Society/Culture Horse racing is cruel

[rank and file]

If we exclude feral or introduced examples, what place do you see for horses given that they don't serve a purpose in transport or racing anymore?

They can become show jumpers,go in the Olympics and win gold for Australia.

 

[Saint]

Not sure how the racing industry is worse than the meat or pet industry (including people keeping a horse on their farm for riding). I'd suggest it's far better than all of that.

The animals have the highest levels of care (Japanese racing industry imports their feed from Victoria as its seen as the best source in the world).

So many horses get re-homed after racing careers, riding clubs would be in dire straits if not for retired race horses (or never-raced thoroughbreds).

Highest levels of vet care, feed and daily high levels of attention. A far better existence than in the wild looking for feed, predators etc.

There's work to be done, and improvements to be made around reducing injuries but that's true for all sports.

 

[Taylor]

They can become show jumpers,go in the Olympics and win gold for Australia.

Don't show jumpers have an even higher rate of death in competition than horse racing does?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Not sure if you aware but they dont just grab horses off the wild and race them. They are bred specifically for profit, the horses exist only to race and, if they survive that and are worth breeding they are used for that until they are no longer profitable. And then its either dog meat or someone saves it.

how is that any different from a cow or pig or sheep that is specifically bred for meat? as long as slaughter houses are doing it as cleanly and painlessly as possible (and this was an issue with some dodgy operators thanks to the NSW issues), its wrong to put horses on a higher standard of care just because they are pretty

 

[FIGJAM]

Not sure if you aware but they dont just grab horses off the wild and race them. They are bred specifically for profit, the horses exist only to race and, if they survive that and are worth breeding they are used for that until they are no longer profitable. And then its either dog meat or someone saves it.

Which is precisely why the racing bodies need to ensure that horses are looked after from birth to death, whether they are race-worthy or not. I'd be very much in favour of banning whips as is being mooted here in Victoria.

There has been a symbiotic relationship between humans and horses for over 5500 years (probably longer). I'm sure they've been involved in games and racing for about that long too!

For mine, the binary conclusion that horse racing is 'cruel' or 'not cruel' is idiotic. You can't ignore the fact that for the most part, there is love of the owners, handlers, trainers etc., nor the good quality of life that they have with stabled environs and paddocks fenced from predators, fed well, vets. They often lead a life full of love.

Of course, it is also fair to say that there are complete ****wits out there who do the inverse of what the majority does. All about capitalisation, systemic cheating and poor treatment can of course occur. This can also happen with human athletes (although they stop short of sending them for slaughter). Obviously horses are more likely than jockeys to suffer severe injury and due to their inability to recover from a lot of injury types, death is sadly significantly higher.

I think racing can exist going forward with the continued effort of individuals and organisations to elevate the care and treatment of all animals to the highest standard. Of course there will always be deaths of horses whist racing, but there are also major injury and death risks with horses simply playing in a paddock! We need to ensure that the human contribution of love and care for all racing horses far supersedes the risks associated with racing.

 

[rank and file]

Don't show jumpers have an even higher rate of death in competition than horse racing does?

My favourite Jane Fonda quote from
"They shoot horses don't they?"

 

[iBeng]

how is that any different from a cow or pig or sheep that is specifically bred for meat? as long as slaughter houses are doing it as cleanly and painlessly as possible (and this was an issue with some dodgy operators thanks to the NSW issues), its wrong to put horses on a higher standard of care just because they are pretty

Morally, the horses are being bred soley for the purpose of making profit, so in essence a life, a living thing, is being used for money and then discarded once no longer viable. I get the comparison to animals that are purposely bred for food, they are obviously a profitable objective for the breeders. Certainly its the main focal point for when Vegans argue to stop the meat industry. Most would argue that its just an advanced form of hunting, where we have domesticated our primary hunted produce.

Its definitely a moral minefield. Horses being bred for racing vs animals being bred for feeding humans.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Morally, the horses are being bred soley for the purpose of making profit, so in essence a life, a living thing, is being used for money and then discarded once no longer viable. I get the comparison to animals that are purposely bred for food, they are obviously a profitable objective for the breeders. Certainly its the main focal point for when Vegans argue to stop the meat industry. Most would argue that its just an advanced form of hunting, where we have domesticated our primary hunted produce.

Its definitely a moral minefield. Horses being bred for racing vs animals being bred for feeding humans.

way i look at it is something is being killed for my steak or my dogs dinner. if its not horse, it will be something else

BUT, i do have an issue with killing stuff for zero outcome. ideally we should only kill as required, not just because its possible. killing male calves because you dont want them is horrible, as is drowning greyhound pups or any factory farmed pets just because you have no buyer.

one thing i would like to see is greater ownership of responsibility around breeding of animals. anything not sold for intended use or used for meat has to be justified imo (and rendering is not acceptable). yes, shit will happen with unexpected deaths or serious injuries. but deliberate over-breeding should result in sanctions and bans

 

[Saint]

Morally, the horses are being bred soley for the purpose of making profit, so in essence a life, a living thing, is being used for money and then discarded once no longer viable. I get the comparison to animals that are purposely bred for food, they are obviously a profitable objective for the breeders. Certainly its the main focal point for when Vegans argue to stop the meat industry. Most would argue that its just an advanced form of hunting, where we have domesticated our primary hunted produce.

