Is our future bright?

[lachy]

Hrovat can become A grade

Your opinion and judgement on what an A grader is. Libba, Bonti and Stringer most likely for me at this stage, then a strong possibly Macrae, I don't see anything in Hrovat to show he will be in this group at this stage

 

[immortalmike]

Mike don't lower ourself to Yebiga style comments like this

Your above that mate, I enjoy your posts even though most are wrong

Was being facetious. I'm sure I've been wrong many many times. I just can't remember any of them.

 

[Hrovat24]

Your opinion and judgement on what an A grader is. Libba, Bonti and Stringer most likely for me at this stage, then a strong possibly Macrae, I don't see anything in Hrovat to show he will be in this group at this stage

He has been injured in his first 2 years , give him a few preseasons and look out

 

[immortalmike]

Your opinion and judgement on what an A grader is. Libba, Bonti and Stringer most likely for me at this stage, then a strong possibly Macrae, I don't see anything in Hrovat to show he will be in this group at this stage

Disagree on Hrovat. I've seen nothing to indicate he won't be in that group.
Also Libba is already A grade. Top three in contested possessions, tackles, clearances and top ten in disposal efficiency. Superstar.

 

[lachy]

Disagree on Hrovat. I've seen nothing to indicate he won't be in that group.
Also Libba is already A grade. Top three in contested possessions, tackles, clearances and top ten in disposal efficiency. Superstar.

Hrovat does not actually hit targets at this stage, a must for a potential A grader. However, not to say he won't.

Libba is close to a bone fide a grader, now the best player on our list.

This season coming up he can confirm this. Superstars don't just have the stats, they influence games. As good as Libba is, and I rate him very highly, I saw Bonti do this more last season.

 

[immortalmike]

Hrovat does not actually hit targets at this stage, a must for a potential A grader. However, not to say he won't.

Libba is close to a bone fide a grader, now the best player on our list.

This season coming up he can confirm this. Superstars don't just have the stats, they influence games. As good as Libba is, and I rate him very highly, I saw Bonti do this more last season.

Disagree heavily on both counts. Libba has been influencing games from day one Brendan McCartney even mentioned as much in his press conferences "I was confident we'd win that contest because Libba was in there". He said this after the Collingwood win came down to an important moment IIRC. Also have a look at who's getting the ball out to Bonti in those situations more often than not.

And Hrovat almost always hits targets. The only game he didn't was the last against GWS.

 

[Dav1d]

And Hrovat almost always hits targets. The only game he didn't was the last against GWS.

I'm watching that now, we were horrible

our forward line seems real disorganized, hopefully that changes with the new forward coach

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I'm watching that now, we were horrible

our forward line seems real disorganized, hopefully that changes with the new forward coach

It will. I'm positive.

 

[Dav1d]

It will. I'm positive.

just noticed that GWS used Boyd in the ruck against Minson.....why

anyhow, every GWS match I've seen; I think we've done good for the picks we had compared to GWS

 

[Hrovat24]

Hrovat does not actually hit targets at this stage, a must for a potential A grader. However, not to say he won't.

Libba is close to a bone fide a grader, now the best player on our list.

This season coming up he can confirm this. Superstars don't just have the stats, they influence games. As good as Libba is, and I rate him very highly, I saw Bonti do this more last season.

Are you sure you are on the right board ? What hrovat and Libba are you talking about ? Wow you may need glasses champ

 

[womble54]

This is how I see the list so is there light or not ?

Mature players = Murphy Boyd Mino Morris Picken

A grade(guns)= Boyd Bonts Stringer Libba Mcrae

B grade = Wallis Dahl Crameri Wood JJ Hunter Darley

C grade = Grant Smith Roughead Stevens Campbell

Might make it = Roberts Honey Talia, Redpath, 2014 draftees

Won't make it = Hrovat Prudden Dickson Fuller Cordy Jong

So still nearly ten blokes on list IMO that are simply not up to it and never will be so still plenty work to be done but there is always light

And this list is where I think players will end their careers not where they are now

I've gone all the way back to page 1 and he's where I see the comparative future. Like the above post - my opinion only and it shows how different valuations/perceptions paint our clubs future very differently. Again - this is where I see players rated at the end of their careers

A Graders long term (5):

Boyd, Libba, Stringer, Macrae, Bontempelli

B Graders long term (12):

Wallis, Dahlhaus (B+), Crameri (B+) Hrovat, Hunter, Campbell, Stevens, Smith (inj. Permitting), Roughead (shoulders permitting), JJ, Wood, Crameri

C Graders long term (3):

Roberts, Talia, Honeychurch

List will go past or likely leave in future

Grant, Dickson

I'm ok with 17 good to very good afl quality players on the list. We definately need an A grade FB or CHB to develop or trade in and I would hope 1 or 2 of this years draft crop could hit solid B grade status.

