Is it Bucks or the Players?

[Chrispiesssss]

I have witnessed several arguments on the train, on BF and in the Collingwood Cheersqaud. Who's to blame for our inconsistency!?
This is a serious issue.
Because no one can deny that when we play at a very high level, we are probably a top 8 team. The failure to do so falls on who?
It's an interesting argument that's been going on for the year basically.
They were just speaking about it on 360 before Robbo started yelling that it was "Bucks Job to remove the pull" over the players.
However, Gerard had a good point that everyweek we are basically in a furnace.

FWIW, I was a believer in "it's Bucks job to get the players up", but that changed on Saturday night. It's weird that we can bring out such a strong performance, under such severe circumstances but failure to do so under ordinary situations.
Personally, I don't think Bucks is to blame completely. However, I feel like if Bucks doesn't leave this year.
ITS GONNA BE THE SAME NEXT YEAR.

*Sorry for the long post*.

 

[CFC2010]

I have witnessed several arguments on the train, on BF and in the Collingwood Cheersqaud. Who's to blame for our inconsistency!?
This is a serious issue.
Because no one can deny that when we play at a very high level, we are probably a top 8 team. The failure to do so falls on who?
It's an interesting argument that's been going on for the year basically.
They were just speaking about it on 360 before Robbo started yelling that it was "Bucks Job to remove the pull" over the players.
However, Gerard had a good point that everyweek we are basically in a furnace.

FWIW, I was a believer in "it's Bucks job to get the players up", but that changed on Saturday night. It's weird that we can bring out such a strong performance, under such severe circumstances but fairly to do so under ordinary situation.
Personally, I don't think Bucks is to blame completely. However, I feel like if Bucks doesn't leave this year.
ITS GONNA BE THE SAME NEXT YEAR.

*Sorry for the long post*.

Apparently on bigfooty the coach isn't that important in terms of success.........so I am going the players.

Even though I voted Bucks

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Apparently on bigfooty the coach isn't that important in terms of success.........so I am going the players.

Even though I voted Bucks

^^^ shows how confusing and yet how important this question is.

 

[CFC2010]

^^^ shows how confusing and yet how important this question is.

Sorry chrispiessssss I was being a smart arse it's all on the coach IMO........or else we might as well make Pendles player coach next year and save $1 million.

 

[unplugged]

I think the reason we're seeing inconsistency is a result of the younger or inexperienced players. Players like Moore, Aish, DeGoey, Maynard, Schade, Phillips, Smith and probably a couple of others that are escaping me.

Even Adams and Treloar are going to have occasional down games until they hit their peak in 3 to 5 years.

Add to that, our experienced players coming in and out of form, ala Fasolo. Blair is constantly down but is still in the side more often than not.

The only really consistent players we've had this season are Pendlebury, Howe, Elliott (once he got going) Dunn, Sidebottom and Goldsack, which is saying something.

All of this compiled, mixed with a 22 that's constantly changing. This is where Buckley can gain some control. Get a better idea as to what the best 22 is going forward and try and hold the same team for 4-5 weeks.

 

[wicksy]

Add a third section... "both" and ill vote for that. K thx

 

[DT_fanatic]

The fact that it took a rev up - as admitted to by several players since the game - to get us to play the way we can and should demonstrates its more to do with the players. Not saying the coach isn't responsible as well but not as much as people think IMO. Why on earth do the players need a public dressing down before they act? They should be motivated enough already. The season is on the line basically every game. Lou Richards' passing not enough either apparently.

In saying that, and this is also going of Wheatley's comments on 360 as well, I think it's more a confidence issue than motivation. Several times during that first quarter we had players running past to receive but we kept going sideways and backwards. We need that 'screw it' attitude more in games, like Treloar said after the Cats game, we need to be more daring. It gives us a much better chance of winning.

I think that's how we intend to play but the players are far too afraid of the consequences. And admittedly against teams that dont allow us to play the way we want to - so actually there's a third factor here after bucks and the players, it's the opposition - it can be challenging but we have got to try. As I said, gives us our best shot.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

I think the reason we're seeing inconsistency is a result of the younger or inexperienced players. Players like Moore, Aish, DeGoey, Maynard, Schade, Phillips, Smith and probably a couple of others that are escaping me.

Even Adams and Treloar are going to have occasional down games until they hit their peak in 3 to 5 years.

Add to that, our experienced players coming in and out of form, ala Fasolo. Blair is constantly down but is still in the side more often than not.

The only really consistent players we've had this season are Pendlebury, Howe, Elliott (once he got going) Dunn, Sidebottom and Goldsack, which is saying something.

All of this compiled, mixed with a 22 that's constantly changing. This is where Buckley can gain some control. Get a better idea as to what the best 22 is going forward and try and hold the same team for 4-5 weeks.

Agreed. The lack of a consistent Best 22 hurts us a lot. Especially when you consider Hawthorns 3-peat had basically the same players bar a Handful.

 

[jathanas]

It's no so "black and white", excuse the pun.

Bucks ultimately has to own the result of each game, but the players have to own their own performance and decision making.

It's too simplistic to blame one or the other. It all works wonderfully well when the instructions/plan are clear and the players are able to execute.

We've had many examples of our coaching looking ordinary (or slow to respond) and just as many of our players making woeful decisions and let's not even talk about their kicking for goal.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Add a third section... "both" and ill vote for that. K thx

I think that's weak. Someone needs to cop the blame. We can no longer just blame both. There needs to be a direct correlation between problem and cause.

 

[Kappa]

If we have occasional inconsistent performances it's probably the players slacking off a bit.

