Heardy_101
LET'S GO BRANDON
So basically the SANFL + all the non-aligned clubs in the VFL. Could work but knowing the SANFL, it wouldn't want to do it without them getting some sort of $$ benefit.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Is 9 teams too many?
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A very interesting concept, one that could form a southern national football league administered by the SANFL and VFL. I doubt it would happen though even though i like the sound of it. Has the bonus of securing the VFL when the AFL moves to a reerves side.
As a simpler solution for the SANFL, could the addition of a Tassie side be a step towards arguing for an AFL lience and be easier to implement?
Other suggestions of a west coast peninsula side could work, but the SANFL would need to work out free flights with REX.
Separate but interesting would be a southern champions league if the WAFl, SANFL and VFL could find sponsorship and operate as a better form of the Foxtel Cup.
As a simpler solution for the SANFL, could the addition of a Tassie side be a step towards arguing for an AFL lience and be easier to implement?
Other suggestions of a west coast peninsula side could work, but the SANFL would need to work out free flights with REX.
Separate but interesting would be a southern champions league if the WAFl, SANFL and VFL could find sponsorship and operate as a better form of the Foxtel Cup.
- May 3, 2007
- 39,380
- 23,010
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Other Teams
- Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
Why would the Magpies want to leave the SANFL?
There are rumours the other clubs want to boot them out.
Probrably goes back to the days Port Adelaide tried to get into the AFL in 1990.
Still I dont like having a 9 team league. Still remember a complaint of a current Crow player (cant remember the name) that was dropped to the local league glenelg, yet couldnt play the week after because glenelg had the bye. So he had to play against a reserves under 18 side.
- May 3, 2007
- 39,380
- 23,010
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Other Teams
- Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
My biggest concern is the cost. the only drawback is buying plane tickets for an SA team to Fly to victoria and vice versa. That would cost a bit
There is a possible idea (which is pinched in part from the Netball).
*if* there was 8 SANFL teams and 8 VFL teams, they play a 22 round system.
That is, the SANFL and VFL teams play their own state's (conference) teams twice (home and away).
Then (say the middle rounds) they play each of the other state's sides - 4 at home and 4 away.
This would mean each side would only have to travel 4 times during the year (Home and Away).
sturtman
Debutant
Unfortunately the SANFL doesn't get to plan what the AFL does. AFL reserves teams would be far too weak to compete in the SANFL and IMO would remain easy beats forever and a day continually replenished by very young inexperienced players, the reason I think you see the poor performances from the AFL clubs in the VFL. Geelong was an aberration because they were at the hieght of their powers in 07 and had a depth and wealth of experienced AFL listed players, but those days are gone.
So I'd prefer Sturt to have a bye as risk injury for some cheap points. Getting a rest after 8 games generally suits the SANFL clubs if not so much the fans. There's no hurry IMO to rush in and abolish the bye. The SANFL is a very even comp and there are no easy matches, so why stuff it up? The AFL is probably very jealous of that anyway. We need to get the AFL sorted out better before tinkering around with the SANFL. For Example why do we have two northern based AFL teams in Power at Alberton and the Crows at Westlakes for crying out loud? The Power being based at Alberton is choking the Magpies out of any real sponsorship opportunities, it's the wrong club in the wrong place.
With crowds now around the teens of thousands only, it's gonna die eventually, even playing games out of Adelaide Oval, it can't be saved and we need to bite the bullet on that. The second AFL franchise should be playing out of Noarlunga so that both halves of Adelaide have access to AFL football. The best long term solution could be a Power/Sturt/Norwood merger that would find it's home at Hickenbottom Oval. The Sturt/Norwood(SANFL club to stay at Coopers) merger would then bring the SANFL back to eight sides with the AFL club assisting with strong funding and player development arrangements with South Adelaide strengthening South as a Noarlunga and district community club. Matches between the Crows and Noarlunga (Showdowns) should be played at Adelaide Oval so supporters of both clubs meet half way. There will then be 30,000 plus supporters at each AFL game and guaranteed packed house for showdowns and bye bye to the bye in the SANFL.
So I'd prefer Sturt to have a bye as risk injury for some cheap points. Getting a rest after 8 games generally suits the SANFL clubs if not so much the fans. There's no hurry IMO to rush in and abolish the bye. The SANFL is a very even comp and there are no easy matches, so why stuff it up? The AFL is probably very jealous of that anyway. We need to get the AFL sorted out better before tinkering around with the SANFL. For Example why do we have two northern based AFL teams in Power at Alberton and the Crows at Westlakes for crying out loud? The Power being based at Alberton is choking the Magpies out of any real sponsorship opportunities, it's the wrong club in the wrong place.
