Injury/Rehab Injury/Niggle Management - w/ cptkirk

[breeno]

It's a bit hard without assessing your functionality on that leg/knee but I'd be doing a buttload of isolated quadriceps movements.
The medial patella retinaculum (essentially a fancy term for the fibres of the patella tendon towards the inside of your knee) is an extension of the vastus medialis so if that's compromised you'll get lateral tracking of the knee cap.
Something like slow eccentric single leg squats or leg extensions (lower with one leg, lift up with both legs) could help as tendons tend to respond well to loading.
Soft tissue work on the quads (particularly lateral, but stay off the ITB!) may also help speed up the process.
How did you hurt it in the first place?

Thanks a lot Aeglos.

Re: how I hurt it in the first place. I have a knack for hilariously stupid injuries, and with this one, I sat down at a desk, not realising that the desk had a singular drawer attached on it's underside. The corner of that jammed right in between my patella and vastus medialis.

 

[Power Raid]

No, this is just false. Stretching facilitates recovery from the breakdown of muscle during activity, it does not "tear the muscles".

Please do some actual research before giving anyone advice.

I think your limiting your thoughts to a typical stretch used to warm up before a game. I'm referring to stretch techniques banned under the geneva convention, used as a technique for interrogation.

It sounds extreme, and compared to normal stretching, it is but is also forms the basis of some types of yoga such as yin.

 

[Aeglos]

Lol wut?
Nek minnit there'll be the recommendation to quarter yourself

 

[Power Raid]

Lol wut?
Nek minnit there'll be the recommendation to quarter yourself

I can't think of a better technique to build strength, balance, tone muscles, increase flexibility, improve cardio and target deep tissue. No equipment needed, no cost and can be done anywhere.

In an interrogation setting, it is so effective, you can get ANY soldier to talk within 30 seconds. In an exercise setting, most stretches go for 2-5 minutes and would give a similar result that a novice gym goer would feel for days after say 20 sets of ten reps of squats.

 

[Drumroe]

I can't think of a better technique to build strength, balance, tone muscles, increase flexibility, improve cardio and target deep tissue. No equipment needed, no cost and can be done anywhere.

In an interrogation setting, it is so effective, you can get ANY soldier to talk within 30 seconds. In an exercise setting, most stretches go for 2-5 minutes and would give a similar result that a novice gym goer would feel for days after say 20 sets of ten reps of squats.

I'm sure there's scientific literature backing this up?

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[Power Raid]

I'm sure there's scientific literature backing this up?

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Take a look at yin yoga

 

[Drumroe]

Take a look at yin yoga

Yoga and mobility work can be great, but it's not 'the key' to preventing injury or recovery. If you're pulling up sore for days how exactly is it helping recovery?

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[Aeglos]

I can't think of a better technique to build strength, balance, tone muscles, increase flexibility, improve cardio and target deep tissue. No equipment needed, no cost and can be done anywhere.

In an interrogation setting, it is so effective, you can get ANY soldier to talk within 30 seconds. In an exercise setting, most stretches go for 2-5 minutes and would give a similar result that a novice gym goer would feel for days after say 20 sets of ten reps of squats.

I'm curious as to what logic you're applying that associates with something that leaves you sore for days with reduced risk of injury

 

[DemonTim]

Well this thread is ruined
People really should be educated before making any claims

 

[Power Raid]

Yoga and mobility work can be great, but it's not 'the key' to preventing injury or recovery. If you're pulling up sore for days how exactly is it helping recovery?

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most stretching only targets muscles and does so in a very poor way, leading to the analysis in the link posted above. Muscles are important to stretch to avoid tears and niggles but are only a part of the equation. Connective tissue is often over looked and stretching this (correctly) can help with posture, the nervous system and blood flow.

Starting with the most basic concept above, with common sense:
how can you not expect to be injured if your body is operating under work load with poor posture?
how can you expect your muscles to deliver up to 100% of their capability if the connective tissue between the muscle and the bone is weak, damaged or lost its elasticity?

Here is a link which is more a discussion piece https://nihrecord.nih.gov/newsletters/2012/11_23_2012/story3.htm but useful nevertheless

I got interested in the area based on my experience in the military, assessing interrogation techniques post ADF service for foreign militaries and para-militaries, my rheumatologist and yoga. I did have a laughed to myself the first time I did yin yoga, that they were teaching manoeuvres that were banned by the geneva convention. Of course intensity is different, where one is a controlled exercise designed for positive results and the other designed to get people to talk or cause permanent damage including maiming.

