Society/Culture Horse racing is cruel

[Goosecat]

tbf a high % of people who work in the racing industry are animal lovers and treat the horses extremely well. The problem is like with life in general those good stories are not glamorous to report about in the media, the negative stories are.

Similar to the age care industry

On an overall level horse racing is no more cruel than domesticating animals and keeping them as pets. In majority of the cases the animals are treated as well as humans and in a small percentage of cases they are treated badly. Kind of sums up life in general tbh

Absolute rubbish. This type of line is continually trotted out to an uneducated public and frankly uneducated horse "lovers" within the industry itself.

Nothing can ever escape the reality of the industry involving purposely breeding "Nervous Energy" animals. The entire racing concept regarding horses is based on it. Not seeking to breed fine temperament, calm animals, but to breed high strung, nervous energy, flight response animals which makes them FAST.
The people within the industry think this is FINE. They grow up around such animals most of their lives and believe the behaviour and nervous, high strung, spook characteristics are "Magnificent" specimens sporned from love. The industry is literally full of people claiming to be the exceptional horse "lover" that simply in reality are anything but and are not true animal lovers at all.

These same people then assign animals to trainers who spend years utilising "pressure" to make the animal ADRENALISE. You know, like you might do when faced with a whip and frightened into running around just a little longer, just a little more on that track, in that yard, through the sand. Build those muscles, adrenalise and then run, run like the wind, even until you break, all based on a level of FEAR and FLIGHT response.

The same groups then map out programs involving moving the horse up and down through levels once it's full ability is known to enhance the returns possible. This includes deliberate running in certain track positions so as not to allow the best performance, deliberate changing of preparations, feed supplements and drug intake to achieve results enabling a horse to appear genuinely out of it's current class. The horse goes down a class and then the game changes to building up properly for a number of success that enables larger wages with more certainty that only the trainers, owners and staff really know, hence the well known and hugely important ever present "INSIDE KNOWLEDGE". This is the industry reality behind the tiny Group 1 percentage of racing that the public, media and uneducated have in their minds when thinking about the subject.
It's a straight out scumbag industry, period and half the so called "good" people who genuinely believe in their minds they are, are actually cruelty perpetrators without even knowing it.

Now let's breed another nervous energy, high strung horse we can pump for 5 years "isn't it amazing" and then wonder why so many simply cannot be successfully placed after their careers, whilst having another 15-20 years of "non income" earning life started by the racing industry. The people claiming love in this game are in reality uneducated, ill equipped and oblivious, or straight out liars!!

 

[Lethality]

On an overall level horse racing is no more cruel than domesticating animals and keeping them as pets.

Only horse ownership is on a par with other pet ownership, in that there are always abusive owners, and it's literally the same as owning a dog or a cat. You take care of the animal and enjoy its companionship.

Horse racing adds a whole other level of systemic abuse that regular pet ownership doesn't have, where the animals are whipped and raced to injury and death for profit year round. Then there's the thousands that are sold to slaughterhouses because their career is over, or they weren't well bred.

 

[woota]

Absolute rubbish. This type of line is continually trotted out to an uneducated public and frankly uneducated horse "lovers" within the industry itself.
Nothing can ever escape the reality of the industry involving purposely breeding "Nervous Energy" animals. The entire racing concept regarding horses is based on it. Not seeking to breed fine temperament, calm animals but to breed high strung, nervous energy, flight response animals which makes them FAST.
The people within the industry think this is FINE. They grow up around such animals most of their lives and believe the behaviour and nervous, high strung, spook characteristics are "Magnificent" specimens sporned from love. The industry is literally full of people claiming to be the exceptional horse "lover" that simply in reality are anything but and are not true animal lovers at all.

These same people then assign animals to trainers who spend years utilising "pressure" to make the animal ADRENALISE. You know, like you might do when faced with a whip and frightened into running around just a little longer, just a little more on that track, in that yard, through the sand. Build those muscles, adrenalise and then run, run like the wind, even until you break, all based on a level FEAR and FLIGHT response.
The same groups then map out programs involving moving the horse up and down through levels once it's full ability is known to enhance the returns possible.
This includes deliberate running in certain track positions so as not to allow the best performance, deliberate changing of preparations and feed supplements, and drug intake to achieve results enabling a horse to appear genuinely out of it's current class. The horse goes down a class and then the game changes to building up properly for a number of success that can be bet bigger on with more certainty and provide the big returns.
It's a straight out scumbag industry, period and half the so called "good"people who genuinely believe in their minds they are, are actually cruelty perpetrators simply by being involved. Now let's breed another nervous energy horse we can pump for 5 years "isn't it amazing" and then wonder why so many simply cannot be successfully placed after their careers whilst having another 15-20 years of "non income" earning life started by the racing industry. The people claiming love in this game are in reality uneducated fools, or straight out liars!!

