Expansion If the AFL expanded, where would the next team/s be?

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Yes. But so what?

Winning has a far greater affect on club finances than you think.

But all of those clubs aren't Victorian.

And are you seriously suggesting that playing fewer games against other teams from your city is a compo factor now? Jeez, line up for your millions if you're not from Melbourne! We cop 10 games a year against interstate opposition. Where's our compo?

Teams outside Victoria are guaranteed 11 home games in a one or two team environment that should mandate the selling out of stadiums regardless of the opposition. In Victoria, the draw been a factor since the AFL guaranteed blockbusters for Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon and Richmond, and greatly reducing the ability of North, the Bulldogs, and Saints to get big games agains the big clubs at home - thats where the money is, it sure as hell isnt against the non victorian clubs.

This was a consequence of going national and keeping the fixture at 22 rounds. The smaller clubs could no longer bank on return games against the big Victorian clubs for a pay day. If your only playing the small clubs and interstate clubs for most of your season at home, then you will always be screwed.

Not to mention again - playing at Etihad, which is not the preferred stadium for most, timeslots that arent suited for football goers - and with up to 17 games a season in Melbourne, and ticket prices being what they are, you've got plenty of choice.

Who are these clubs? Like North, who have been given 9 Friday night games over the last 2 seasons and will get another 5 in 2016? Yet they remain a massive recipient of this 'compensation', despite getting kissed on the dick by the fixture.

Yes we overlook the last 30 years, because North are finally get a fair deal due to a change in AFL policy. They still play at Etihad, and despite your refusal to believe it, is the driver of their compensation. Change doesnt happen overnight - and this was budgeted for four years ago. We'll see what they get in the next AFL funding plan.

Just because a team doesn't get Collingwood's draw doesn't mean that it's unfair and warrants compensation. Especially given that part of the reason Collingwood get the draw they do is because other clubs request to play them in prime time slots.

Collingwoods guaranteed fixture of at least 14 games a season at the MCG helps too. No one is asking for Collingwoods draw, they want the same consideration given to everyones fixture, not just Collingwood.

Rubbish. Where would they play? You can't have 5 games a week at the MCG.

Clubs havent had the ability to do their own deals properly for decades, since the VFL and Cain Government decided that they would force a two stadium strategy. Clubs would play smaller attended games anywhere but the major stadiums if they were allowed to organise such. Princes Park would still be used now if Carlton had a choice in the matter, and if it had been a clean stadium, then other clubs would have used it to. The Dogs have already said they make a small mint playing games at the Western Oval - and they might have even played at Kardinia Park if allowed. North were refused permission to sell games to Perth which would have made them a stack of money. Melbourne were prevented from playing games at Adelaide Oval a decade before AFL was actually played there.

The most glaring example is Fitzroy - refused permission to play in Canberra despite the lucrative offer being made to play there, and refused permission to play in Tasmania, despite offers there too AND underwriting their own cost - both options of which would have been preferrable to being wound up by the league and forcibly merged.
 
Winning has a far greater affect on club finances than you think.



The most glaring example is Fitzroy - refused permission to play in Canberra despite the lucrative offer being made to play there, and refused permission to play in Tasmania, despite offers there too AND underwriting their own cost - both options of which would have been preferrable to being wound up by the league and forcibly merged.

I don't know how Fitzroy were refused permission to play in Tasmania, seeing they played 4 games in Hobart, 2 in 1991 & 2 in 1992.
 
Winning has a far greater affect on club finances than you think.

Teams outside Victoria are guaranteed 11 home games in a one or two team environment that should mandate the selling out of stadiums regardless of the opposition. In Victoria, the draw been a factor since the AFL guaranteed blockbusters for Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon and Richmond, and greatly reducing the ability of North, the Bulldogs, and Saints to get big games agains the big clubs at home - thats where the money is, it sure as hell isnt against the non victorian clubs.

This was a consequence of going national and keeping the fixture at 22 rounds. The smaller clubs could no longer bank on return games against the big Victorian clubs for a pay day. If your only playing the small clubs and interstate clubs for most of your season at home, then you will always be screwed.

Not to mention again - playing at Etihad, which is not the preferred stadium for most, timeslots that arent suited for football goers - and with up to 17 games a season in Melbourne, and ticket prices being what they are, you've got plenty of choice.

