Cassio del Monte
Debutant
So you assume because they don't have Australian rules football, that when they see it, they're just going to drop whatever else they follow and watch AFL instead?
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- Thread starter chinggis77
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- Thread starter
- #27
Much of what is written of international AFL is exaggerated.
The US for example is not as strong as people believe consisting of many irreglar matches and as far as I can tell - no junior system.
Seems like whenever anything happens overseas the media makes a big deal, but it is often blown up. Melb FC's Chinese venture is one such example. Nothing will come of that as they didn't even take it very seriously.
The AFL should make a concerted effort and focus on specific countries, rather than a piecemeal approach.
US is the obvious market to target. Seems many are scared of the unrealistic thought of the US taking over the game and taking all our best players.
A realistic vision is that it would establish a niche and feed into the elite AFL competition.
The US for example is not as strong as people believe consisting of many irreglar matches and as far as I can tell - no junior system.
Seems like whenever anything happens overseas the media makes a big deal, but it is often blown up. Melb FC's Chinese venture is one such example. Nothing will come of that as they didn't even take it very seriously.
The AFL should make a concerted effort and focus on specific countries, rather than a piecemeal approach.
US is the obvious market to target. Seems many are scared of the unrealistic thought of the US taking over the game and taking all our best players.
A realistic vision is that it would establish a niche and feed into the elite AFL competition.
- Banned
- #28
No, I assume you have no logic to make that assumption .
I said "But if I was in South Africa and somebody was showing some interest in me then I'd probably give them the time of day ".
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- Banned
- #29
Anything in particular .
A bit contradictory don't you think ?
The only country the AFL is specifically targeting big time is the RSA.
Like the PNG pathway .
Cassio del Monte
Debutant
And you ASSUME they'd be interested.
- Banned
- #31
As I said "if I was in South Africa and somebody was someone was showing some interest in me then I'd probably give them the time of day ".
The implication is that nobody has invested any time in a lot of South Africans . So naturally they'd be appreciative of anybody showing any interest
in them . "Dropping whatever interest" is not really a big issue when you don't have much to drop. And yes, it would be quite easy to sell the idea Australian Football there when you seem to to have a natural flair for the game and when it could be your lifeline.
Really , give up on the lightweight trolling attempt .
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Hardly got anything to do with trolling. Soccer thinks its the greatest thing since slice bread and thinks that automatically Yanks and Australians are going to love it. Not so. Same goes with the AFL, people are not going to like it just cos you think its fast, and hard, and that SA'ns have a "flaire for the game" As far as Im aware, they have a flair for badminton aswell. Perceptions are a wonderful thing, but this whole India thing.... I mean come on. Virtually zero history in the country. Some people are just blinded by their allegiances. They cant see the clear picture that its very hard in this day and age to come in and establish yourself as a sport. People think soccer in this country has taken off, but really, its still the same old establishment that followed it before that still follows it. And before soccer trolls jump on my back, Ive been a follower since the age of 6, so resist attacking.
- Banned
- #33
That's why it has something to do with trolling.
The South Africans have already demonstrated their flair for the game by being competitive in junior games against australian representitive sides .
It has been demonstarated that it is easier to "sell" Australian Football to
a lot of South Africans because there are less distractions than in most countries .
- Thread starter
- #34
Almost all the statistics in the AFL report are exaggerated and create an unrealistic impression:
http://www.afl.com.au/Portals/0/afl_docs/afl_hq/annual_reports/2007/GameDevelopment.pdf
"There was also significant growth in China where the game is being
played in three regions (Suzhou, Tian Jin and Beijing) with senior
matches also being played in the university sector" - please, it makes it sound like there are established competitions with regular games between several teams.
"Melbourne took a major role in promoting the game in China and strengthening the links between China and Melbourne" - knowing one of the guys involved, it was all show and no substance. Melbourne sent a small bunch of rookies over and that was it.
"5500 children were involved in FootyWild, the South African version of NAB AFL Auskick at more than 80 centres" - centres = clinics which are not regular games. They were once off centres.
The vast majority of players on the international stage are still ex-pats. Look at pictures on worldfootynews.com of all the white guys playing in Asia.
Contradictory? Hardly - see my earlier posts, the latent interest in the US is huge. It just needs a co-ordinated effort to tap into it. Once a critical mass is reached the US could run itself and will not continually be reliant on Australian funding like Sth Africa will be. The US has the potential to increase the value of TV rights even if only a small niche market is created.
Sth Africa - Soccer world cup coming up will swamp all efforts of the AFL. Funding is NOT sustainable, reliant on once-off grants, except the AFL's contribution. In any case it will not add a dollar to TV rights as the AFL is targeting poor communities who advertisers couldn't care less about. Not sustainable. Worth trying, but focus should be on markets that can be sustainable and add value to the AFL.
PNG developed on its own without the AFL's help. AFL has had a strong tradition there for quite some time. All credit to Queensland AFL who did all the work there to establish the pathway.