 

[Gmod23]

just noticed that GWS used Boyd in the ruck against Minson.....why

anyhow, every GWS match I've seen; I think we've done good for the picks we had compared to GWS

except for that Cameron bloke, I think our early picks have turned out better.
Thank you to the fathers for giving us such great gifts for relatively cheap picks.

 

[Doggies7]

just noticed that GWS used Boyd in the ruck against Minson.....why

anyhow, every GWS match I've seen; I think we've done good for the picks we had compared to GWS

Yeah bulk him up, then use him in the ruck where he needs to be mobile, great idea GWS.

 

[lachy]

Are you sure you are on the right board ? What hrovat and Libba are you talking about ? Wow you may need glasses champ

No glasses needed here, watched the finals series and never seen them there. Maybe need to borrow your rose coloured ones they seem to work well.

If you bother reading my posts I am actually more bullish than most for next year, however I try not to over rate players merely because they wear red white and blue and I will call out any aspect of the club I disagree with.

Libba is one of the best players for vision and disposal I have seen in our colours. Love him as a player. However, until he does it when it counts in September I will not rate him a superstar as I beleive superstars are those who rise above all when it really counts. Unfortunately, he will need some mates to help him out with this one. You can rate players how you like in also ran teams, but last time I looked football is a team game.

Hrovat 'May' become an A grader, but you are seriously asking if I need glasses questioning his disposal????? Way to many kicks come up short or completely miss the target at this stage and yes I have watched a re watched a couple of the games he played this year, and as a football coach found this to be the most disappointing aspect of his game as he is technically quite proficient.

So whilst you may confuse me for the negative types on this board, you are clearly mistaken, but I will call it as I see it on all aspects of the club including players.

The mere fact they have made it to this level is awesome, but to be in the game with an opportunity to win flags is many levels above what a lot of supporters appear to rate as a grade

 

[lachy]

Disagree heavily on both counts. Libba has been influencing games from day one Brendan McCartney even mentioned as much in his press conferences "I was confident we'd win that contest because Libba was in there". He said this after the Collingwood win came down to an important moment IIRC. Also have a look at who's getting the ball out to Bonti in those situations more often than not.

And Hrovat almost always hits targets. The only game he didn't was the last against GWS.

Sorry immortalmike, influencing games wins games and unless I have been watching different games we have not won to many over the last 3 years. I beleive Libba is now our best player, vision best I have seen and a grader yes. Superstar, let's see him deliver deep in September when it is for real and will be happy to anoint him then.

As for Hrovat average 17.8 disposals a game 12.6 effective which means 30% ineffective. Also just over 3 disposals a quarter effective. He may prove me wrong and become an a grader but clearly has a long way to go

 

[TMoney22]

Daniel hasn't played a game ur right but he is tiny and I'm prepared to say of e didn't pick him up no one would have, that's my opinion and right or wrong I'll stand by it. For him to play he would have to go past Dahl and Hunter to make the team! YOU CANT PLAY 3 blokes that small in a contending team unless they are all ELITE

Where does Rough play now?

He isn't a ruckmans a$$hole
He can't play forward with Boyd he is mobile enough
He isn't a backman he is too slow

So where??

And I won't comment on Hrovat other than I'm amused I get abused because I don't think he will make it but others are happy to slap backs coz they think he will. Both sides are opinions and based on a small body of work so why are you arrogant enough to know you are right?? (Not u directly that is a generalisation on those who think that)

Roughy is a good talking point. I sort of agree, he can't be lining up at full back each week. There are too many FF who can beat him on the lead easily. But I think he does have a place in the back line. And its going to come down to tactics. Obviously the opposition resting ruck, but when there isn't a match up. We need to play him as the extra man cutting off high forward entries. I see this as his strength. And then as relief ruck which will enable us to play another proper forward and not putting minson or Campbell in the forward line just because they are tall.