With crowds now around the teens of thousands only, it's gonna die eventually, even playing games out of Adelaide Oval, it can't be saved and we need to bite the bullet on that. The second AFL franchise should be playing out of Noarlunga so that both halves of Adelaide have access to AFL football. The best long term solution could be a Power/Sturt/Norwood merger that would find it's home at Hickenbottom Oval. The Sturt/Norwood(SANFL club to stay at Coopers) merger would then bring the SANFL back to eight sides with the AFL club assisting with strong funding and player development arrangements with South Adelaide strengthening South as a Noarlunga and district community club. Matches between the Crows and Noarlunga (Showdowns) should be played at Adelaide Oval so supporters of both clubs meet half way. There will then be 30,000 plus supporters at each AFL game and guaranteed packed house for showdowns and bye bye to the bye in the SANFL.
Heardy_101
LET'S GO BRANDON
Aren't the Power and the Magpies One Club these days?
- May 3, 2007
- 39,380
- 23,010
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Other Teams
- Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
what about Gawler?
a fair bit of people live there. Plus theres a Train Station as well. Half of the SANFL grounds you can get to by public transport from the city.
Heardy_101
LET'S GO BRANDON
What I meant was, in regarding to the recent "One Club" "Merger" if you can call it that.
Mount Gambier (drawing on support from country Vic) or Whyalla (drawing from Augusta / Pirie) is the only realistic option of expanding. I think it would be a great success, although damaging to the zones for the established clubs.
Crowds wouldn't be any worse than say West Adelaide or South and I imagine corporate support would be equally as strong. Scotts Transport for Gambier and BHP in Whyalla.
10 team comp would be much more credible.
Crowds wouldn't be any worse than say West Adelaide or South and I imagine corporate support would be equally as strong. Scotts Transport for Gambier and BHP in Whyalla.
10 team comp would be much more credible.
Heardy_101
LET'S GO BRANDON
Have an Iron Triangle team, drawing from both the Whyalla and Spencer Gulf Leagues, may even put both into one league again how it was.
Mount Gambier bit too far off though, perhaps Murray Bridge or a Mount Barker side?
Mount Gambier bit too far off though, perhaps Murray Bridge or a Mount Barker side?
I'd prefer to see a promotion-relegation system linking the SANFL and the SA Amateur Football League (SAAFL). There are a number of sides in the SAAFL that are more financial and have better facilities than struggling clubs like Sturt.
If Sturt can get away with playing on a public park and erecting a temporary fence every home game, then I think you'll find the SAAFL is already up-to-speed.
Finish bottom in the SANFL? Down you go to the SAAFL. It would be bloody awesome and would surely spark further interest and greater coordination and cooperation in local footy.
But whatever we do, let's not create any more made-up franchises. REAL football clubs are what get the people to the footy.
If Sturt can get away with playing on a public park and erecting a temporary fence every home game, then I think you'll find the SAAFL is already up-to-speed.
Finish bottom in the SANFL? Down you go to the SAAFL. It would be bloody awesome and would surely spark further interest and greater coordination and cooperation in local footy.
But whatever we do, let's not create any more made-up franchises. REAL football clubs are what get the people to the footy.
sturtman
Debutant
I agree. Unley oval is proving to be somewhat of a problem for Sturt. And a bit of an embarrassment for the league. As for being relegated on performance, that's a bit tough, and we were in the GF only three years ago, gee you guys have short memories, at least give us the grace to play for our spot, we can still win the odd match or two here and there.
Remember to that the merger I talked about between Norwood and Sturt was the competitor model put up against Port Adelaide, before the second franchise was sanctioned by the SANFL, It really should have been the option taken at the time, but pressure from the then VFL/AFL strong-armed the SANFL(the license holder) in going with Port Adelaide( for delivering SA star players to Victoria for a cheaper price), so there may be a good possibility that both clubs would be prepared to go ahead if there was something in it for them. The AFL could give Sturt in particular, a new clean start as well as clearing some of the SANFL congestion in the inner city regions by diving up the Unley zone, with one third to the new Norwood-Sturt franchise and two thirds defaulting to South Adelaide.