On the subject of selectively breeding animals to attain the desired traits, do you think there is cruelty involved in the breeding of working canines as well - especially with regard to military and police working dogs? I've never owned a german shepherd or spent much time around them, but from what I have heard, GSD from working lines have a similar temperament to the racing horses you describe, with a lot of "nervous energy", and are actually a little neurotic.

Also, I imagine that the desired temperament in a police horse is very different from a racing horse, but do you think there is cruelty involved in the breeding and training of police horses as well?

 

[Goosecat]

On the subject of selectively breeding animals to attain the desired traits, do you think there is cruelty involved in the breeding of working canines as well - especially with regard to military and police working dogs? I've never owned a german shepherd or spent much time around them, but from what I have heard, GSD from working lines have a similar temperament to the racing horses you describe, with a lot of "nervous energy", and are actually a little neurotic.

Also, I imagine that the desired temperament in a police horse is very different from a racing horse, but do you think there is cruelty involved in the breeding and training of police horses as well?

In short YES.

Don't even get me started on what is now being done to the German Shepherd breeding stocks and the "low back end", for purported "Drive" characteristic. Think back on the German Shepherd you imagine and then go have a look at the latest show breed lines. Take a a good look at hind-leg to fore-leg variance and hip to shoulder height. There is no more relatively even leg distribution enabling physical balance and longevity. The back end is LOW, on purpose with all the extra burdens placed on joints, muscles and the overall body that goes with that.

I am not even a fan of sending in trained animals to war zones. What gives humans the right to start wars and then send in "SACRIFICIAL" animals where we can't or won't use humans. We start it, and then throw certain animals to their deaths as a side note! Fantastic!!

 

[woota]

In short YES.

Don't even get me started on what is now being done to the German Shepherd breeding stocks and the "low back end", for "purported "Drive" characteristic. Think back on the German Shepherd you imagine and then go have a look at the latest show breed lines. Take a a good look at hind-leg to for-leg variance. There is no more relatively even leg distribution enabling physical balance and longevity. The back end is LOW, on purpose with all the extra burdens placed on joints, muscles and the overall body that goes with that.

I am not even a fan of sending in trained animals to war zones. What gives humans the right to start wars and then send in "SACRIFICIAL" animals where we can't or won't use humans. We start it, and then throw certain animals to their deaths as a side note! Fantastic!!

Damn, I never knew the low hindquarters were deliberately bred into the GSD. I thought it was like some kind of side effect that occured over countless generations of breeding. I always thought it looks absolutely terrible though, and if you look at old photos of the original german shepherds (the ones that were actually bred in germany) they have a much more balanced appearance, without that horrible downslope at the back end.

What about police horses though, do you think it's cruel or not? It always struck me as cruel forcing horses to deal with crowds of violent, rowdy bogans that no human even wants to deal with.

 

[Goosecat]

Damn, I never knew the low hindquarters were deliberately bred into the GSD. I thought it was like some kind of side effect that occured over countless generations of breeding. I always thought it looks absolutely terrible though, and if you look at old photos of the original german shepherds (the ones that were actually bred in germany) they have a much more balanced appearance, without that horrible downslope at the back end.

What about police horses though, do you think it's cruel or not? It always struck me as cruel forcing horses to deal with crowds of violent, rowdy bogans that no human even wants to deal with.

Look we could go around forever looking at human utilisation of other animals. The reality is, as with all things in life, there are nuances and variables to each user case.
Are police horses at times forced into high stress situations? the answer is obviously yes. Are there criminal, scamming, trainers/owners involved? Are the animals deliberately bred to be nervous and high strung, or a we looking for calm, controlled breeding? Is there a societal need? Can they be more easily Re-homed at career end? What are the total numbers? The comparisons go on and on. At the end of the day you're comparing apples with oranges.
Horse racing is a whole other ball game!

 

[Gough]

One of the most heartbreaking things I've seen in sport happened at Caulfield, spring of 1989 or 90. A feature race for mares contained a Perth horse with a very good record. Can't recall the name, might've been Pacific something. The horse must've broken down past the finish line; I'm watching through binoculars from the top of the grandstand and there's a young guy in a suit, beside himself with grief, running this way and that. He must've been told by the vets that his horse needed to be euthanased since the screen was being put up. The gun must've come out, because the guy ran away and put his hands over his ears, so as not to hear the shot. The gun went off and he turned and ran back; the screen parted slightly to allow him entry and he threw himself down on the body of the horse.

It was like watching a very sad silent movie, all the more poignant because the rest of the crowd seemed oblivious, and brought home how much the horses mean to (some of) their owners like nothing else could've.

He'd probably just worked out how much stake money this was going to cost him.

 

[Lethality]

Business as usual.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Business as usual.

Are you lot protesting against animal cruelty, or the existence of abattoirs generally?

If the latter, what else do you expect your pets to eat?

 

[Lebbo73]

Are you lot protesting against animal cruelty, or the existence of abattoirs generally?