A lot will depend on Roberts and Talia.

 

[immortalmike]

Sorry immortalmike, influencing games wins games and unless I have been watching different games we have not won to many over the last 3 years. I beleive Libba is now our best player, vision best I have seen and a grader yes. Superstar, let's see him deliver deep in September when it is for real and will be happy to anoint him then.

As for Hrovat average 17.8 disposals a game 12.6 effective which means 30% ineffective. Also just over 3 disposals a quarter effective. He may prove me wrong and become an a grader but clearly has a long way to go

By that criteria Griffen, Ablett, Reiwoldt, don't influence games. It's still a team sport one man can only do so much. Also if you remember my initial point was that he was already A grade, the superstar call was a use of creative license.

70% efficiency from a 2nd year player who's struggled at times with injury and played out of position. I'm happy with that. Also he has brilliant disposal at lower levels. Has all the tools to be A level injury permitting.

 

[Hrovat24]

No glasses needed here, watched the finals series and never seen them there. Maybe need to borrow your rose coloured ones they seem to work well.

If you bother reading my posts I am actually more bullish than most for next year, however I try not to over rate players merely because they wear red white and blue and I will call out any aspect of the club I disagree with.

Libba is one of the best players for vision and disposal I have seen in our colours. Love him as a player. However, until he does it when it counts in September I will not rate him a superstar as I beleive superstars are those who rise above all when it really counts. Unfortunately, he will need some mates to help him out with this one. You can rate players how you like in also ran teams, but last time I looked football is a team game.

Hrovat 'May' become an A grader, but you are seriously asking if I need glasses questioning his disposal????? Way to many kicks come up short or completely miss the target at this stage and yes I have watched a re watched a couple of the games he played this year, and as a football coach found this to be the most disappointing aspect of his game as he is technically quite proficient.

So whilst you may confuse me for the negative types on this board, you are clearly mistaken, but I will call it as I see it on all aspects of the club including players.

The mere fact they have made it to this level is awesome, but to be in the game with an opportunity to win flags is many levels above what a lot of supporters appear to rate as a grade

I don't mind the being negative part if your right , do you think nick riewolts a superstar ? He couldn't win his side a flag and I'm pretty sure 99 per cent on here would agree he is a star .. Libba has won games for us when it has been in the balance and being in a shit side is not his fault you could put gary ablett junior or side and he still wouldn't win us a flag does that mean he isn't a superstar ? With hrovat yes he does miss targets at times but have you seen his kicks or handballs in tight spaces that most others on our list wouldn't be able to hit ? Last of all out of curiosity what age group did you coach ?

 

[JJHunter]

I've gone all the way back to page 1 and he's where I see the comparative future. Like the above post - my opinion only and it shows how different valuations/perceptions paint our clubs future very differently. Again - this is where I see players rated at the end of their careers

A Graders long term (5):

Boyd, Libba, Stringer, Macrae, Bontempelli

B Graders long term (12):

Wallis, Dahlhaus (B+), Crameri (B+) Hrovat, Hunter, Campbell, Stevens, Smith (inj. Permitting), Roughead (shoulders permitting), JJ, Wood, Crameri

C Graders long term (3):

Roberts, Talia, Honeychurch

List will go past or likely leave in future

Grant, Dickson

I'm ok with 17 good to very good afl quality players on the list. We definately need an A grade FB or CHB to develop or trade in and I would hope 1 or 2 of this years draft crop could hit solid B grade status.

Good summary.

Imo
A-graders - players who may make an all Australian squad

B- graders - players who will be regular finishers in the clubs top 10 best and fairest

C-graders - role players who play most weeks but can drop outta the side every now and again

D/ graders - cusp players who will never cement a spot in the best 22

So based on all that id have a fair few of your bgraders as c graders. Stevens roughy Wallis hunter and the like.

 

[womble54]

Good summary.

Imo
A-graders - players who may make an all Australian squad

B- graders - players who will be regular finishers in the clubs top 10 best and fairest

C-graders - role players who play most weeks but can drop outta the side every now and again

D/ graders - cusp players who will never cement a spot in the best 22

So based on all that id have a fair few of your bgraders as c graders. Stevens roughy Wallis hunter and the like.

