Analysis Is Leppa the Right Man for the Job?

[stefoid]

Surely the board would be sounding out the players? We dropped McArtney like a hot spud when Griffen walked. Ill assume we were completely blindsided by that and did a consult with the playing group and found that a few of the young guns were borderline with Mcartney there. 3 milliseconds later, Mcartney 'resigns'. Then unsigned players like Dalhaus re-up a short while later.

 

[Davemonkey]

Surely the board would be sounding out the players? We dropped McArtney like a hot spud when Griffen walked. Ill assume we were completely blindsided by that and did a consult with the playing group and found that a few of the young guns were borderline with Mcartney there. 3 milliseconds later, Mcartney 'resigns'. Then unsigned players like Dalhaus re-up a short while later.

The board is behind the coach, particularly Lethal. I think the attitude at the Lions swings the other way and is more akin to Buckley cleaning out "the bus" at the Pies with the likes of Shaw and Didak getting moved on.

 

[stefoid]

The board is behind the coach, particularly Lethal. I think the attitude at the Lions swings the other way and is more akin to Buckley cleaning out "the bus" at the Pies with the likes of Shaw and Didak getting moved on.

McArtney was doing that anyway, and Beveridge is following suit with Lake, Cooney, Higgins and now Minson being more or less helped out of the club while they still had some value, but keeping guys like Picken, Murph, Boyd and Morris. There is a difference in attitude between those two groups that is either helpful, or unhelpful when building a young team.

 

[Albi_Mangler]

In the past few days my confidence in Leppa continuing on next year has shifted significantly. If you asked me a few weeks ago I would have said 'definitely'. Now I am not too sure and believe that he is holding on by a thread. If we were subject to the same scrutiny as Vic teams I would suggest he may have already been sacked.

Sure he has some excuses, however injuries and youth only tell part of the story for this season. Too many times effort has not been there, especially from the more experienced and leaders in the team, and the game style and tactics lacking. Players being shifted around, poor match ups, players looking lost or out of position. Our defense has copped some serious pummelings with KPFs kicking massive bags on them and the midfield has been appalling, an area where I thought we should be relatively strong.

Poor results on-field is one thing but once off-field issues start to gain traction on a number of fronts the end is nigh for the coach.

 

[Davemonkey]

McArtney was doing that anyway, and Beveridge is following suit with Lake, Cooney, Higgins and now Minson being more or less helped out of the club while they still had some value, but keeping guys like Picken, Murph, Boyd and Morris. There is a difference in attitude between those two groups that is either helpful, or unhelpful when building a young team.

I'm not sure (and have never really been) that Leppa was going to survive the path to the successful stages of the rebuild. It often takes two coaches, one to build and one to get the best out of a list primed by his predecessor. There are lots of exceptions (Clarko, Bomber Thompson), and that is my preferred trajectory but it is fair to say that McCartney left that list is a great shape for Beveridge to leverage for success.

 

[matwt73]

I would be interested to know how long most people think a new coach should get generally.

When Leppa came in, I think a lot of us were saying:

"He's on a tough wicket, very young team, we are going to get worse before we get better, may take some time, just want to see some signs and the kids developing"

Granted I don't think any of us thought that times would be so tough that we would trade in Christensen and Beams and still only win 3 games, but the basic parameters still exist.

We are still a frontier club (not Leppa's fault).
We still have rubbish facilities (not Leppa's fault).
We still have no key forward (I don't really think that is Leppa's fault)

On the other hand
- we have brought in and played a number of young players many of whom look like they could play a role for us moving forward
- we have developed and improved the side (through trading and development), to the extent that three players (Leuey, Redden and Adcock)who were easily best 22 when he came in are now either on the fringes or might be next year.
- we have shown glimpses (only glimpses) of speed and attractive transition play.

I'm not saying the buck doesn't stop with the coach. It does. But there is no real difference between 18th, 17th and 12, 11, 10, in a bleak sense. If when Leppa came in we were saying we don't expect successf or three years take the time you need, why would we move the goal posts now. We have had exactly the couple of seasons we were expecting, ie no success and lots of kids.