Cassio del Monte
Debutant
Find me an NSL Grand Final that got 55,436 in attendance.
- Banned
- #36
An appropiate response at this early stage don't you think ?
So all the competitions and playoffs in the provinces are fictional ?
Is that why we have the International Cup ?
Big if . The money injection is always going to be manyfold
that of of a developing nation .
So you Know better than the AFL .
akazie
Team Captain
There were a number of NSL GF's that outdrew last season's A-League decider but who cares?
This thread is about international expansion of Australian football, not soccer, so can you please go back to big soccer and stop clogging up this board with off-topic posts.
I suggest you read some history on the early years of football in Melbourne. If you did so you would realise that for many years games were organised on an ad hoc basis, a number of clubs came and went and it took 20 years for the VFA to be established as the governing body for the code.
Likewise it will be a long process to establish viable competitions in other countries. For all that there are people playing the game overseas who have never been near Australia and were not brought up on the game. I can't see how concentrating solely on the USA is a better strategy than what is happening at the moment.
Cassio del Monte
Debutant
The old NSL had bigger GF attendances than last years
To be fair, that was a game between the two smallest clubs, and it was held in a neutral city.
Well, it just so happens that "soccer" is a very, very big part of the international.
1. Yeah right... the neutral city just down the road, freeway, and rail line.
2. You're a soccer troll, your m.o. is to post something about soccer not matter how tenuous the link.
Cassio del Monte
Debutant
A-League clubs don't have a big tradition of travelling, so ~36000 in a neutral city for a game between the two smallest clubs, in a league that's three years old, that's still pretty good.
I'm not nearly smart enough to be a troll.
- Banned
- #43
Well certainly you're not smart enough to realise we're talking about the
international expansion of Australian football here .
Incorrect, US Footy (especially California) has developed into a very well organised competition. I have been there and witnessed it first hand. Sides like the San Diego Lions are so strong you just can't turn up and get a game. You actually have to play for one of their 4 "metro" feeder sides and get promoted.
I agree with you though in that in years to come the US will be a niche feeder market. I can definitely see a player making an AFL list in the next 10-15 years from the US....possibly earlier.
Cassio del Monte
Debutant
Well certainly you're not smart enough to realise we're talking about the
international expansion of Australian football here .
Again, the AFL can't expand internationally without acknowledging football. Deal with it.
- Banned
- #46
Is that how you try and justify your soccer trolling ?
"Australian Football- you cannot pass the soccer troll without paying respect ".
Oh , now it's all coming back to me , Rugby setting up S12 said "oh we can't have an international rugby competition across South Africa, Australia and New Zealand because they all play soccer and eventually we'll lose out ."
Yep, that's how I remember it .
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Cassio del Monte
Debutant
Is that how you try and justify your soccer trolling ?
"Australian Football- you cannot pass the soccer troll without paying respect ".
Oh , now it's all coming back to me , Rugby setting up S12 said "oh we can't have an international rugby competition across South Africa, Australia and New Zealand because they all play soccer and eventually we'll lose out ."
Yep, that's how I remember it .
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Oh yeah, that's the kind of intellect that'll help AFL conquer the world.
- Banned
- #48
Well it's good that people are starting to talk about expansion overseas .
It seems the AFL are gathering some methodology that goes beyond just
playing cost neutral exhibition games, just like domestically the AFL has realised that it requires a multi pronged strategy to ensure the maximum
number of people are open to supporting and participating in Australian Football.
It seems the AFL are gathering some methodology that goes beyond just
playing cost neutral exhibition games, just like domestically the AFL has realised that it requires a multi pronged strategy to ensure the maximum
number of people are open to supporting and participating in Australian Football.
- Thread starter
- #49
Rather than argue small points with Cos and Subprime - my point is the, the AFL should have a greater focus on developing a niche in the US.
Admittedly I look at it more from a commercial perspective - to grow the value of the AFL brand. Demetriou, being quite left of centre and verging on being a commie, seems intent on using AFL to pursue his social agenda and is quite passionite about helping poor kids in Africa. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Aussie Rules, as a sporting product, would be well positioned to take a niche in the US. We all know that as a sport it is one of the best to participate in (if you don't mind some contact) offering a great variety of skills that all players can use (handball, mark, field kick, goal kick, tackle, bump, ruckwork etc), scope for individual flair (high mark, dummies, runs etc..), freedom from restrictive rules (offside) and roles (specialised roles in Gridiron etc), and few restrictions on player types (size) that can play (e.g. basketball). These are the strengths of AFL and it could easily attract players in the US if it could get itself organised.
There is of course some debate (mostly from soccer/rugby circles) on it's merits as a spectator sport - but they come from sports where order, uniformity and rules abound so its understandable they get annoyed at 'apparent' chaos and mistakes that go unpunished.
