International Rules

[Benny]

Are you Aussies ready for another thrashing by us Irish amatuers!? Seriously, the rules series is a fantastic outlet for both our games. Where else (with the exception of our other game, hurling) are you going to get such full-blooded committment and skill at an unbelievable pace? Our team is obviously weakened by the loss of the Galway and Kerry players, but this shouldn't detract from what should be a great spectacle.
While obviously rooting for the home team, I think that for the benefit of the series generally, it mightn't be a bad thing for you guys to win.
Also, any thoughts on expanding the game by organising tournaments between actual clubs/counties?

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Welcome to BigFooty Benny

As usual, us Aussies are really going to have our work cut out to beat you guys. Inspite of your withdrawals (we've had a couple ourselves) and the fact your coach has declared you the underdogs, I still think you have the edge.

We find it very difficult to match up on guys effectively, whilst Australians have the edge in upper - body strength, height and overhead marking ability, you Irishmen just burn us off for pace every time.

... and this IR hybrid game is so fast that it is the team with the most pace and stamina that wins.

We have considerable trouble with the round ball and how to get it under the crossbar and into the net, whilst you guys can't really handle our tackling, bumping and general 'hardness' at the physical contest.

Should be a terrific series, can't wait for it to get going.

On another matter Benny can I ask you about the set up with your GAA over in Ireland. Apparently your Hurlers and Footballers are all staunchly amateur, Is it true you have no form of 'pay for play' at all ?

For most of its history Australian Rules has been semi-professional, but is now moving quite rapidly towards full professionalism. How do the GAA sports attract players and supporters without serious money in the game ?

How do you compete with Association Football and professional Rugby ?

 

[eagleskickass]

Agree totally bsa, should be a great series and congrats to the aussies for winning there practise match. Roll on the tests AND COME ON AUSSIES COME ON.

 

[Benny]

Yes it's true that both hurlers and footballers don't get paid a single penny. The way that the GAA still manages to be the biggest sporting organisation in the country is simply because of the love of the game. For the vast majority of our players, simply having the honour of representing their club or especially their county is what entices them to give such committment. It's worth remembering that all inter-county teams train on average, 3 nights a week (that's after a days work) from December/January onwards, for a championship that starts in May. Also when you consider that this championship is run on a knockout basis and all this training could only result in one game, you get some idea of the pride (insanity!?) these players have in merely being afforded the chance of wearing their county's jersy. Compare this to the attitude of professionals in other codes.
However, recently things have begun to change slightly. Earlier this year a group called The Gaelic Players Associatio (GPA) was formed to help top inter-county hurlers and footballers make money from sponsorship deals. Although this group is not recognised by the GAA, it has the support of almost all of the big name players.Yet even this group can hardly be seen as radical, in that they clearly state that they are not seeking cash for playing, instead merely permitting players to make money on spomsorship.
I don't think our games will ever become fully professional because the country isn't big enough to support this. However, I am curious to know how the Australian system of semi-professionalism works. Do players play the game full time, or do they have to have jobs as well?
In the mean time, may the best team win!

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Thanks for that Benny

For most of its history the VFL / AFL was semi-professional in that players got paid match fees for playing. It used to be that the governing body set the fees and during the 1920's - 1950's this was fixed at around 3 pounds per game. Of course star players could negoiate whatever fees and payments the market could stand, for example in the 1930's Richmond star rover Jack Dyer was paid 10 pounds a game whilst his teamates had to settle for 3 pounds a game.

At the same time the players also had jobs, fulltime jobs as well so it was much like your setup in Ireland where the payers would be very busy boys indeed with fulltime jobs followed by training 3 nights a week, a game on Saturday afternoon and often of course in those days a fulltime job meant working Saturday mornings as well !

The situation here is now changing rapidly, the palyers are paid handsome salaries, and also do sponsorship deals, television appearances, guest writing for press and TV and on it goes. With the average player salary in the AFL now ar ound $100,000 a year there is little or no need to work a day job to make a living. However most football clubs agree that full-time professionalism is not necessarily such a great thing as far as player welfare goes. Fulltime pro's have too much spare time and too much spare cash on their hands and get up to mischief, also having nothing but football in their lives day in and day out dosn't prepare these guys well enough to deal with life after football, they end up when footy is over as being un-employable and not having enough life skills to be able to cope with life in the real world.

Thats why most players these days are encouraged to take at least partime jobs, start their own small businesses or study at University whilst playing their footy.

cheers

 

[eagleskickass]

Thats a good sum up, of both codes and it is good to hear how they differ moneywise. I would play aussie rules just because I could, if I were good enough, and if need-be I would do it for free.

 

[Peter P]

Well Benny you nimbly side-stepped my thread with the same title - but I'll forgive you that. Get your mates along and we can have some real good talk to be sure, to be sure!

I'm disappointed so far with the Aussie press coverage (still all Olympics) and that Seven is only showing the game live in the dead of night. No doubt the VCR's will be running round the nation and some bleary eyed for work in the morn. But I notice in today's Advertiser that a big Sth Australian Footy commentator, Graham Cornes, who's been a scathing critic of the IR Series in the past seems to have had a Road to Damascus experience in today's article - sounds like he's in Dublin with the team and caught up in the spirit.

