If a group brought a ticket to the AGM to overthrow the board, how would the voting process for that work? I was reading the Collingwood constitution and it says that ordinary members can vote, which voting to have the current board would be the only reason that I would have for having a membership in 2021. When will the next AGM be?
How We Can Hold The Club Accountable (Petition Added to OP)
- Thread starter Ant85
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Lefthanded
Premiership Player
- Sep 9, 2013
- 3,621
- 2,437
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
I applaud your sentiments and loyalty across this and your two posts on previous page but don't feel the club can move on if they haven't admitted to their mistakes (at least internally but probably to their members and fans too).
The lies from Ned about a plan to improve our draft position treat the general public and fans as if they are total morons. Who but the most blinkered would believe that we trade out two players who cost us three first round draft picks for very little in return as any sort of improvement other than potentially salary cap?
Then we have Buckley and Treloar contradicting each other. One is lying. I expect Buckley is towing the party line but compromising his integrity in the process. Is that who we think can get the best out of the remaining players as coach next year? I don't.
I think you and I have very different views on a coach's role. Ned might be list manager but does anyone believe that gives him sole responsibility for determining player value? Even Buckley has referred to a list management TEAM. I imagine that team would include Buckley, Walsh, Guy and possibly others like Hine.
Buckley would have a strong say in the type of players he wants. Does he want midfielders, speed, accurate kicks, key position players etc. He would have a strong say in which players get top $$ but I imagine it's more to Walsh and Guy as to the exact amounts. Buckley would have had a strong say in whether we keep guys like Treloar and Stephenson or trade out JDG. The entire list management team should have seen salary cap issues coming years ago but we've recruited Beams, signed Grundy to mega long term deal, extended Treloar etc.
We do agree that Buckley wouldn't want to have traded the players for peanuts but I firmly believe he was part of the list management team that didn't do enough to prevent it happening.
Lefthanded
Premiership Player
- Sep 9, 2013
- 3,621
- 2,437
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
I am not familiar with the bolded. Can you please share more about this ie where / what was reported? If his manager priced him out of the market surely it's our list management team's responsibility to offer him less than asking price.
Lefthanded
Premiership Player
- Sep 9, 2013
- 3,621
- 2,437
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
I remember talk about Phillips last year but not Treloar (could easily be my memory so I'm not disputing what you are saying). What I would find incredible is if they were exploring that last year only months after extending his contract for FIVE years.
Please see my response just above to devize about how you and I also imagine a coach's role to be quite different. I also find it hard to imagine that we could be the only club facing this issue because of this season and changes to TPP for 2021. Either we are the only ones contracting players on fixed $$ amounts rather than % of cap or there are other clubs with similar issues. Cats were closer than us this year to premiership but have room to offer Cameron a reported 950k per season. My understanding (and it could easily be false) is that players competition wide had to take cuts this year because of covid. Would this not be the same for next year if TPP is significantly different to originally expected? If TPP changes were to blame would the club not just come out and say sorry to the players (Treloar, Stephenson) but this has happened out of our control and the result is .... (again a hard sell if we are only club in that position). Club has grabbed hold of Kim's move to point blame away from themselves, if covid was contributing surely they'd be quick to point the finger there too. Their silence on blaming covid suggests to me it's not a factor.
The Herald Sun also tweeting to find out who’s started it. Have they not heard of Bigfooty?
I’m not responding to them as I have a fundamental dispute with their opinions on politics
It's up to 988 signatures. I have it from a very good source that the 100 social club members with voting rights target has been easily meet.
There's gonna been all sorts of crap flying once the petition is sent to the board.
There's gonna been all sorts of crap flying once the petition is sent to the board.
A bloke off the street is putting together a "ticket". Haha, good luck to him.
So now we have posters of opposition clubs feeling sorry for us. WTF happened?!
How has it come to this that this club once feared and revered become the sentiment of oppo supporters lament on our behalf?
In my 50 years on this planet, never ever have I seen this depth of low, we're now the likes of saints and dees. It has come to this now?!
