How do fans of smaller clubs in big European leagues keep following/support a league where the same few teams always win it?

[Zidane98]

We've won:

1 first division title
1 FA Cup
3 League Cups

That's in 140 years of existence. Just because it's recent, doesn't mean it's impressive. No one is bandwagon supporting Leicester.

Thing is you don't need to win a trophy to have a good season. Think of Boro when they went on their cup runs. West Ham when they finished in the top 6.


It feels like a real achievement whereas the AFL manufactures its outcomes (or tries to do so).

 

[CURVE]

Surely RossFC is a fan of Ross County haha

We'll let him follow our club, but only if he is a genuine Ross and can trace his ancestry back to the Scottish highland regions of Easter and Wester Ross, or Ross & Cromarty as it's known today.

 

[Frank Bunn]

There's a different mindset amongst European football supporters than in Australia.

It's not just about which teams have chance of winning the Premier League or Champions League. There's also hundreds of thousands of fans of lower league teams who cheer their team on every week. Most of these clubs have a long history. There's the hope of success, which might mean promotion into the PL. But also the harsh reality of relegation dropping down the pyramid.

There's a different model of how the game is organised in Australia. The AFL and A League hold a monopoly on which clubs can play. Clubs are invented and cancelled by business case rather than results performance merit.

The AFL runs a business rather than being an administrator of a fair sporting competition. Equalisation is designed to provide close games and spread success around the clubs - in order to grow that business. But what it actually does is reward incompetence of the worst clubs, and also reduce the performance of the best clubs. The end result is a lot of average standard teams and substandard games.

Clubs get an advantage for performing badly. The draft, the fixture and the salary cap are all manipulated to maximise the 'growth of the game' ie profits.

 

[Zidane98]

There's a different mindset amongst European football supporters than in Australia.

It's not just about which teams have chance of winning the Premier League or Champions League. There's also hundreds of thousands of fans of lower league teams who cheer their team on every week. Most of these clubs have a long history. There's the hope of success, which might mean promotion into the PL. But also the harsh reality of relegation dropping down the pyramid.

There's a different model of how the game is organised in Australia. The AFL and A League hold a monopoly on which clubs can play. Clubs are invented and cancelled by business case rather than results performance merit.

The AFL runs a business rather than being an administrator of a fair sporting competition. Equalisation is designed to provide close games and spread success around the clubs - in order to grow that business. But what it actually does is reward incompetence of the worst clubs, and also reduce the performance of the best clubs. The end result is a lot of average standard teams and substandard games.

Clubs get an advantage for performing badly. The draft, the fixture and the salary cap are all manipulated to maximise the 'growth of the game' ie profits.

Pretty much spot on.

The AFL has its advantages from being a closed competition but the Premier League model is always going to be much better overall. Relegation, European places. Cup runs.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

There's a different mindset amongst European football supporters than in Australia.

It's not just about which teams have chance of winning the Premier League or Champions League. There's also hundreds of thousands of fans of lower league teams who cheer their team on every week. Most of these clubs have a long history. There's the hope of success, which might mean promotion into the PL. But also the harsh reality of relegation dropping down the pyramid.

There's a different model of how the game is organised in Australia. The AFL and A League hold a monopoly on which clubs can play. Clubs are invented and cancelled by business case rather than results performance merit.

The AFL runs a business rather than being an administrator of a fair sporting competition. Equalisation is designed to provide close games and spread success around the clubs - in order to grow that business. But what it actually does is reward incompetence of the worst clubs, and also reduce the performance of the best clubs. The end result is a lot of average standard teams and substandard games.

Clubs get an advantage for performing badly. The draft, the fixture and the salary cap are all manipulated to maximise the 'growth of the game' ie profits.

Don’t agree. For a closed end comp like AFL and say NFL a draft system is the way to go.

In AFL members are the owners not some regime who’s trying to polish their reputation, Russian gangsters, Americans who don’t understand or give a shit about the game. And look at some of the moronic nobodies trying to own lower division clubs for their own ego.

Anyway all sports have their good and bad points ..great thing is when one season ends another starts or continues. Why do we have to compare or criticise one?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I completely disagree with that statement. Just because you've cherry picked two close games, doesn't mean the gulf of talent isn't far larger in the Premier League than the AFL.

Not to mention that the AFL is far more cyclical in nature with the draft/FA/Salary cap. West Coast will be competitive again within the next 3-5 years. Luton will never compete at the top.

In the same time frame as the EPL there have been 15 AFL clubs win premierships. Everyone bar GCS has made a GF in that time as well.

Would take a lot longer for 20 clubs to finish top 2 in the EPL

 

[Jatz]

In the same time frame as the EPL there have been 15 AFL clubs win premierships. Everyone bar GCS has made a GF in that time as well.