If we are constantly inconsistent that becomes squarely a coaching issue

 

[DuckToaster]

The greatest coach of the past decade managed to blow a 43 point lead. Just let that sit with you and you'll realise how unimportant the coach is on game day.

 

[Leviathan Pie]

I'm not sure how 6 years of constant regression can be blamed on the players, and not the coach.

Especially since the coach has gutted a Premiership side, and created his 'own' list.

 

[left at home]

it is both, as both have to be able to believe on game time to get the best out of each other.
there is more than one coach though, they the line coaches as well as bucks have a role to play in it

 

[Kappa]

The greatest coach of the past decade managed to blow a 43 point lead. Just let that sit with you and you'll realise how unimportant the coach is on game day.

Yep, with a young team decimated by injuries in a rebuild after FOUR premierships it really proves how the senior coach is pretty much meaningless

 

[CFC2010]

The greatest coach of the past decade managed to blow a 43 point lead. Just let that sit with you and you'll realise how unimportant the coach is on game day.

Oh dear me.........

 

[Alexander323bc]

First I disagree with Bucks that players should be self motivated. That's idealistic a view as it comes. Sir Alex Ferguson was known for his hairdryer treatment. Ask David Beckham, best player at that time, about it. He copped a boot in the face.
He was out the door the next season. However to get away with hairdryer treatment you need street cred and Ferguson had it in spades by that stage. Unfortunately bucks doesn't have it at this stage. I think he knows that and that's why he has been all softly softly.
The players have not played together long enough. Some statistical analysis company predicted our slide down the ladder. They also predicted the doggies climb up the ladder last year.
Maybe just maybe we are exactly where we are meant to be.

 

[DT_fanatic]

The greatest coach of the past decade managed to blow a 43 point lead. Just let that sit with you and you'll realise how unimportant the coach is on game day.

+ not fielding the same class of players he's used to. It's the quality and execution of the players that ultimately decides the coaches fate. A really good coach - which Buckley probably isnt anyway - might be occasionally (probably closer to rarely tbh) able to overcome deficiencies in those areas but that's the best you can hope for.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Insert "why not both" meme.

Too many factors to just boil it down to Bucks vs Players.

For the record - i voted players because they are the ones who go out each week and can actually change it directly... but i do also think that ultimately the blame will sit with Bucks as coach (even if he has less control over it than the players themselves)... if that makes sense.

 

[Leviathan Pie]

Yep, with a young team decimated by injuries in a rebuild after FOUR premierships it really proves how the senior coach is pretty much meaningless

Genuinely lol-ed.

Response spot on.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

First I disagree with Bucks that players should be self motivated. That's idealistic a view as it comes. Sir Alex Ferguson was known for his hairdryer treatment. Ask David Beckham, best player at that time, about it. He copped a boot in the face.
He was out the door the next season. However to get away with hairdryer treatment you need street cred and Ferguson had it in spades by that stage. Unfortunately bucks doesn't have it at this stage. I think he knows that and that's why he has been all softly softly.
The players have not played together long enough. Some statistical analysis company predicted our slide down the ladder. They also predicted the doggies climb up the ladder last year.
Maybe just maybe we are exactly where we are meant to be.

Except Fergies treatment didnt work for all, his time came to an end (and Man U are a long way from ever being the same again) and its very debatable whether that would work now for the majority of players/teams.

Not saying Fergie couldn't be just as succesful if building a team now - but i reckon you would see a very different Sir Alex Ferguson in 2017 than you did in say 1997.

 

[whiskeytown]

It's the game plan IMO.

Emphasis is on retaining possession and on structure at the expense of creativity and risk. When the team backs itself and runs the results are usually better than when they slow the ball movement by chipping it around and switching play repeatedly.

I know opposition tactics play a part in this and as players tire the game naturally opens up more ... but think the Jekyll and Hyde football is a result of players too focused on doing the 'right' thing rather than attacking and backing themselves in the contest

 

[Horaceg]

The fact that it took a rev up - as admitted to by several players since the game - to get us to play the way we can and should demonstrates its more to do with the players. Not saying the coach isn't responsible as well but not as much as people think IMO. Why on earth do the players need a public dressing down before they act? They should be motivated enough already. The season is on the line basically every game. Lou Richards' passing not enough either apparently.

In saying that, and this is also going of Wheatley's comments on 360 as well, I think it's more a confidence issue than motivation. Several times during that first quarter we had players running past to receive but we kept going sideways and backwards. We need that 'screw it' attitude more in games, like Treloar said after the Cats game, we need to be more daring. It gives us a much better chance of winning.

I think that's how we intend to play but the players are far too afraid of the consequences. And admittedly against teams that dont allow us to play the way we want to - so actually there's a third factor here after bucks and the players, it's the opposition - it can be challenging but we have got to try. As I said, gives us our best shot.

I said Bucks for the reason that I think he takes a soft line with the players on occasion, needs to feed more emotion into it and get them to take more emotionally involved and a bit more mongrel. The same thing applies to Penders and other playing group leaders. When performance is down across the team, the Coach needs to motivate and not accept the ordinary, it's the Coach's job to get the best out of his talent, training, educating and motivating. Sometimes a good rev up and/or dressing down works.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Bit disappointed no ones posted this yet

 

[westozpie]

I'm not sure how 6 years of constant regression can be blamed on the players, and not the coach.

Especially since the coach has gutted a Premiership side, and created his 'own' list.

Kind of had to "gut" the list, you do know must went backwards from the grand finals time, much happier with this list than those that dream of the 2010/2011 list