens then I believe the Cats are still as well placed as anyone to grab another flag.

It may be seen as pinching a premiership with an ageing team but it's not like you wouldn't be happy to take it if the opportunity presented itself.
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Those you named will not be discarded, but others should be, but moreover, with a full available list to select in this year's finals, minus Max, we were way below standard.
 
I know I'm gonna sound like Bosk or Hodgepodge now, but you CANNOT compare us to the Hawks of the '80's. Seven Grand Finals in a row from '83 to '89 for four wins including one back-to-back win.

And one back-to-back loss which we didn't manage either;)

It's a fair point you make that we CAN come back after a year of not contesting a Granny but all other comparisons just aint there.
 

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Cats Pyjamas said:
I understand that the time to rebuild is now. However, that doesn't mean we are going to discard Scarlett, Chapman, Enright, Bartel, Kelly, Johnson etc now because we don't think they will be there for the next era of greatness. And while these guys are still there, we are still a premiership chance.

I firmly believe that the Pies success this year had more to do with a good game plan than a bunch of star players. Other clubs will work out how to unravel that game plan and the Pies will come back to the pack, possibly as soon as next year. If that happens then I believe the Cats are still as well placed as anyone to grab another flag.

It may be seen as pinching a premiership with an ageing team but it's not like you wouldn't be happy to take it if the opportunity presented itself.
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This
 
whoopsman said:
If channel Ten are doing next years grand final then I say yes we can win it next year.
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HA HA..yeah, i think same thing...Cats have NEVER won a Premiership when Channel 7 is the one hosting it.



Im only 28 so dont know much about footy form 80's...was Single digits back then..but I know a bit and how Hawks were amazing...BUT...were there any other POWER teams of the time...i know Carlton and Essendon won Premierships..but did Carlton press EVERY year in 80's and Essendon...who else were teh Power Teams...

2010 you Have PIES, Saints, Cats, Dogs, Hawks...pretty much playing at their best..all are BRILLIANT..in the 80's was there quality teams every year like now hell bent on stopping Hawthorn???.

Guess what im asking is...Did Hawthorn have an easy run to make 7 GF's in a row...its an amazing feat and you can only play whos there on the day and everything...but seriously...if there were 2 teams who were good and the rest crap...it makes getting to the GF easier doesnt it. They were a great team, but didnt win every year so is shows that they wernt an AMAZING team....

I dunno....someone teach me.....
 
ROCKETT24 said:
HA HA..yeah, i think same thing...Cats have NEVER won a Premiership when Channel 7 is the one hosting it.



Im only 28 so dont know much about footy form 80's...was Single digits back then..but I know a bit and how Hawks were amazing...BUT...were there any other POWER teams of the time...i know Carlton and Essendon won Premierships..but did Carlton press EVERY year in 80's and Essendon...who else were teh Power Teams...

2010 you Have PIES, Saints, Cats, Dogs, Hawks...pretty much playing at their best..all are BRILLIANT..in the 80's was there quality teams every year like now hell bent on stopping Hawthorn???.

Guess what im asking is...Did Hawthorn have an easy run to make 7 GF's in a row...its an amazing feat and you can only play whos there on the day and everything...but seriously...if there were 2 teams who were good and the rest crap...it makes getting to the GF easier doesnt it. They were a great team, but didnt win every year so is shows that they wernt an AMAZING team....

I dunno....someone teach me.....
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There's no doubting they were one of the greatest teams in history but I don't think any team can make 7 GFs without a fair amount of luck. Here's a summary of each year and my opinion on whether or not I thought they got a bit lucky.....

That Hawthorn era probably began in 1982 when they finished 2nd to Richmond after the H&A rounds but missed the GF after losing to Carlton twice in the finals...so maybe unlucky not to be 8 GFs in a row!

By 1983 they were clearly the best team, even though North were minor premiers. The Hawks thumped Essendon in the GF by 83 points so no luck involved there.