 

[Kevvo]

I would be interested to know how long most people think a new coach should get generally.

When Leppa came in, I think a lot of us were saying:

"He's on a tough wicket, very young team, we are going to get worse before we get better, may take some time, just want to see some signs and the kids developing"

Granted I don't think any of us thought that times would be so tough that we would trade in Christensen and Beams and still only win 3 games, but the basic parameters still exist.

We are still a frontier club (not Leppa's fault).
We still have rubbish facilities (not Leppa's fault).
We still have no key forward (I don't really think that is Leppa's fault)

On the other hand
- we have brought in and played a number of young players many of whom look like they could play a role for us moving forward
- we have developed and improved the side (through trading and development), to the extent that three players (Leuey, Redden and Adcock)who were easily best 22 when he came in are now either on the fringes or might be next year.
- we have shown glimpses (only glimpses) of speed and attractive transition play.

I'm not saying the buck doesn't stop with the coach. It does. But there is no real difference between 18th, 17th and 12, 11, 10, in a bleak sense. If when Leppa came in we were saying we don't expect successf or three years take the time you need, why would we move the goal posts now. We have had exactly the couple of seasons we were expecting, ie no success and lots of kids.

I mostly agree with this, and I think a lot of posters would.

I think the two remaining issues that divide opinion can be roughly grouped into:

• some posters feel strongly that it was important to keep more experience (ie should've kept Jed, shouldn't have marginalized Redden)
• some posters think its likely that we are going to lose other, less-replaceable players and that Leppa must play an important role in that.

The W-L situation has been disappointing, but as you say, not unpredictable. If we were to lose some of the younger players who rumours are circulating about, I'd re-evaluate. For now, I'm reasonably optimistic about improvement next year.

 

[Happy_Neale]

I would be interested to know how long most people think a new coach should get generally.

When Leppa came in, I think a lot of us were saying:

"He's on a tough wicket, very young team, we are going to get worse before we get better, may take some time, just want to see some signs and the kids developing"

Granted I don't think any of us thought that times would be so tough that we would trade in Christensen and Beams and still only win 3 games, but the basic parameters still exist.

We are still a frontier club (not Leppa's fault).
We still have rubbish facilities (not Leppa's fault).
We still have no key forward (I don't really think that is Leppa's fault)

On the other hand
- we have brought in and played a number of young players many of whom look like they could play a role for us moving forward
- we have developed and improved the side (through trading and development), to the extent that three players (Leuey, Redden and Adcock)who were easily best 22 when he came in are now either on the fringes or might be next year.
- we have shown glimpses (only glimpses) of speed and attractive transition play.

I'm not saying the buck doesn't stop with the coach. It does. But there is no real difference between 18th, 17th and 12, 11, 10, in a bleak sense. If when Leppa came in we were saying we don't expect successf or three years take the time you need, why would we move the goal posts now. We have had exactly the couple of seasons we were expecting, ie no success and lots of kids.

Not a bad post. From my point of view though we are much worse off than I thought we would be this season. I daresay three wins would be well below anybody's expectations and that is taking injuries into account. I don't think sacking Leppa is the answer but next year is make or break for him considering we have regressed in a number of areas under him.

 

[Nintendo Jones]

I like a lot of things about Leppa as a coach... but doubts have been creeping into my mind this year. The O'Brien thing with the Reserves... Jack Redden specifically stating that his relationship with Leppa is a cause for his probable departure.
I don't know how I feel about him as our coach. I like that he is honest, I LOVE that he fights hard for Brisbane... but he appears confrontational, and with our captain also being quite in-your-face it makes for a tough duo. Maybe that's a good thing, maybe it'll eventually get rid of everyone who doesn't belong. But I'm not confident on that at the moment.

 

[harvester]

I want vossy back

 

[carnthemlions]

The board is behind the coach, particularly Lethal. I think the attitude at the Lions swings the other way and is more akin to Buckley cleaning out "the bus" at the Pies with the likes of Shaw and Didak getting moved on.