"Teams outside Victoria are guaranteed 11 home games in a one or two team environment that should mandate the selling out of stadiums regardless of the opposition" Okay.

The ability of North, the Bulldogs, and Saints to get big games against the big clubs at home - thats where the money is, it sure as hell isnt against the non victorian clubs.

Surely a business model that revolves around opposition fans funding your existence is a problematic one in an "elite" national league?
 

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"Teams outside Victoria are guaranteed 11 home games in a one or two team environment that should mandate the selling out of stadiums regardless of the opposition" Okay.

The ability of North, the Bulldogs, and Saints to get big games against the big clubs at home - thats where the money is, it sure as hell isnt against the non victorian clubs.

Surely a business model that revolves around opposition fans funding your existence is a problematic one in an "elite" national league?

Missing the point entirely. Its an uneven fixture that allows the rich clubs in Melbourne to get richer and keeps the small clubs small.
 
I don't know how Fitzroy were refused permission to play in Tasmania, seeing they played 4 games in Hobart, 2 in 1991 & 2 in 1992.

ok Ive got this slightly off - the were refused permission to play in Canberra. This was relayed by Ian Collins to Dyson Hore-Lacy on August 28,1995 according to his book (Ftizroy, pg 131). With Tasmania, they couldnt afford to keep playing in Tasmania - According to Dyson Hore-Lacy,

"A few years earlier a similar Tasmanian experiment had been abandoned, partly because of a lack of support from the Tasmanian Government, but also because the experiment was poorly planned and implemented. Accommodation and travel costs were actually taken out of Fitzroys gate reciepts" (Fitzroy, pg 127)

Roylion probably knows more, but the reason Ian Collins gave for knocking back Canberra was the failure of the Tasmanian experiment (Fitzroy, pg 131)
 
ok Ive got this slightly off - the were refused permission to play in Canberra. This was relayed by Ian Collins to Dyson Hore-Lacy on August 28,1995 according to his book (Ftizroy, pg 131). With Tasmania, they couldnt afford to keep playing in Tasmania - According to Dyson Hore-Lacy,

"A few years earlier a similar Tasmanian experiment had been abandoned, partly because of a lack of support from the Tasmanian Government, but also because the experiment was poorly planned and implemented. Accommodation and travel costs were actually taken out of Fitzroys gate reciepts" (Fitzroy, pg 127)

Yep. Unfortunate. Tasmania had a great deal of potential to become Fitzroy's state. There's even a lion on their flag.

TasFlag.gif


Roylion probably knows more, but the reason Ian Collins gave for knocking back Canberra was the failure of the Tasmanian experiment (Fitzroy, pg 131)

The real reason was to keep the pressure on Fitzroy to merge. The Canberra offer was quite lucrative and had the support of a couple of ACT government bodies, as well as existing sporting clubs. It definitely would have kept Fitzroy in the competition its own right. And the AFL didn't want that.
 
"Teams outside Victoria are guaranteed 11 home games in a one or two team environment that should mandate the selling out of stadiums regardless of the opposition" Okay.

The ability of North, the Bulldogs, and Saints to get big games against the big clubs at home - thats where the money is, it sure as hell isnt against the non victorian clubs.

Surely a business model that revolves around opposition fans funding your existence is a problematic one in an "elite" national league?

Pretty much all business models revolve around something that can be considered problematic, but so long as the contributing factors are likely to continue it's not a BIG problem.

For example, Port's business model that revolves around playing at AO because their fans are too fickle to go to FP.

Sure, you'll be at AO for years, just as the Vic clubs will be playing other Vic clubs for a long time to come.

So both business models work.
 
first time i have looked at this thread so apologies if i'm going over old ground. but i would think and hope that expansion is an extremely long way off, say minimum 15 years. the talent pool in the AFL is already spread too thin in my opinion, some of the games i've watched and been to the last year or 2 have been pretty ordinary, unfortunately a few of them involving the team i support. i know there have always been ordinary games but there seems to be a higher percentage of them now? in an ideal AFL world i would think less teams would be better overall (total fantasy though will never happen). i wont go into why the less teams option would be better as there is another thread devoted to this subject which i have been posting my views on.
 