Its definitely a moral minefield. Horses being bred for racing vs animals being bred for feeding humans.

Not that it's morally ok. But for thousands of years, female babies were killed for being not economically viable.

The alternative to these horses being bred and raced is that they're never bred at all. The moral question for me is

Is it better to breed a horse for a life of racing or not to breed them at all?

I'm not saying they'll go extinct. There's a movement of humans called anti-natal which is that humans would be better off never-born and they advocate for no more human reproduction. We're all in a race of some sort which involves degrees of pain and degrees of joy.

 

[iBeng]

Not that it's morally ok. But for thousands of years, female babies were killed for being not economically viable.

The alternative to these horses being bred and raced is that they're never bred at all. The moral question for me is

Is it better to breed a horse for a life of racing or not to breed them at all?

I'm not saying they'll go extinct. There's a movement of humans called anti-natal which is that humans would be better off never-born and they advocate for no more human reproduction. We're all in a race of some sort which involves degrees of pain and degrees of joy.

Its an interesting quandary, since is a life not created a life lost or simply just something that wasn't? I have only one child, because I didn't have more me and my wife, at this stage, represent a -1 to population growth when we die. Hence why birth rates are dropping in many developed nations, as well as other factors of course.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

what would happen to the horses if they weren’t racing?

If there was no racing they wouldn't be bred in the first place.

 

[tandino]

Does hypocrisy make you wrong?

I'm always right.

 

[Gethelred]

I'm always right.

Fair enough.

 

[Engimal v3]

I used to attend the races for many years as a young lad until I realised how cruelly racing greyhounds are treated.

 

[M Malice]

Horse is a winner/money earner >


Horse is a loser/money drain >

 

[Seeds]

I think horse racing is not cruel per se.

But I think when you add big money to the equation (i.e. the racing industry as it exists now) then the temptation for people to do things contrary to animal welfare becomes too great, and based on available evidence, impossible to police.

Not easy to ban. Not easy to reform. Status quo likely to continue for a long time I think.

Since when has there been horse racing without big money? Thats all horse racing is about. No one actually cares about the athleticism of a horse. Its about the gambling. Thats why horses are unequally handicapped.

 

[Seeds]

Not sure how the racing industry is worse than the meat or pet industry (including people keeping a horse on their farm for riding). I'd suggest it's far better than all of that.

The animals have the highest levels of care (Japanese racing industry imports their feed from Victoria as its seen as the best source in the world).

So many horses get re-homed after racing careers, riding clubs would be in dire straits if not for retired race horses (or never-raced thoroughbreds).

Highest levels of vet care, feed and daily high levels of attention. A far better existence than in the wild looking for feed, predators etc.

There's work to be done, and improvements to be made around reducing injuries but that's true for all sports.

Horses die often in races for human entertainment. Its no different to monkeys and tigers in circuses except the deaths in circuses is probably lower. focusing only on how they are treated outside the arena is incomplete.

 

[Saint]

Horses die often in races for human entertainment. Its no different to monkeys and tigers in circuses except the deaths in circuses is probably lower. focusing only on how they are treated outside the arena is incomplete.

But the reason circuses is problematic is that the tigers and big animals, and probably the monkeys live in cages which can be cruel.

Horses would break their legs and be left for dead in the wild all the time. I'm not sure there's an industry involving animals, including people with their pets at home, who take better care of their animals than race horses, and that includes when they're raced. No owner wants to see their horse die or be injured, ever.

I've never heard of a race horse getting loose from the property and hit by a car running across the road. I guess it would have happened, but not on the scale of domestic pets.

People kill themselves regularly running marathons or riding their bike for exercise.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Horses like running but when they want to, not around a racetrack with some little dick on board. There’s wild brumbies in abundance in the wild so don’t think extinction is a worry. My dad was involved in horse racing with some friends years ago and so was I. It’s a very cruel game make no mistake and financial interest always takes precedence over animal welfare...always.

 

[Seeds]

It's naturally that way. Human nature to try to take advantage. Do it to them before they do it to you.

You worried the horses will rise up and defeat us if we dont parade them around a track?

 

[Cactus_]

Since when has there been horse racing without big money? Thats all horse racing is about. No one actually cares about the athleticism of a horse. Its about the gambling. Thats why horses are unequally handicapped.

I don’t disagree with you.

In a different parallel universe where people raced horses for the pure pleasure of it (just like some people like to go bush walking, and other people like playing lawn bowls) I think I might be OK with it.

In this universe, where it is 99.95% about money and maybe 0.05% about amazingly athletic animals doing what hey do best ... yeah, it is morally indefensible.

There are a lot of morally indefensible things in this broken world ... which one should we try to fix first?

 

[Cactus_]

You worried the horses will rise up and defeat us if we dont parade them around a track?

Have you read the fourth part of Gulliver’s Travels? You might quite like it.

Spoiler: Spoiler

Gulliver goes and lives with a race of noble and enlightened talking horse, and grows to despise the filthy, despicable ways of human beings

 

[Snake_Baker]

I have an exquisite view from the top of the food chain.

 

[RobbieK]

I have an exquisite view from the top of the food chain.

View attachment 1011813

Might is right, yeah?

 

[Snake_Baker]

Might is right, yeah?