There is not a snowflakes chance in hell that this will not come to a head, there is no known universe that the club will be able to ignore the sentiment.
How has it come to this that this club once feared and revered become the sentiment of oppo supporters lament on our behalf?
In my 50 years on this planet, never ever have I seen this depth of low, we're now the likes of saints and dees. It has come to this now?!
There is not a snowflakes chance in hell that this will not come to a head, there is no known universe that the club will be able to ignore the sentiment.
Post on EBW
Date Posted: 14:25 15/11/20 Sun
Author: Billy
Author Host/IP: NoHost / 165.225.226.149
Subject: State of the Nation by Mark Anderson
First and foremost, I hope that you and your family are staying safe and well.
I am writing to you today to further explain our 2020 AFL trade period decisions.
Our club’s approach to the trade period has caused angst for a number of our members and fans. I understand this reaction, as not all that we are attempting to do has been obvious or well explained. We will continue to communicate with you, our members, in a number of ways to provide information and the opportunity for you to ask questions.
One of these opportunities will be provided through our annual Member Forum.
As you know we conduct this event each year and this year’s forum will occur at some stage after the AFL Draft. The timing is not confirmed as we are looking for a COVID safe way to hold the meeting. Our hope is that we can conduct this meeting in person at the Holden Centre. If this is not possible, we will conduct the forum online. All of our key people will be in attendance to provide information and answer our member’s questions.
Before I delve into the detail of the trade period, I’d like to take a moment to personally thank Adam Treloar, Tom Phillips, Jaidyn Stephenson and Atu Bosenavulagi for their contribution to our club. I wish them the very best for the future. They have each made a very real contribution to our club.
Competing in an elite sport presents a unique challenge for clubs; the pursuit of excellence is rightly demanded by members, fans, coaches and the like, but the special relationships formed between players and fans is also something to be valued. This makes the departure of any player a difficult and emotional one – whether through trade, delisting, or retirement. We understandthis acutely. It happens every year.
Many members are wanting to understand the strategy behind our various trade decisions.
We are all proud of the regeneration of the team that has seen us play AFL finals in each of the last three years. As you know we made a Grand Final appearance in 2018, lost in a Preliminary Final in 2019 and this year bowed out in the Semi Finals. We believed that we could stay in and around the mark for some time but knew that to maximise our opportunity to win the premiership and build a sustainable future really difficult decisions were required.
Multiple factors played into our decision to release the four players.
Salary cap pressure was certainly a key part of the decision. This is common for teams in premiership contention and even for some who are not. Financial sacrifices were made to keep the list together but this could not be the ongoing solution. With a further reduction every club’s salary cap about to come due to the impacts due to COVID, this situation was going to be exacerbated.
Another was the anticipated evolution of the team. We expect to improve from within. Our program has done a wonderful job in developing a number of exciting and talented young players ready to assume more control of the team: Quaynor, Daicos, Sier, Kelly, Keane and Cal and Tyler Brown to name a few. These players have shown much promise over recent seasons, and we are very much looking forward to seeing each of them become regular features in our best 22.
Being realistic about the future was also something we felt was required.Despite the fantastic Elimination Final win only a few weeks ago in Perth, we fell well short in our Semi-Final against the Cats the following week. The unflattering result was not a reflection of our season but it could not be ignored, either.
As Collingwood GM of Football, Geoff Walsh, said a short time later: “We were a fair way off in the last game of 2020.That shows us we need to get better and improve our list. The best way to improve your list is via the draft”.
Of course, the other method is via trading and free agency. To be blunt, we found ourselves in a bind: we were without realistic access to the free agency market with our salary cap being at its limit. We have had quality players expressing interest in coming to our club, interest we could not realistically pursue due to our cap limitations.
This could not continue and so some tough and, frankly, painful decisions had to be made.
As List Manager Ned Guy has suggested, the outcome of the 2020 trade period is far from the end of our quest for immediate improvement and we are confident of taking an even stronger hand than we currently have to next month’s AFL national draft.