As pointed out in an earlier post, the latent interest is there in the US (over 7m people watch it each year despite limited presence on TV). So they don't have a lot of the hang ups of these soccer and rugby types with our game. From a commercial perspective that 7m figure is not something to ignore (double the Australian annual audience). If you can build the game from the grass roots in america, build the TV presence, it is not unrealistic to imagine such an investment increasing the value of the AFL brand.
There are also large amounts of money available for sporting bodies in the US that could be tapped into in addition to AFL money. Once the game becomes established it would quickly be financially self sufficient.
Infrastructure needs to be addressed. No ready made footy grounds obviously. Although they can be created easily on large public sporting grounds.
There is also a large ex-pat population in the US.
It would go down very well, in my opinion. Countries like Sth Africa/India will require the AFL to pump in lots of money for a long time to keep it going and stave off the threat from other sports, particularly soccer in Sth Africa (world cup being hosted there in a few years). Not that it's not worth trying.
It seems that there is some fear amongst some people, including a few who posted on here, that if we target countries like the US, the game will become 'too' popular there and they will take it over resulting in the AFL being a feeder comp. That is very unrealistic (and wishful) if you look at the experience of soccer in the US. You will never dislodge their national home made sports or come close. A niche is all you could hope for, but even that is good enough. The fear of being taken over also discloses a hidden belief that those people think that it would suceed in the US.
In the scenario, however unlikely, that AFL grows in the US - as long as AFL is beamed into the US and grassroots growth in the US translates to greater TV rights for the premier AFL competition, the creme of the crop will stay in Australia where the money will stay.
With such huge latent interest in the game in the US (7m) - the opportunity is too big to ignore.
Admittedly I look at it more from a commercial perspective - to grow the value of the AFL brand. Demetriou, being quite left of centre and verging on being a commie, seems intent on using AFL to pursue his social agenda and is quite passionite about helping poor kids in Africa. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Aussie Rules, as a sporting product, would be well positioned to take a niche in the US. We all know that as a sport it is one of the best to participate in (if you don't mind some contact) offering a great variety of skills that all players can use (handball, mark, field kick, goal kick, tackle, bump, ruckwork etc), scope for individual flair (high mark, dummies, runs etc..), freedom from restrictive rules (offside) and roles (specialised roles in Gridiron etc), and few restrictions on player types (size) that can play (e.g. basketball). These are the strengths of AFL and it could easily attract players in the US if it could get itself organised.
There is of course some debate (mostly from soccer/rugby circles) on it's merits as a spectator sport - but they come from sports where order, uniformity and rules abound so its understandable they get annoyed at 'apparent' chaos and mistakes that go unpunished.
As pointed out in an earlier post, the latent interest is there in the US (over 7m people watch it each year despite limited presence on TV). So they don't have a lot of the hang ups of these soccer and rugby types with our game. From a commercial perspective that 7m figure is not something to ignore (double the Australian annual audience). If you can build the game from the grass roots in america, build the TV presence, it is not unrealistic to imagine such an investment increasing the value of the AFL brand.
There are also large amounts of money available for sporting bodies in the US that could be tapped into in addition to AFL money. Once the game becomes established it would quickly be financially self sufficient.
Infrastructure needs to be addressed. No ready made footy grounds obviously. Although they can be created easily on large public sporting grounds.
There is also a large ex-pat population in the US.
It would go down very well, in my opinion. Countries like Sth Africa/India will require the AFL to pump in lots of money for a long time to keep it going and stave off the threat from other sports, particularly soccer in Sth Africa (world cup being hosted there in a few years). Not that it's not worth trying.
It seems that there is some fear amongst some people, including a few who posted on here, that if we target countries like the US, the game will become 'too' popular there and they will take it over resulting in the AFL being a feeder comp. That is very unrealistic (and wishful) if you look at the experience of soccer in the US. You will never dislodge their national home made sports or come close. A niche is all you could hope for, but even that is good enough. The fear of being taken over also discloses a hidden belief that those people think that it would suceed in the US.
In the scenario, however unlikely, that AFL grows in the US - as long as AFL is beamed into the US and grassroots growth in the US translates to greater TV rights for the premier AFL competition, the creme of the crop will stay in Australia where the money will stay.
With such huge latent interest in the game in the US (7m) - the opportunity is too big to ignore.
There is no doubt the US is a huge market and defintely agree with your assessment of soccer and rugby fans and why they find it hard to relate to. Soccer big on foot skills, rugby big on ball retention.
However, if you have a read of the USfooty website it gives you some insight into how difficult it is to find ovals to play on and that is the only way the game will truly grow. It has to be from grass roots, teams, comps, juniors, they grow to become real fans with local connection.
I like South Africa and India becuase of no entrenched football code and cricket ovals. We are talking decades not years though.
I'm also surprised we havent pushed the game into Ireland, perhaps it is a deal with the GAA, but a concerted TV push with $ rights should be on the agenda.
Redb