If the latter, what else do you expect your pets to eat?

I was just about to post this. I wonder what their cats and/or dogs think when they put out a plate of soybeans for them?

 

[Lethality]

Are you lot protesting against animal cruelty, or the existence of abattoirs generally?

If the latter, what else do you expect your pets to eat?

In this case the protest is against an industry that relies on killing horses to provide entertainment for us. It's not allowed in Hollywood, or in circuses. The same standard should apply to sports.

Providing meat where it's essential, such as feeding pets, is another matter. However, these days there is fake meat which passes as good enough for humans to eat. It should be good enough for cats and dogs.

 

[woota]

In this case the protest is against an industry that relies on killing horses to provide entertainment for us. It's not allowed in Hollywood, or in circuses. The same standard should apply to sports.

Providing meat where it's essential, such as feeding pets, is another matter. However, these days there is fake meat which passes as good enough for humans to eat. It should be good enough for cats and dogs.

From a nutritional perspective, fake meat is no substitute for real meat, and certainly isn't good enough for carnivorous animals like cats and dogs.

 

[RobbieK]

One of the most heartbreaking things I've seen in sport happened at Caulfield, spring of 1989 or 90. A feature race for mares contained a Perth horse with a very good record. Can't recall the name, might've been Pacific something. The horse must've broken down past the finish line; I'm watching through binoculars from the top of the grandstand and there's a young guy in a suit, beside himself with grief, running this way and that. He must've been told by the vets that his horse needed to be euthanased since the screen was being put up. The gun must've come out, because the guy ran away and put his hands over his ears, so as not to hear the shot. The gun went off and he turned and ran back; the screen parted slightly to allow him entry and he threw himself down on the body of the horse.

It was like watching a very sad silent movie, all the more poignant because the rest of the crowd seemed oblivious, and brought home how much the horses mean to (some of) their owners like nothing else could've.

If he really loved that horse then he probably should have spared it from the stresses and dangers of racing that led to its untimely and unnecessary death.

 

[Lethality]

From a nutritional perspective, fake meat is no substitute for real meat, and certainly isn't good enough for carnivorous animals like cats and dogs.

It's been working for me.

 

[woota]

It's been working for me.

That's what they all say in the beginning. See youtube ex vegans for more info

 

[Ron The Bear]

In this case the protest is against an industry that relies on killing horses

That's a fundamental misunderstanding on your part.

 

[RobbieK]

That's what they all say in the beginning. See youtube ex vegans for more info

There have been cultures for millenia who didn't eat meat. It isn't necessary for a long and healthy life.

 

[Lethality]

That's a fundamental misunderstanding on your part.

Hundreds die each year in Australia, and that's just on the racetrack. The two are inextricably linked.

 

[Lethality]

That's what they all say in the beginning. See youtube ex vegans for more info

Australians aren't eating enough fruit and vegetables, a shift to veganism would address this far bigger nutritional deficit.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Hundreds die each year in Australia, and that's just on the racetrack. The two are inextricably linked.

Players suffer crushing disappointments, terrible injuries and mental health problems in the high-pressure environment of professional football. Not to mention the toxic masculinity the industry breeds. Let's shut it down for the greater good.

You can laugh, but it differs little from your perspective.

 

[Lethality]

Players suffer crushing disappointments, terrible injuries and mental health problems in the high-pressure environment of professional football. Not to mention the toxic masculinity the industry breeds. Let's shut it down for the greater good.

You can laugh, but it differs little from your perspective.

No need, toxic masculinity is already on the way out of AFL, and with that comes a greater awareness and treatment of mental health problems. These things can be separated from AFL. You'll never get horse killings out of horse racing.

But the key difference is that players know the stakes, and choose to participate.

 

[RobbieK]

Players suffer crushing disappointments, terrible injuries and mental health problems in the high-pressure environment of professional football. Not to mention the toxic masculinity the industry breeds. Let's shut it down for the greater good.

You can laugh, but it differs little from your perspective.

Players consent to participate in that environment. They can choose to stop if they don't want to continue. The animals don't. If they don't perform they get killed.

I'm not laughing. That's a pitiful comparison.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Players consent to participate in that environment. They can choose to stop if they don't want to continue. The animals don't. If they don't perform they get killed.

I'm not laughing. That's a pitiful comparison.

Horses don't know they're being trained. Self-awareness is what distinguishes man from animal.

 

[RobbieK]

Horses don't know they're being trained. Self-awareness is what distinguishes man from animal.

They know pain and suffering. Humans are animals. For all our self awareness we still inflict pain and suffering on other sentient creatures purely for our own entertainment.

 

[Ron The Bear]

They know pain and suffering. Humans are animals. For all our self awareness we still inflict pain and suffering on other sentient creatures purely for our own entertainment.

We are simply poles apart on the way we perceive the sport. I'm happy to leave it at that, and you should be, too.

Maybe you should ask Chief to shut down the punting board.