We are extremely excited by the prospect of bringing two first round draftees to Collingwood in 2021, something we have not done since drafting Jordan De Goey and Darcy Moore in the top 10 of the 2014 draft. Because of the talent at the top end of this year’s draft, this is one our recruiting team want to be in.
Further, with the salary cap relief created, we can aggressively attack the free agency market from next year on if we so wish.
All that being said, I am aware that many members will still hold a different perspective. We not only respect this - we value it. Within any high-performance environment it’s vital to be challenged, and it’s equally as important for our members to be heard. We know that the feedback being directed to the club comes from a place of great passion and care, not only for the club as a whole but for our players as well.
As Ned and Geoff have noted, the club has a certain level of responsibility to players and their management when discussing specifics with regards to potential trades, but it’s our responsibility to you – our members – that we explore ways in which we can take action based on your feedback.
We do not shy away from the responsibility that comes with these decisions. Ned, Geoff and other members of the recruiting and list management team made the tough calls for the right reasons and in the very best interest of our team and club. I absolutely respect their judgement and have the utmost confidence in their ability to reshape our list, open up new possibilities for growth and build off the plan that has been established.
We are working across every area of our club and football department to get better and as such, we all await the start of the 2021 season with much anticipation. As stated at the opening, we will continue to communicate with you as we lead into the national draft and beyond, as we build towards round one. Your support is greatly valued.
Kind regards,
Mark Anderson
Chief Executive Officer
Date Posted: 14:25 15/11/20 Sun
Author: Billy
Author Host/IP: NoHost / 165.225.226.149
Subject: State of the Nation by Mark Anderson
First and foremost, I hope that you and your family are staying safe and well.
I am writing to you today to further explain our 2020 AFL trade period decisions.
Our club’s approach to the trade period has caused angst for a number of our members and fans. I understand this reaction, as not all that we are attempting to do has been obvious or well explained. We will continue to communicate with you, our members, in a number of ways to provide information and the opportunity for you to ask questions.
One of these opportunities will be provided through our annual Member Forum.
As you know we conduct this event each year and this year’s forum will occur at some stage after the AFL Draft. The timing is not confirmed as we are looking for a COVID safe way to hold the meeting. Our hope is that we can conduct this meeting in person at the Holden Centre. If this is not possible, we will conduct the forum online. All of our key people will be in attendance to provide information and answer our member’s questions.
Before I delve into the detail of the trade period, I’d like to take a moment to personally thank Adam Treloar, Tom Phillips, Jaidyn Stephenson and Atu Bosenavulagi for their contribution to our club. I wish them the very best for the future. They have each made a very real contribution to our club.
Competing in an elite sport presents a unique challenge for clubs; the pursuit of excellence is rightly demanded by members, fans, coaches and the like, but the special relationships formed between players and fans is also something to be valued. This makes the departure of any player a difficult and emotional one – whether through trade, delisting, or retirement. We understandthis acutely. It happens every year.
Many members are wanting to understand the strategy behind our various trade decisions.
We are all proud of the regeneration of the team that has seen us play AFL finals in each of the last three years. As you know we made a Grand Final appearance in 2018, lost in a Preliminary Final in 2019 and this year bowed out in the Semi Finals. We believed that we could stay in and around the mark for some time but knew that to maximise our opportunity to win the premiership and build a sustainable future really difficult decisions were required.
Multiple factors played into our decision to release the four players.
Salary cap pressure was certainly a key part of the decision. This is common for teams in premiership contention and even for some who are not. Financial sacrifices were made to keep the list together but this could not be the ongoing solution. With a further reduction every club’s salary cap about to come due to the impacts due to COVID, this situation was going to be exacerbated.
Another was the anticipated evolution of the team. We expect to improve from within. Our program has done a wonderful job in developing a number of exciting and talented young players ready to assume more control of the team: Quaynor, Daicos, Sier, Kelly, Keane and Cal and Tyler Brown to name a few. These players have shown much promise over recent seasons, and we are very much looking forward to seeing each of them become regular features in our best 22.