I will try and dig up a phd or masters report on the topic but FTR I agree a stretch warm up is a negative but from experience deep tissue stretch has life changing positive results.

 

[Aeglos]

most stretching only targets muscles and does so in a very poor way, leading to the analysis in the link posted above. Muscles are important to stretch to avoid tears and niggles but are only a part of the equation. Connective tissue is often over looked and stretching this (correctly) can help with posture, the nervous system and blood flow.

Starting with the most basic concept above, with common sense:
how can you not expect to be injured if your body is operating under work load with poor posture?
how can you expect your muscles to deliver up to 100% of their capability if the connective tissue between the muscle and the bone is weak, damaged or lost its elasticity?

Here is a link which is more a discussion piece https://nihrecord.nih.gov/newsletters/2012/11_23_2012/story3.htm but useful nevertheless

I got interested in the area based on my experience in the military, assessing interrogation techniques post ADF service for foreign militaries and para-militaries, my rheumatologist and yoga. I did have a laughed to myself the first time I did yin yoga, that they were teaching manoeuvres that were banned by the geneva convention. Of course intensity is different, where one is a controlled exercise designed for positive results and the other designed to get people to talk or cause permanent damage including maiming.

I will try and dig up a phd or masters report on the topic but FTR I agree a stretch warm up is a negative but from experience deep tissue stretch has life changing positive results.

That discussion piece doesn't support your stance at all.
Literally all it says is "it's an interesting topic and one that requires further study".
Connective tissue is also ridiculously stiff/dense with a msssively high tensile strength; it takes 800kg+ of force applied to the ITB for it to deviate/stretch 1%! 1!!! So on an average person to become maybe 1cm "longer" ythe u need to apply a literal tonne of force, and even then you'd be crossing your fingers that the muscle tissue and bones don't break first

 

[DemonTim]

That discussion piece doesn't support your stance at all.
Literally all it says is "it's an interesting topic and one that requires further study".
Connective tissue is also ridiculously stiff/dense with a msssively high tensile strength; it takes 800kg+ of force applied to the ITB for it to deviate/stretch 1%! 1!!! So on an average person to become maybe 1cm "longer" ythe u need to apply a literal tonne of force, and even then you'd be crossing your fingers that the muscle tissue and bones don't break first

I just read this all to the missus (without your latest reply) she almost said word for word what you said haha
Quoted the bowling ball study on the ITB

 

[Aeglos]

I just read this all to the missus (without your latest reply) she almost said word for word what you said haha
Quoted the bowling ball study on the ITB

Haha.
I am open to changing my opinion on things, but you gotta at least have something to back it up!
The worst is therapists who refuse to budge from their beliefs despite being black and white wrong.
Eg teacher in my diploma "we stretch the fascia when we do myofascial release"
content co-ordinator "you're wrong and here is a dozen studies that prove this"
Teacher ". . . Nah"

*edit*
Was just reminded of another argument I overheard at uni re: the validity of most orthopaedic testing. On one hand you had someone arguing that because they've always taught them they should continue, and on the other someone (correctly) arguing that 80% of them are unreliable, have poor sensitivity, poor specificity, don't even test the correct structures. Then of the remaining 20% half of them are unnecessary as they merely confirm something that should show up in questioning and a basic range of motion assessment

 

[Power Raid]

That discussion piece doesn't support your stance at all.
Literally all it says is "it's an interesting topic and one that requires further study".
Connective tissue is also ridiculously stiff/dense with a msssively high tensile strength; it takes 800kg+ of force applied to the ITB for it to deviate/stretch 1%! 1!!! So on an average person to become maybe 1cm "longer" ythe u need to apply a literal tonne of force, and even then you'd be crossing your fingers that the muscle tissue and bones don't break first

and the ITB is an area you should never stretch

 

[DemonTim]

and the ITB is an area you should never stretch

You've picked a tiny snippet (see example) of his response and ignored the rest

Yourposting sums up the health and fitness industry

 

[RICHOLEGEND12]

If they're hurting after a walk that's suggesting a crazy high level of inflammation in that area.
I'm not a fan of completely ceasing activity as the affected tissues become deconditioned as they heal, which means they just get hurt again when you return to activity.
I've had good success in the path with Achilles issues (mainly with footy players) by recommending the following;
- soft tissue release of plantar fascia and posterior calf muscles
- stretching of plantar fascia and posterior calf muscles
- loading of the tendon via first isometrics then eccentrics (heavy load, low volume)
- sharp reduction of training load in the short term before gradually increasing it again

Thanks for the advice Aeglos. I think I jumped the gun and it is unlikely that it's achilles related. It is in that area, but feels more around the bone at the tops of the heels than the tendon. So I thought I'd go to the doc to try work out what it is. But wasn't much help, just 'warm up before running'. So I got no idea what it is. I'm usually pretty good with pain, so I don't think its just a case of being a spud. I guess I'll just give em a bit more of a break and see what happens as I can't run for shit at the moment.