I suppose it depends on how this plays out. If it's just a bit of discontent(let's face it, no one should be happy about being at the bottom of the ladder), that's to be expected. I'm optimistic about what Leppa's trying to to on field. Off the field, I'm not so sure about our direction. If this goes badly for us(exodus blah blah blah), I'd hope it's not just the coach whose position is looked at.

 

[ColdWarWarrior]

I want vossy back

No you can't be serious.

 

[cotter101]

What did Merrett say in his Radio interview today?

 

[MacMum]

, but I have to back Leppa for another year even though I am now firmly in the 'dunno' camp.

Me too.......but I saw Tom Harley interviewed the other day. Has comes from a very successful club (Cats), is assistant at Swans........and comes across as a very metro sort of guy.

Might appeal to the younger players. Trouble is his wife is editor of a magazine in Sydney.....so probably won't want to move to Brissy.

 

[Davemonkey]

Me too.......but I saw Tom Harley interviewed the other day. Has comes from a very successful club (Cats), is assistant at Swans........and comes across as a very metro sort of guy.

Might appeal to the younger players. Trouble is his wife is editor of a magazine in Sydney.....so probably won't want to move to Brissy.

I like Harley but I'm not sold on him as a coach. I do have a friend who would go a little weak at the knees if Harley came on at the Lions.


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[stefoid]

I'm not sure (and have never really been) that Leppa was going to survive the path to the successful stages of the rebuild. It often takes two coaches, one to build and one to get the best out of a list primed by his predecessor. There are lots of exceptions (Clarko, Bomber Thompson), and that is my preferred trajectory but it is fair to say that McCartney left that list is a great shape for Beveridge to leverage for success.

He and the club did a lot of things right - got the VFL side up and running, we appointed a full time list manager for the first time, and a decent recruiter. But he was an old fashioned dinosaur of a coach in the Paul Roos style that hasnt adapted to changing game styles and had poor player-relationships. We concentrated on contested ball and 1:1 defence to the exclusion of everything else. Doesnt how matter how good you are at covering up if you never hit back.

 

[SizeMatters]

I'm on the Rattan bandwagon. Hopefully Swann can convince him to come over even if Swann back stabbed him. Leppa can be a development coach for all I care he just needs to get out of the head job. He isn't suited to it.

 

[Mr Ripper]

*chortle*

 

[John_Proctor]

Harley isn't a coach. Isn't he Gm football or something at the swans?

I've been in the dunno all season based on football. Now doubling down on player relationships, but you just don't know from the outside.

 

[jasonrampage2010]

Bomber?

 

[lukiuslion]

Everything considered - i think I have shifted into the 'no' camp. Don't know if this week has spooked me or what, but i was already very worried but things just arn't looking good ATM.

This is looking very much like your classic Neeld appointment appointment, I can't see him turning it around. I'm not sure if we can sustain anymore of this sort of damage and uncertainty. This HR department thing just doesent sound good although at this stage unconfirmed.

A poster came on here some weeks ago claiming to have a source from the club who told him Leppa won't be the coach in 2016 - I'm starting to wonder if this sort of stuff was what he knew was coming as the trade period approached.

 

[a mayes ing]

Willing to give him another year, pretty glad that he didn't re-sign when he was offered another contract extension.

Not sure about Ratten, always a little uneasy about previous ex-coaches who were sacked.

 

[Albi_Mangler]

I liked Sanderson but also thought McKenna did a good job with the Suns.

 

[Davemonkey]

Willing to give him another year, pretty glad that he didn't re-sign when he was offered another contract extension.

Not sure about Ratten, always a little uneasy about previous ex-coaches who were sacked.

Where the Carlton Board is involved I would always give a sacked Carlton coaching staff member the benefit of the doubt.

 

[lionsfan85]

His time will be up if things dont improve next year . Sometimes past players dont make good coaches at the clubs look at vissy and hirdy even buckley is going badly at collingwood .