Being realistic about the future was also something we felt was required.Despite the fantastic Elimination Final win only a few weeks ago in Perth, we fell well short in our Semi-Final against the Cats the following week. The unflattering result was not a reflection of our season but it could not be ignored, either.
As Collingwood GM of Football, Geoff Walsh, said a short time later: “We were a fair way off in the last game of 2020.That shows us we need to get better and improve our list. The best way to improve your list is via the draft”.
Of course, the other method is via trading and free agency. To be blunt, we found ourselves in a bind: we were without realistic access to the free agency market with our salary cap being at its limit. We have had quality players expressing interest in coming to our club, interest we could not realistically pursue due to our cap limitations.
This could not continue and so some tough and, frankly, painful decisions had to be made.
As List Manager Ned Guy has suggested, the outcome of the 2020 trade period is far from the end of our quest for immediate improvement and we are confident of taking an even stronger hand than we currently have to next month’s AFL national draft.
We are extremely excited by the prospect of bringing two first round draftees to Collingwood in 2021, something we have not done since drafting Jordan De Goey and Darcy Moore in the top 10 of the 2014 draft. Because of the talent at the top end of this year’s draft, this is one our recruiting team want to be in.
Further, with the salary cap relief created, we can aggressively attack the free agency market from next year on if we so wish.
All that being said, I am aware that many members will still hold a different perspective. We not only respect this - we value it. Within any high-performance environment it’s vital to be challenged, and it’s equally as important for our members to be heard. We know that the feedback being directed to the club comes from a place of great passion and care, not only for the club as a whole but for our players as well.
As Ned and Geoff have noted, the club has a certain level of responsibility to players and their management when discussing specifics with regards to potential trades, but it’s our responsibility to you – our members – that we explore ways in which we can take action based on your feedback.
We do not shy away from the responsibility that comes with these decisions. Ned, Geoff and other members of the recruiting and list management team made the tough calls for the right reasons and in the very best interest of our team and club. I absolutely respect their judgement and have the utmost confidence in their ability to reshape our list, open up new possibilities for growth and build off the plan that has been established.
We are working across every area of our club and football department to get better and as such, we all await the start of the 2021 season with much anticipation. As stated at the opening, we will continue to communicate with you as we lead into the national draft and beyond, as we build towards round one. Your support is greatly valued.
Kind regards,
Mark Anderson
Chief Executive Officer
So I received and email from Mark Anderson himself.
He basically explains that there is / was cap pressure and was part of the reasoning for our poor trading. However he also tried to sell to me that we'll 'improve' through the draft. And we'll also improve internally.
I explained to him that that is inconsistent in that you can't just offload walk up 22 players and expect we'll improve list wise through the draft. I also explained why it is hard to believe we'll improve internally through development given our recent development since the GF.
I let him know that I think it is insulting my intelligence.
Has anyone rec'd a similar / same email?
He basically explains that there is / was cap pressure and was part of the reasoning for our poor trading. However he also tried to sell to me that we'll 'improve' through the draft. And we'll also improve internally.
I explained to him that that is inconsistent in that you can't just offload walk up 22 players and expect we'll improve list wise through the draft. I also explained why it is hard to believe we'll improve internally through development given our recent development since the GF.
I let him know that I think it is insulting my intelligence.
Has anyone rec'd a similar / same email?
- Moderator
- #236
All members got it, being discussed in the trade thread.
Yep got it, still does not excuse the treatment of players and supporters. And Bucks play the kids in 2021. Bullshit.
We all get the strategy post-2020 and many would agree it's not a bad one - the execution is the issue. Also - the return for the players we let go was rubbish. The letter failed to acknowledge poor trading for all those first and second rounders over the past few years. We could have been absolutely stacked with talent if we had competent list-management. Secondly, calling bullshit on the "salary cap issues" for clubs at the top-end. Richmond got Lynch in the door after winning a premiership, Geelong just signed Cameron. Our list-management has kept us from a flag.