The question perhaps isn't about expansion. Most on BF agree that we dont want an increased number of clubs. The question is about what is the best balance of teams geographically to maximise the appeal of a national competition & its financial position.
agree there is some interesting debate on this subject on this thread as well. "12 team competition 6 teams have to go who would they boot"
 
The question perhaps isn't about expansion. Most on BF agree that we dont want an increased number of clubs. The question is about what is the best balance of teams geographically to maximise the appeal of a national competition & its financial position.



So you don't want a Tas club....
 

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Writing this sort of rubbish just makes you look as silly.

Its nothing like what I've said for 6 years. You know that, so stop writing such shyte.

Well, if you don't want more clubs, then there is no way a Tas club can compete, let alone make the competition stronger.


If you don't know this yet, then you're being deliberately ignorant.
 
Well, if you don't want more clubs, then there is no way a Tas club can compete, let alone make the competition stronger.


If you don't know this yet, then you're being deliberately ignorant.

If (for instance) north was killed and a tassie team brought in, how are you thinking the team in tassie wouldn't be able to compete while it could in your 20 team comp?
 
Why kill off a club?

That's a separate question, but tensor said without increasing the number of teams there is no way a tassie team could compete let alone make the league stronger

If the league isn't increased in size, it means a team would be killed to make way for a tassie one, but I don't get how he thinks it would not be able to compete in the 18 side comp as opposed to a 20 team one
 
That's a separate question, but tensor said without increasing the number of teams there is no way a tassie team could compete let alone make the league stronger

If the league isn't increased in size, it means a team would be killed to make way for a tassie one, but I don't get how he thinks it would not be able to compete in the 18 side comp as opposed to a 20 team one

But this thread is about expansion not reduction.

He isnt saying that. He is saying tassie brings nothing more than what a lower end melbourne club would bring.

Hardly not surviving
 
But this thread is about expansion not reduction.

He isnt saying that. He is saying tassie brings nothing more than what a lower end melbourne club would bring.

Hardly not surviving

Read his post, his first words were "well if you don't want more clubs...." In this post he is addressing how tassie would fail in an 18 team league, hence my question about why given he's in favor of tassie in a 20 team league (supposedly)
 
Read his post, his first words were "well if you don't want more clubs...." In this post he is addressing how tassie would fail in an 18 team league, hence my question about why given he's in favor of tassie in a 20 team league (supposedly)
Because like most people he is against killing a club to add tassie. Doesnt mean it wouldnt work or tassie shouldnt have a team (they should).
But not at the expense of a current club unless that club makes the choice to move or drop to vfl.

Think thats fairly obvious
 
Because like most people he is against killing a club to add tassie. Doesnt mean it wouldnt work or tassie shouldnt have a team (they should).
But not at the expense of a current club unless that club makes the choice to move or drop to vfl.

Think thats fairly obvious

That's what he said though. Again, his words:

Well, if you don't want more clubs, then there is no way a Tas club can compete, let alone make the competition stronger.


If you don't know this yet, then you're being deliberately ignorant.

He is specifically addressing the notion of a tassie team in an 18 team comp because he says it cannot compete and it won't make the league stronger

So again, why is this different in a 20 team league?
 
That's what he said though. Again, his words:



He is specifically addressing the notion of a tassie team in an 18 team comp because he says it cannot compete and it won't make the league stronger

So again, why is this different in a 20 team league?
Because there is no vacancies in an 18 team comp for a tassie team.
 
Because there is no vacancies in an 18 team comp for a tassie team.

That was my first thought, but then he had the comment about the team not making the league stronger, which means they at least exist (even if they are shit)
 
Because there is no vacancies in an 18 team comp for a tassie team.

That's not it actually.

Even if you were starting from scratch, Tasmania wouldn't be one of the 18 best options. (well, 14 if you accept that 4 will be set aside for expansion, and thus operate under different criteria so only consider the heartland areas).
 
That's not it actually.

Even if you were starting from scratch, Tasmania wouldn't be one of the 18 best options. (well, 14 if you accept that 4 will be set aside for expansion, and thus operate under different criteria so only consider the heartland areas).
Fair call.

The no vacancies was as it stands now if we cant go beyond 18.
 

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Expansion If the AFL expanded, where would the next team/s be?

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