As for the Power? It strikes me that its long term survival at the next tier is in dire straights. Port supporters seem confused as to who is the real Port Adelaide? The answer to that will and should always be the Magpies. I don't understand why Port did not adopt their prision bars when they entered the AFL? Sure they couldn't be Black and White, but maybe Teal and white? If they'd taken that and disallowed the Maggies to use it, then maybe the distinction between AFL and SANFL would have been clearer in the supporters minds.
IMO you either need to kill off the Magpies and fully focus on the AFL, or leave it as an unrealised dream and let the Power join this merger and gain some breathing space for itself down south and for the Magpies in Alberton. There just isn't room for two Port Adelaide identities in Alberton. IMO if no action is taken the Power will inevertably fail. I very much doubt that the Adelaide Oval redevelopment will prevent its collapse long term, just prolong it. At least that way, Port Adelaide can retain a one third share in its original franchise and just maybe it can find a way to work itself back into the folds of the SANFL.
Remember to that the merger I talked about between Norwood and Sturt was the competitor model put up against Port Adelaide, before the second franchise was sanctioned by the SANFL, It really should have been the option taken at the time, but pressure from the then VFL/AFL strong-armed the SANFL(the license holder) in going with Port Adelaide( for delivering SA star players to Victoria for a cheaper price), so there may be a good possibility that both clubs would be prepared to go ahead if there was something in it for them. The AFL could give Sturt in particular, a new clean start as well as clearing some of the SANFL congestion in the inner city regions by diving up the Unley zone, with one third to the new Norwood-Sturt franchise and two thirds defaulting to South Adelaide.
As for the Power? It strikes me that its long term survival at the next tier is in dire straights. Port supporters seem confused as to who is the real Port Adelaide? The answer to that will and should always be the Magpies. I don't understand why Port did not adopt their prision bars when they entered the AFL? Sure they couldn't be Black and White, but maybe Teal and white? If they'd taken that and disallowed the Maggies to use it, then maybe the distinction between AFL and SANFL would have been clearer in the supporters minds.
IMO you either need to kill off the Magpies and fully focus on the AFL, or leave it as an unrealised dream and let the Power join this merger and gain some breathing space for itself down south and for the Magpies in Alberton. There just isn't room for two Port Adelaide identities in Alberton. IMO if no action is taken the Power will inevertably fail. I very much doubt that the Adelaide Oval redevelopment will prevent its collapse long term, just prolong it. At least that way, Port Adelaide can retain a one third share in its original franchise and just maybe it can find a way to work itself back into the folds of the SANFL.
sturtman
Debutant
I like the idea, but unfortunately that would simply devestate the Spencer Gulf Leagues. Pt Augusta and Port Pirie run the SGL, while Whyalla and Port Lincoln are stand alone distict competitions. Because large distances are covered by country leagues they need to be strong and financially viable to remain as units. Their gain is getting explayers back from the SANFL either as coaches or playing coaches, who have marked effects on the performance of these teams and their leagues. There is a very healthy reciplical relationship between the SANFL and its affiliated country leagues and by no means one way traffic.
I completely agree that the best move the SANFL could make would be to enter a tenth team from Mount Gambier. They have the population base to support an SANFL licence and draw strong crowd numbers. They could draw good corporate support from business like Scotts transport. The Western Border League is very strong and surrounding leagues like KNTFL, MSEFL, and others on the Vic side of the border would give them a strong player base to draw on. Mount Gambier would only need to revamp North Gambier oval and it would have a suitable established venue.
On the Unley Oval situation - I read a local article interviewing Matt Benson saying Sturt is now in debt by about $2.3 million. If the salary cap is $350,000 then can someone explain the breakdown of other club costs that make up the remaining $1.7million in expenses of a SANFL club given their budgets are around $2million? Even with coaching and ceo/admin staff salaries and leasing fees I can't imagine what is soaking up the rest??
Why would the Magpies want to leave the SANFL?
There are rumours the other clubs want to boot them out.
Ah yes, the old "The SANFL is out to get us" paranoia.
You'll find it's the AFL that will shut down the Magpies after the licences are transferred over. The AFL are not in the business of running clubs in other competitions.
Sturt are rooted financially but can survived beyond 2014 if the SANFL are committed to an eight team competition.
There's still ongoing debts from the 1990s that kept building up. That $400K loan to set up pokies can easily turn into a couple of million. Those things aren't cash cows for everyone.
