OldSchool
Brownlow Medallist
Assuming we get the 5th pick of the draft this year then who do you think we have a realistic shot at getting ?
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I am sorry Scott I got it wrong
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Assuming we get the 5th pick of the draft this year then who do you think we have a realistic shot at getting ?
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- #52
I will get back to you.
OldSchool
Brownlow Medallist
It's not easy to commit yourself to a few names is it ?
Well that seems to be a fair rap from a group of people vastly experienced in football.
So who would know whether Clayton is a good recruiter? The Clayton advocates above or Starshiptrooper?
The defence rests.
Incidently it would be interesting to get your thoughts on the question Rocco asked you about Kleiman. I think I might have even asked you that myself a while back without getting a response.
What responsibility if any would you proportion to Kleiman for the problems we have had concerning the state of our playing list in recent years?
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Originally posted by OldSchool
It's not easy to commit yourself to a few names is it ?
If I was the best talent spotter in the business like working full time travelling around watching football , talking to coaches, parents, presidents , players, other recruiters, spotters, AIS personel AFL development personel, attending draft camps and watching countless videos etc etc etc I would be happy to commit. As I have as yet paid bugger all attention to it other than the Vic scene I will wait and see.
What I can tell you is that I wont be trading our Hypthetical pick 5 for a second eleven player at another club.
OldSchool
Brownlow Medallist
How about coughing up a few Victorian names we should all look out for ?
Do you actually go to any of the games is it just what you read ?
Originally posted by OldSchool
It's not easy to commit yourself to a few names is it ?
I know we have traded a lot of banter on this very subject and probably disagree as much as we agree. But like you I would have thought that someone who has been so critical of Clayton's performance would have more to back up his opinion than mere hindsight.
I would have thought that when making such criticisms it would have arisen from having a very sound knowledge on the subject. Meaning having first hand knowledge and being able to make your own judgements about the merits of the players available as a result of having witnessed them play. Making critical opinions of Clayton at the time of the drafting from a position based with some knowledge would give more credibility to the person making the criticisms. If he could therefore pick who we should have recruited (at that time) he would then be a genius.
As you say it's not easy to pick the talent but I would have thought Starshiptrooper would have had something immediate to offer in response to your question on who we might get with a fifth pick. I'm disappointed he hasn't.
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- #58
I could give a toss about what my perceived credibilty may be . What I am interseted in is the results of a highly paid full time talent spotter touted as being the best in the business. He is in his 5 year and we have 4 wins at the half way mark after winning 3.5 games the previous year.
Sorry, how silly of me thats all Rhodes fault.
Ok Fair enough
so therefore it is reasonable for us to come to the conclusion that you have no idea about recruiting. I think that is all we wanted to establish.
Any view on Kleiman yet or do you have to look that up as well?
OldSchool
Brownlow Medallist
I think we have differing philosophies about draft day talent but overall we both have the utmost respect for what Clayton and others achieve.
I don't think either of us have ever said that Clayton is the best in the business which Trooper seems to want to challenge but he is one of the better guys around.
A number of people prefer the Monday morning quarterback or day old prophet approach.
OldSchool
Brownlow Medallist
So you don't give a damn about your own credibility or how you are perceived but you believe you should attack the credibility of Claytons recruiting reputation.
If you had have originally said you thought Clayton could have done better with the available selections and stopped referring to players as duds then you might have got a fair bit of genuine debate. Not that you were too interested in that to start with.
Starship: Where are your promised reviews of Clayton's other drafts? I think we all would be interested to see them.
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- #63
Re getting back, I may suprise you but I dont sit at the PC 24/7 waiting for reply to all an sundry I often wonder how match time some of you sit reading this stuff. On Kleiman 100% certified dud. The only redeaming aspect was recruiting Johno. But at least he wasnt pumped up to be something he wasnt viz 'the best in the business"
Yep. He is still involved in football though. I think he is the player welfare guy at Collingwood.
Brown ring a bell? Didn't Kleiman draft him? Besides Alvey, how many other Kleiman picks are still playing? Josh Mahoney?
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- #66
Well aware of brown, I am only interested in players on our list.
As I'm only interested in your summary of the 2000, 2001, 2002, and possibly the 2003 drafts, as promised by yourself.
Some of Kleiman's other gems include Jim Plunkett, Paul Dooley, Robert Stevenson, Jay Solomon, Ricky Symes, David Round, Jacob Rhodes, Paul Digiovine, Anthony Aloi, Christin Macri, Allen Jakovich (pick 9 in 1995), Nicky Winmar (pick 30 in 1998), Luke Penny (pick 14 in 1998), not to mention such short sighted decisions as giving up a 1st round pick in 1995 for Hugh Riemers and Brad Wira!! I'd say conservatively 80% of the players Kleiman drafted for us didn't even play 1 game of AFL football. Clayton is an excellent recruiter IMO, and you cannot blame him for these guys failing to progress. That is the fault of the Rohde led and Wallace led footy depts. The second the player's name is read out, Clayton's job is finished.
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- #69
When I get a spare 30 seconds I will cut and paste my previous posts and tack them on to 2000, 20001, 2002. It will be more of the same recruiting blunders.
Cheers.