TakingThePies
Club Legend
- Jul 11, 2020
- 1,624
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The way that 'Matt' rang up Triple M I think Friday? and was honest and well spoken, didn't ark up or swear or anything, Just calmly questioned Ed about his displeasure...
All for Mcguire to spin it and talk shit showed they just don't care about us and what we think. The bloke was basically made a fool out of by McGuire because he didn't want to sell anything other than 'oh we're fine'
All for Mcguire to spin it and talk shit showed they just don't care about us and what we think. The bloke was basically made a fool out of by McGuire because he didn't want to sell anything other than 'oh we're fine'
foreigner
Club Legend
You do know what you can still go to the footy without paying for a membership don't you?
barrackers
Brownlow Medallist
- Sep 4, 2016
- 11,944
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Yes, but with normal work hours it's not always possible for me to be at the game earlier enough to get a decent seat. With ticketek fees it's not cost effective for me to get reserved seats outside of a membership package.
Obese Arachnid
Diplomatic Immunity
- Jan 11, 2008
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- There are no other teams.
FMD, I'm sick of the poor return palaver, it's nonsense on stilts.
The ****ing problem is what lead us to this point that necessitated this fire sale!
The ****ing problem is what lead us to this point that necessitated this fire sale!
- Aug 17, 2018
- 1,191
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I believe that you've got a lot of this about right Anzac.
Ned's not as incompetent as people think.
He landed in late 2018 with about 27 players contracts coming due at the end of that year (courtesy of Hine's inability to both recruit and list manage) and was told to get the Beams deal done too (because Ed had made a promise to him that he was always welcome to return and we thought he was the missing ingredient after being pumped in the midfield in the GF).
We were in the window and had interest from outside in some of our players like DeGoey, Moore, Langdon who were signed to good deals.
Beams overall contract was modest for a player of his talents. You pay up to get a contracted player (see Cameron and the Cats deal) and the draft hand reflected that. We took comfort from being able to get IQ and Kelly in any case.
Some of the back ending of contracts came about because of the Mayne and Wells deals being so high. Thank Gubby (and Ed for that).
Ned set about extending contracts to try and to have less players coming due at the same time since - Adams, Sidebottom, Treloar etc and on lower yearly salary.
It was apparent that there were emerging problems a year ago (end 2019) with the salary cap. Aish was let go, Shaz was shopped, Flip rejected overtures from Geelong and we respected that. Treloar was told we'd look to shop him to GC Suns. He said, "no worries if you get an appropriate deal, I'll go", given Kimmy was from Qld. But then he got cold feet and it didn't happen.
And here we are.
Jaidyn's departure was a new development I gather, driven by some severe behavioural problems this season and an unwillingness to accept being told to pull his head in subsequent.
The mismanagement reflects primarily
- Gubby coming in, all guns a blazing.
- Hine being in over his head as list manager which got addressed at the review
- Ed facilitating Gubby and Beams deals
They knew it would come to a head eventually and that a player or two would be squeezed out.
My problem is
- the poor value we extracted from the loss of the players (absolutely negligible when you take into account the picks we passed back to WB)
- the narrative they've unsuccessfully tried to spin and it seems the way the players involved may have been treated
But you're right, the responsibility sits primarily with the Board (Ed) and to a lesser extent Walsh, best I can tell.
Ned's had an unenviable time of rejigging things, re-contracting Billy, Langers, Moore, DeGoey and others that were being hunted and then when it has come to an inevitable head, they've rolled him out on trade night to face the hungry media pack. As Rendell said, Stephen O'Reilly's done him no favours.
Ed and Walsh, by contrast, did a friendly interview amongst themselves on MMM next day.
I don't think we want Bucks and Ed going at the same time. Ed should step down now as the biggest culprit. He should not be allowed to be there in a couple of years time.
Bucks has a year to run on his contract and a decision can be made then.
JezzasOnTheAsphalt
Club Legend
- May 14, 2018
- 1,981
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At least we aren’t being treated like mugs anymore. Guy and Walsh made the cap issues sound irrelevant, here it feels like the most relevant factor in the decisions.