I didn't mean to have a dig at Sturt in particular, I was just using them as the example of the day. But seriously, maybe the answer to Sturt's problems is a bit of downsizing and a stint in Div. 1? I have no desire to see Sturt or any other opposition club fold altogether.
It's all very well me arguing what a broken comp. the AFL is, with no promotion/relegation and 18 permanent franchises. The fact is, although we have real footy clubs in the SANFL - as opposed to a few VFL clubs and some made-up franchises - I think the SANFL set-up is just as broken as the AFL's.
It might be my British heritage coming out here, but #$%^ me if one-division competitions aren't the dullest format you could possibly imagine.
Sturt v South in the final round with the loser collecting the wooden spoon and being relegated? I'd be there as a neutral supporter (barring Centrals playing) with bells on!!
Couldn't agree more....one of the greatest examples of this was the old VFA, at it its peak in 1983 they had 2 divisions of 12 teams each with promotion and relegation. It makes me very sad to see how this league was killed off bit by bit, by the VFL. I honestly wish one day the remaining VFA clubs would break away from the VFL and reform the VFA (albeit on a much smaller salary cap).
I can't understand how a state with over 1 million people can't support a 10th SANFL side. If costs are too much, then reduce the salary cap until things improve. Merging and renaming/rebranding teams just doesn't work....all it does imho is destroy the proud and unique identity of each club.
We used to have 10 teams up until 1990 when Woodville and West Torrens merged. Woodville had only been in the comp since 1964 and never made a grand final. The introduction of Port Power and the Crows has had a significant and detrimental impact on the SANFL. It's not in a position to create a new metropolitan club - it's just trying to hang on to the ones it's got. Several years ago they were talking about a team from the NT but the NT went down the AFL path entering the NEAFL. Others have suggested setting up a new regional club such as Mt Gambier but this would impact negatively on the regional league. Then there's the Crows reserves option which isn't popular to fill the tenth spot.
I think we have to wait for two things to see what track we head down. Firstly we have to wait and see what happens with the Port AFL licence and see how they restructure. There is some likelihood that Port pulls out of the SANFL altogether to better manage its operations. If it pulls out - or gets kicked out - then the SANFL would naturally be reduced to 8 teams and no more byes.
Secondly we have to wait and see how the new Adelaide Oval management arrangements for the Crows and Port will benefit the SANFL through catering and other revenues which will flow back to the SANFL. Then the SANFL will know its financial position for the medium term and what return it can make to the SANFL clubs. This will shape the financial viability of SANFL clubs under the current SANFL structure.
Next option is the big decision. If after all this and the SANFL clubs still struggle where to from here? Does the league disappear into the oblivion of becoming a fully amateur competition where a game attracts 50 spectators and we lose 100+ years of tradition, or do we strive for something bigger and better. I still haven't come up with a working solution but I've been angling for a second tier national competition involving WAFL, SANFL and maybe some AFL/VFL 'rejects' forming a new league. The AFL would be totally opposed to this of course as they want total control and given that they've been setting up feeder competitions in all the non-traditional states for the AFL, they want the WAFL and SANFL to reduce to impotent feeder comps. Their blessing would desirable and their financial assistance but probably their response would be get knicked.
So can a second tier competition survive? I think so especially with some modest backing - which would be quite manageable by the AFL if they didn't squander all their money on start up ventures in every part of the country. Otherwise the only way to finance the competition is through media rights - and a second tier national competition can fill a niche in the market the AFL can't or won't. But you have to be a size that will attract a national football following in order to attract sponsors and media. So dispense with the SANFL and WAFL, merge and go for it. If it doesn't work out then dissolve the competition and go back to the old structure. Changing formats is nothing new. During the war years of WWI I think SANFL clubs combined in order to still play with limited numbers.
All I know is my club has a strong supporter base that would rally to the cause. I would still support the Crows but I would follow my main club too.
A second tier comp is an interesting idea...but I don't see it being viable having teams from the WAFL in it....having teams travel from and to WA would send teams broke, it is just too far....the air costs would be too high.
Rather, I see something like a South Eastern league (ie SEAFL), consisting of 14/16 teams from the SANFL, standalone VFL teams and maybe 2 teams from Tas (Hobart and Launceston). Perhaps other towns like Mt Gambier, Wodonga and Mildura etc could join down the track, depending on how successful it is. With this idea, I see most resistance coming from the SANFL...I don't see them going for it, as they have way too much to lose.