The Irish press are getting into it though - http://www.ireland.com/sports/gaa/

 

[Benny]

Sorry about that Peter P!
Yea, the throw-in time is a bit off putting for you guys alright. Mind you, for the series last year, I remember being in a pub at 10 in the morning for the games. The place was packed, with a terrific atmosphere. Personally, I'm in America at the minute, so I won't get to see the games until the tapes get sent over, though I will be able to hear them via the web.
Just out of curiousity, has the series grown in popularity in Australia? It was great to see such crowds for last years games so I hope that will continue.
Also, in terms fo the game itself, do you think it's still weighted too heavily in favour of our side? If so, any suggestions on how to improve it? As an aside, critics of the series in Ireland claim that Gaelic football is now becoming more like Aussie rules, while Aussie rules hasn't felt the need to take anything from Gaelic.

 

[ballyb..]

I miss the hitting that was in the first few series. May be wet for the first game so it could be a scrappy match. Use the oval ball occasionally, and get rid of the goalkeepers and the 6 point goal. Might be too like Australian Rules but we'd still give them a game...Anyways UP THE KINGDOM!!....

 

[Peter P]

Top o' the evening to you Benny and BallyB. So you're a Kerryman, BallyB. My grandmother was from Valencia island and i was going for Kerry in the final. Great they won.

what is the Sam Maguire? Moynihan is touring the country with it. Is it the premiership cup? Will Moynihan play in the second Test?

The series I think has done more than either the AFL or GAA could've hoped for in the first three years. 5 thrillers from 5 matches is a better rate than in an AFL season....[dear Lord give us a close Grand Final!!!!] It is a pity that the live telecast is in the wee hours of a Monday morn. No replay by Channel Seven - but some great highlights in the evening news. Also one of the fiercest critics of the IR series is Graham Cornes - big South Aussie footy personality and former Crows coach - he's over with the team and his reports show a dramatic conversion on the road to Dublin.

So in answer - yes - I think the series will grow into something very big over the next few years. Wayne Jackson, AFL President said as much on the eve of the First Test.

Question - will they pack Croke Park for the second Test? To 60% fill it the day after the emotion etc of a Grand Final is not bad -and given yesterdays game it'd have to have gathered momentum in Ireland - how much momentum chaps?

 

[Benny]

As I said in the other post Peter P, the Sam is the All-Ireland trophy, we don't call it the premiership.
Also, 5 good games out of 5 is equally impressive for our code, given that some of the games on recent years have been appalling. This year's championship was an improvement, but doesn't come with the guarntees of the rules' games.
Expect the crowd to be even larger the next day, especially since we lost the first test.
Also, it should be the best of three games, not two.

 

[Arch]

here is a slightly older thread on this topic, which has a few of our ideas to make the int series more evenly weighted. Maybe worth a look for you newbies.
http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000824.html

 

[Irish Bomber]

I've been a regular visitor and enjoyed the discussions on this board but have been a bit shy and have never posted before. I wonder if anyone who subscribes to C7 can help me.
We had (yet another) power blackout on Sunday night/Monday morning, so the VCR didn't deliver a tape of the much-awaited first International Rules match. Contacting the AFL, AFL Films, AFL Videos, Channel Seven and Optus yielded the only option of paying $115 PER HOUR to provide a tape (ie $345 for the match). Optus/C7 is not available in this area (Mornington Peninsula, south of Melbourne) so I can't subscribe even if I wished to. But apparently C7 is replaying the first match at about 9 pm (eastern summer time I think) on Saturday the 14th, the night before the second match.
If anyone who does receive C7 is willing to record a tape for me, I would be very very grateful. Please email me (lynwilks@ozemail.com.au) if you would be willing to help out.
Cheers

 

[Benny]

Arch,
In terms of the ball being heavier, I totally agree. It's interesting to note that the actual ball used in Gaelic football IS heavier. Also, your suggestion of using a different ball so that both teams have to adjust might be worth a try. Hell, this is an experimental game anyway, so one or two alterations shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Peter P]

I'm actually taking up Gaelic Football this summer here in Sth Aust. it's interesting that there is quite a growth in gaelic football since the recent revival of the international rules. In the twilight (or dead of night) of my sporting career - I don't find the round O'Neills too hard to adapt to. Sure a Sherrin would be easier. I think the Aussies will always find the round ball easier than the Irish the oval ball - what is the alternative - a slightly oval ball? a square ball??

Anyway I gather 45,000 seats presold and the capacity being 55,000 it may well be a full house at Croke Pk tomorrow - so lets hope its a great game and a close win to the Aussies. Oi Oi Oi!!!

 

[Peter P]

PS Irish Bomber - I phoned Channel Seven about the lack of a replay on fta at a reasonable time - I had trouble with my VCR giving a sratchy picture. Sounds like they've had a few complaints. Given the longer term viability of this series is more assured with yesterdays announcement of a 4 year extension - I think we'll get better coverage next time the games are in Dublin.

 

[Benny]

Peter P, has Gaelic football really taken off that much in Australia? Also, is it just football, or has hurling increased in popularity as well? There's actually two games on in Croke Park tomorrow as Ireland play Scotland in the annual hurling/shinty international. Shinty and hurling are relatively close, similar to footy and gaelic. This annual fixture gets little publicity, so the GAA decided to use the popularity of the football to promote it.
Going back to the football, we've got Seamus Moynihan back for the game. While he is a huge asset, it's inevitable that he will be suffering the effects of Kerry's celebrations. C'MON IRELAND!!

 

[Peter P]

That's interesting about the shinty-hurling, so shinty is scottish hurling, I wondered what it was.

Its mainly Gaelic Football - there are women's, men's and junior teams participating at Norwood Oval from WA, SA, Vic, Qld and NSW this week. There's a couple of states with Hurling teams. The game is strong in NSW where there's a large Irish population, but in SA for instance the number of teams has gone from 4 to 12 and women's has gone from 2 to 5 in the last couple of years.