Would take a lot longer for 20 clubs to finish top 2 in the EPL

Yeah but cup runs

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Yeah but cup runs

Yeah but Wizard Cups

 

[Jatz]

Yeah but Wizard Cups

The best kind of cup run

 

[RossFC]

We'll let him follow our club, but only if he is a genuine Ross and can trace his ancestry back to the Scottish highland regions of Easter and Wester Ross, or Ross & Cromarty as it's known today.

I'm a legit Ross, but it traces back to Greece. (Lazaros)

 

[jod23]

To answer the original post.... in short, no idea.

It must actually suck.

 

[Topkent]

The Premier League as a whole is 1000 X the entertainment product of AFL. s**t teams in AFL regularly suffer blowouts and it's a bore.

Teams down the bottom regularly give the very best teams a good game. Luton this year only lost in the last minute to Arsenal. Liverpool drew with Luton.

This is a club from the equivalent of Tullamarine with a 11k stadium receiving no support from the league.

That's an insane thing to say lol
Since 2000 only North, Carlton and GC haven't made a GF and 11 of the 18 teams have won the premiership.

Since 2000 there have been 6 winners of the PL and for the next 50 years it'll come from the same pool of 5 teams over and over again

Comparing it to AFL is insane. It's a game where both sides can go scoreless of course everyone's a chance.

 

[Zidane98]

That's an insane thing to say lol
Since 2000 only North, Carlton and GC haven't made a GF and 11 of the 18 teams have won the premiership.

Since 2000 there have been 6 winners of the PL and for the next 50 years it'll come from the same pool of 5 teams over and over again

Comparing it to AFL is insane. It's a game where both sides can go scoreless of course everyone's a chance.

So, on this basis we have the A League. Since Season 1 in 2005/2006 we have had every club (apart from defunct clubs Auckland/GCU/NQF) bar Macarthur & Wellington Phoenix be either Champions or Premiers. Macarthur FC themselves in their short history already have won the FFA Cup. Wellington Phoenix are the only club in A League history without a trophy to their name.

Surely applying your logic on the AFL this means the A-League is a superior competition to the Premier League. I'm sure Jatz agrees.


After all, salary cap, equalisation etc etc.

 

[Topkent]

So, on this basis we have the A League. Since Season 1 in 2005/2006 we have had every club (apart from defunct clubs Auckland/GCU/NQF) bar Macarthur & Wellington Phoenix be either Champions or Premiers. Macarthur FC themselves in their short history already have won the FFA Cup. Wellington Phoenix are the only club in A League history without a trophy to their name.

Surely applying your logic on the AFL this means the A-League is a superior competition to the Premier League. I'm sure Jatz agrees.


After all, salary cap, equalisation etc etc.

Well no, you made the comparison to AFL and called it 1000× the entertainment product.

The EPL and English football pyramid is better because each team has its own roots to a place and stadium. In terms of actual competitiveness it doesn't hold a candle to the AFL. 3-5 years from now WC or North could feasibly win a flag. Apart from a one on a million fluke Luton, Forest even Everton and WHam will never ever win the premier league ( again)

 

[Zidane98]

Well no, you made the comparison to AFL and called it 1000× the entertainment product.

The EPL and English football pyramid is better because each team has its own roots to a place and stadium. In terms of actual competitiveness it doesn't hold a candle to the AFL. 3-5 years from now WC or North could feasibly win a flag. Apart from a one on a million fluke Luton, Forest even Everton and WHam will never ever win the premier league ( again)

Well no, you just made the claim that because there's been so many different winners of the AFL that it's better, which incidentally what other posters were saying.

The A-League is one of the most competitive leagues in the world by far of any sport. Any of the top 6 are good enough to win the premiers plate. All teams regularly get a chance of winning because ultimately the very best players are sold to European clubs and new players are brought through youth systems.


So if you're going to make the argument that the AFL is better than the PL because of competition than you have to say that the A-League is better than the PL for the very same reason, if not more so.

 

[Jatz]

So, on this basis we have the A League. Since Season 1 in 2005/2006 we have had every club (apart from defunct clubs Auckland/GCU/NQF) bar Macarthur & Wellington Phoenix be either Champions or Premiers. Macarthur FC themselves in their short history already have won the FFA Cup. Wellington Phoenix are the only club in A League history without a trophy to their name.

Surely applying your logic on the AFL this means the A-League is a superior competition to the Premier League. I'm sure Jatz agrees.


After all, salary cap, equalisation etc etc.

The A League is more competitive between each club, yes.

 

[Frank Bunn]

The A League is more competitive between each club, yes.

Like I said, it's a different business model that is based on equalisation and 'growing the business' rather than sporting merit. Perhaps it's why no one outside Australia cares about the A League or the AFL.

 

[PerthBoy86]

Like I said, it's a different business model that is based on equalisation and 'growing the business' rather than sporting merit. Perhaps it's why no one outside Australia cares about the A League or the AFL.

Obviously that's not the reason. Aussie rules is an Australian sport, and indeed was only popular in the 4 southern states until recently (and parts of NSW). American football/gridiron is hardly played outside of the US/Canada, there are no professional leagues outside those countries, and it's huge in terms of money etc.