I did do something terrible to em the other week, ran as a runner for a half of football in ill fitted, loose as **** work boots, maybe that did a bit more damage than I thought.

 

[Power Raid]

You've picked a tiny snippet (see example) of his response and ignored the rest

Yourposting sums up the health and fitness industry

and you clearly haven't bothered to read the OP

 

[DemonTim]

and you clearly haven't bothered to read the OP

I did. You've actually changed your point a fair bit from that...
This also didn't change what I just said, you've ignored most of a detailed response because you couldn't respond.

 

[Aeglos]

Thanks for the advice Aeglos. I think I jumped the gun and it is unlikely that it's achilles related. It is in that area, but feels more around the bone at the tops of the heels than the tendon. So I thought I'd go to the doc to try work out what it is. But wasn't much help, just 'warm up before running'. So I got no idea what it is. I'm usually pretty good with pain, so I don't think its just a case of being a spud. I guess I'll just give em a bit more of a break and see what happens as I can't run for shit at the moment.

I did do something terrible to em the other week, ran as a runner for a half of football in ill fitted, loose as **** work boots, maybe that did a bit more damage than I thought.

Tendons attach to bones so it's still possibly achilles (or plantar fascia) related.
Hopefully you can decipher this picture, but of all the structures here which is the closest to the location of where you're experiencing pain?
http://www.podiatrychannel.com/pod/Images/ft_bckvw2.jpg
*edit* should add that's a right foot/ankle/leg

 

[Power Raid]

I did. You've actually changed your point a fair bit from that...
This also didn't change what I just said, you've ignored most of a detailed response because you couldn't respond.

if you take a look at the diagram in the link above, you will note the issue can't be many alternatives but deep tissue

 

[DemonTim]

if you take a look at the diagram in the link above, you will note the issue can't be many alternatives but deep tissue

Can you please respond in a sensical manner... none of this relates to your OP your follow ups or your lack of responding to what was said

 

[cptkirk]

Thanks for the advice Aeglos. I think I jumped the gun and it is unlikely that it's achilles related. It is in that area, but feels more around the bone at the tops of the heels than the tendon. So I thought I'd go to the doc to try work out what it is. But wasn't much help, just 'warm up before running'. So I got no idea what it is. I'm usually pretty good with pain, so I don't think its just a case of being a spud. I guess I'll just give em a bit more of a break and see what happens as I can't run for shit at the moment.

I did do something terrible to em the other week, ran as a runner for a half of football in ill fitted, loose as **** work boots, maybe that did a bit more damage than I thought.

I had some minor Achilles pain happening a few weeks ago as i have 1 leg doing a power for me and the other not so much...i have a ems/tens machine that i used on it 5 - 6 times on a low to moderate setting and it's been gone for a couple of weeks though but that also coincided with a drop in training load from a corkie as well but had absolutely no issues with it playing footy last Sat so that might be an option for you...i'm into them

 

[cptkirk]

if you take a look at the diagram in the link above, you will note the issue can't be many alternatives but deep tissue

stretching, flexibility or mobility - whatever you wanna call it - is largely driven by the nervous system and the state of of physical and mental mind you are in right now...why anyone needs to use military intel collecting methods for anything other then that is beyond me

 

[Brad Goodman]

Best way to get rid of a Wednesday night corkie by Saturday (going to have to hide it tonight I feel)?

 

[RICHOLEGEND12]

Tendons attach to bones so it's still possibly achilles (or plantar fascia) related.
Hopefully you can decipher this picture, but of all the structures here which is the closest to the location of where you're experiencing pain?
http://www.podiatrychannel.com/pod/Images/ft_bckvw2.jpg
*edit* should add that's a right foot/ankle/leg

I'd say just behind where the achilles joins to the calcaneous, as in towards the front of the foot from that view. The top of the calcenous on the front of foot side of the achilles, best explains it

I had some minor Achilles pain happening a few weeks ago as i have 1 leg doing a power for me and the other not so much...i have a ems/tens machine that i used on it 5 - 6 times on a low to moderate setting and it's been gone for a couple of weeks though but that also coincided with a drop in training load from a corkie as well but had absolutely no issues with it playing footy last Sat so that might be an option for you...i'm into them

Thanks Cptkirk, I'll give it a crack.