I can subscribe to that happily as well. I guess my rating of the "maybe B - maybe C" includes.

- Wallis: can I see him being as good as Cross or Boyd at 26? Probably for me and one is a cult hero and the other was our captain through hard times. If so he gets a B surely

- Stevens: I rate his marking at 50 and goal kicking higher than others. Totally different player but I think he can be around as good as Hahn was at 26 and I rated Hahn a good B.

- Hunter: IF, and it's important, he gets the showboating under control and accepts that there is only one Jake Stringer, I think again he is potentially Hahn quality (again totally different player).

- Smith I just love - skilful, committed, hard as a tonka truck but I greatly fear he goes the way of Tommy Williams if things don't turn for him.

We'll know in 5-6 years and that's the fun thing about footy.

 

[womble54]

By that criteria Griffen, Ablett, Reiwoldt, don't influence games. It's still a team sport one man can only do so much.

Unless that man is Bontempelli who can fight grizzly bears with his magical fire breath, travel to the world 3010 to beat up the evil robot king, take on the Kublai Khan and doesn't take shit from ....annnyybooooddyyy!

 

[igloo dweller]

Good summary.

Imo
A-graders - players who may make an all Australian squad

B- graders - players who will be regular finishers in the clubs top 10 best and fairest

C-graders - role players who play most weeks but can drop outta the side every now and again

D/ graders - cusp players who will never cement a spot in the best 22

So based on all that id have a fair few of your bgraders as c graders. Stevens roughy Wallis hunter and the like.

wallis has consecutive top 10 B&F placings in past two years (and played a total of 31 games).
by your own criteria he's a B grader

 

[maddog37]

No glasses needed here, watched the finals series and never seen them there. Maybe need to borrow your rose coloured ones they seem to work well.

If you bother reading my posts I am actually more bullish than most for next year, however I try not to over rate players merely because they wear red white and blue and I will call out any aspect of the club I disagree with.

Libba is one of the best players for vision and disposal I have seen in our colours. Love him as a player. However, until he does it when it counts in September I will not rate him a superstar as I beleive superstars are those who rise above all when it really counts. Unfortunately, he will need some mates to help him out with this one. You can rate players how you like in also ran teams, but last time I looked football is a team game.

Hrovat 'May' become an A grader, but you are seriously asking if I need glasses questioning his disposal????? Way to many kicks come up short or completely miss the target at this stage and yes I have watched a re watched a couple of the games he played this year, and as a football coach found this to be the most disappointing aspect of his game as he is technically quite proficient.

So whilst you may confuse me for the negative types on this board, you are clearly mistaken, but I will call it as I see it on all aspects of the club including players.

The mere fact they have made it to this level is awesome, but to be in the game with an opportunity to win flags is many levels above what a lot of supporters appear to rate as a grade

Robbie Flower and Bob Skilton were clearly duds then.

 

[JJHunter]

wallis has consecutive top 10 B&F placings in past two years (and played a total of 31 games).
by your own criteria he's a B grader

We are talking across the next 5-8 years when we have the likes of stringer, macrae, bonti and co coming through.
I am hoping we add more depth in upcoming drafts - Im expecting two top 4 picks in next two years to add to our side.
If he is going to be in our best 10 players I fear for the next five years. Just my opinion.

 

[dogwatch]

Good summary.

Imo
A-graders - players who may make an all Australian squad

B- graders - players who will be regular finishers in the clubs top 10 best and fairest

C-graders - role players who play most weeks but can drop outta the side every now and again

D/ graders - cusp players who will never cement a spot in the best 22

So based on all that id have a fair few of your bgraders as c graders. Stevens roughy Wallis hunter and the like.

Not a bad classification system. Doesn't take the subjectivity out of it of course, but at least we are all on the same page.

I suggest a further codification should be to classify them on (a) exposed AFL form (with heaviest emphasis on the season just passed where possible) and (b) the player's ceiling - i.e. what we think he is likely to reach. Clearly players like Bontempelli and Stringer are potential A graders but on exposed form they are B-C graders.

NB: There's no point classifying players on exposed form if it was years ago and they can't reproduce it. A good example is Cooney who was an A grader in 2008 but has been mostly a B grader since injuring his knee.