In 1984 they finished a clear 2nd (4 wins ahead of 3rd placed Carlton) and beat Essendon in the 2nd Semi before losing to them in the Grand Final....once again deserving Grand Finalists.

In 1985 Essendon was a mile ahead of everyone else. You could argue that the Hawks were a bit lucky to make the GF as Footscray finished 2nd after the H&A rounds but didn't have the finals experience and lost a close Prelim Final to the Hawks.

In 1986 the Bombers fell away leaving the Hawks to finish on top of the ladder as the standout team. Sydney finished 2nd thanks to Dr Edelsten's efforts to buy them a premiership but couldn't win a final in Melbourne. Carlton re-emerged as a power after recruiting three young stars from SA (Kernahan, Bradley & Motley) but got knocked off by the Hawks in the GF. Once again, no luck involved there.

In 1987 it was another Blues/Hawks Grand Final but this time the Blues were too good. Even though Hawthorn finished 2nd they were lucky to make the GF as they got there with a goal after the siren in the Prelim Final against Melbourne when Gary Buckenara received a 15m penalty after Jimmy Stynes ran across the mark. So very lucky although you could argue they deserved to be there being the 2nd best team all year.

No arguments about 1988. They finished 4 games clear on top and demolished Melbourne by 96 points in the GF. Luck obviously had nothing to do with that one.

And of course there was 1989. All us Cats fans will probably say they were lucky to win the premiership but we can't argue that they didn't deserve to make the GF. The Hawks actually finished 2 games clear on top ahead of Essendon so you could say that they deserved to win the flag despite our gallant effort in the Grand Final.

So there you have it. I would say that they deserved most of those Grand Final berths but might have been lucky in '85 & '87 that they came up against inexperienced finals teams in the Prelims.
 
So they didnt just make the Finals, and then play thier best footy in September???

I think, despite how good Brisbane were...they never finished top of the ladder, and if it wasnt for Port Choking, I doube whether they would ahve won 2002 2003. We may have seen Port win 3 in a row, its juts that they choked and Brisbane were September Specialists.

I know that winning records dont count for squat in the long run, people only remember Premierships, not McClelland's.

I only really started gettign into footy in Mid 1989 (i was 7) and saw the Cats team absulutely punching the wind out of the Hawks, so I thought (as any 7yo does i spose) they are real tough, im going to go for that team. Heartache and copping crap from everyone until 07 onwards.

Ipersonally think that winning Premierships cant be the only judge of how great a team is...AA's, Brownlows, Winning %, everything really...but its ahrd to place the Cats anywhere yet because its not known whether this great Empire is over.

I just did some quick figures off ALLTHESTATS.com...i dont like putting websites on but this one is a beauty...great for all afl stats...but...the best 4 year period EVER in VFL/AFL HISTORY shows us that.

Collingwood 1927 - 1930 = 87.500% Win Rate
Melbourne - 1954 - 1958 = 80.247% Win Rate
Hawthorn - 1986 - 1989 = 81.818% Win Rate
Essendon - 1998 - 2001 = 76.531% Win Rate
Brisbane - 2001 - 2004 = 74.257% Win Rate
Geelong - 2007 - 2010 = 83.000% Win Rate

I think what im starting to get into is for a diff thread, but you can see that, except for THE MACHINE...the Cats are the team wiht the 2nd greatest win rate for 4 seasons...however, when it coes to BEST 100 GAMES...

Collingwood = 81.188% Win Rate
Melbourne = 79.2087% Win Rate
Hawthorn = 81.818% Win Rate
Essendon = 76.531% Win Rate
Brisbane = 74.257% Win Rate
Geelong = 83.000% Win Rate

Melbourne - 6 Premierships in Best Period
Hawthorn - 5 Premierships
Collingwood - 4 Premierships
Brisbane - 3 Premierships
Geelong - 2 Premierships*** (Not finished yet)
Essendon - 1 Premiership

Think this is stuff for a "Greatest Team Of All" thread....any links???

Sorry for crapping on...i juts love this stuff.

GO CATS!!!!!!!!
 

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