So now we've had Nathan come out and say what it really was and was pretty reflective of the media speculation. All of whom most of us bagged - myself included, as hyperbole. Clearly it wasn't.
Now there's 'well at least we know now' like it's excused, yeah for me that ain't flyin.
You just watch the sheeple go 'oh ok, now that you've owned up all is forgiven' which of course is going to lead to another half a decade or thereabouts of mediocrity.
Now we've watched yet another window out the window, f*n nother one!
Yeah not for mine, I really hope this challenging ticket gets some real noise and the club actually listens this time. Come fail or a miraculous masterstroke, whatever, this club needs a serious rocket up the ass.
Here here, so what bucks has mostly come clean. The management still need to be punished for their crimes. Ed Bucks Walsh all need to go
Visions
Brownlow Medallist
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Considering what’s happened the last few days with all the backpedaling by the hierarchy, the club must be haemorrhaging membership renewals.
So it ends up the media were correct about our salary cap issue, with all those on here wearing rose coloured glasses who were dismissing it as white noise being totally wrong.
Basically Treloar and Stevo were lied to in the effort to sweep the mismanagement of the club under the carpet, and now by coming out they hope all is forgotten and forgiven. That is, nothing will change nor do they think it should because the Eddie McGuire Football Club is untouchable when a lot of positions should be untenable.
It actually surprises me that a lot of supporters actually think this won’t effect us and the team will continue on a merry path of making finals next year.
Anytime any type of turmoil has hit this club starting from the coaching succession plan debacle a decade ago has resulted in the foreseeable future being a write off. This will be no different and it can be even worse as I can see the playing group being totally demoralised by what has happened.
All we will get is the status quo which is continued failure and being an “almost” club which is the only thing the club is consistent at.
So it ends up the media were correct about our salary cap issue, with all those on here wearing rose coloured glasses who were dismissing it as white noise being totally wrong.
Basically Treloar and Stevo were lied to in the effort to sweep the mismanagement of the club under the carpet, and now by coming out they hope all is forgotten and forgiven. That is, nothing will change nor do they think it should because the Eddie McGuire Football Club is untouchable when a lot of positions should be untenable.
It actually surprises me that a lot of supporters actually think this won’t effect us and the team will continue on a merry path of making finals next year.
Anytime any type of turmoil has hit this club starting from the coaching succession plan debacle a decade ago has resulted in the foreseeable future being a write off. This will be no different and it can be even worse as I can see the playing group being totally demoralised by what has happened.
All we will get is the status quo which is continued failure and being an “almost” club which is the only thing the club is consistent at.
Maggie Greg
Cancelled
- Jan 24, 2002
- 955
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The Petition is at beast naive and at worst a waste of time.
There is only one thing that I am concerned about and it isn't the off-loaded players. They should harden up. TOm Phillips has acted maturely and understands but that could be as a result of him being better educated and can understand conversations.
My concern is will this affect morale of the team? Once you lose that then it is a quck trip to the bottom a al Adelaide post 2017 and Collingwood 1982.
Buckley hasn't done anything wrong in my opinion but the moving out of players may affect him if morale is affected.
We wont know that answer until the season starts.
There is only one thing that I am concerned about and it isn't the off-loaded players. They should harden up. TOm Phillips has acted maturely and understands but that could be as a result of him being better educated and can understand conversations.
My concern is will this affect morale of the team? Once you lose that then it is a quck trip to the bottom a al Adelaide post 2017 and Collingwood 1982.
Buckley hasn't done anything wrong in my opinion but the moving out of players may affect him if morale is affected.
We wont know that answer until the season starts.
sr36
TheBrownDog
By the sounds of it it was the even dirtier job of having to persuade the player to take another club's offer.
Maggie Greg
Cancelled
- Jan 24, 2002
- 955
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It is in February for AGM purposes, but you would have to nominate weeks before that when vacancies are announced and if an election is required it takes place on the day of the AGM or the days leading up to it and is announced at the AGM. The vote doesn't take place there.
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