Is our side to Tall?

[Captain Groenewegen Snr]

So im not normally one to get in depth on here as its not really my posting style but i thought id bring up a topic i feel needs to be brought up.

Ok now i know some of these guys can play a running type role but for mine we look a bit top heavy. The funny thing is that i still think all these players should be in the side but have a look at how much height we have in the side

Backs

Lake 195
Williams 196
Everitt 193
Morris 190
Hargrave 190

Now out of these guys 3 of them (Everitt Morris Hargrave) can all play a running role but they do not add to the midfield rotation in any true sense and in modern day football you need to have 14 or so guys being moved through there in my view.

In the forward line we have

Hall 196
Grant 192
Roughead 200
Hahn 188

Now Mitch may not be your classic height for a KPP but the way the club has bulked him up in the last 3 years has shown that the KPP role is there for him. Roughead as a resting ruckman is adding into the mix

Rucks

Hudson 199
Roughead 200

----------------

These are the talls that are in the side atm. Now you look at our VFL side and you find these guys in Willy 1st

Backs
Bouman 196
Markovic 193
Mulligan 200cm

Forwards

Panos 192
Jones 195

Rucks

Cordy 202
Minson 199


Now this is with out bringing up S Tiller who is coming back from injury who would normally be in at least Willys best 22. So thats 10/22 in our best side as well as 7/23 (23 picked at vfl level each week) for Williamstown. This is with out bringing up the small backs/forwards who do not add into our mid field.

I believe that this is why we are not running out games like we use to. One of our core strengths use to be our running and i think we have falling away a bit of late. Our drafting has targeted talls, this is clear but have we gone to far?

Was Markovic really needed if we did not intend to push Everitt forward like most of us expected? Is it a case of the club seeing a weakness and over doing it?

I believe a well balance side has 2 tall backs with one Morris type, 2 talls forwards and one Hahn type but you have to play the best side you have so atm that is leading us to playing 3 key defenders as well as Morris and Hargrave. Sorry for being so long winded i promise to not do it again.

 

[chef]

No..

 

[maddog37]

Maybe......

 

[gsxr03]

IMO no as many of these guys have great skills at their feet also.

 

[Captain Groenewegen Snr]

Wow i remember why i dont bother writting up analysis of any kind on here

 

[Captain Groenewegen Snr]

IMO no as many of these guys have great skills at their feet also.

So you believe this is more a trend of the game that is coming into place? The thing is no matter how good there skills are they will not be a real part of the rotation in the middle and i believe we are a few players short in this area with the way the game is being played.

We have run out of legs 3 weeks in a row now.

 

[inflames1919]

Last year we were too small.
Now, not even a year later we are too tall?
Please.

 

[Captain Groenewegen Snr]

Last year we did not have Everitt Williams Hall and Grant in our side (even if you take away Grant we are still very tall) and our list is also very top heavy and has been for the last few years.

Someone please explain why we are struggling in the 4th qrt if it is not due to our lack of run.

 

[gsxr03]

So you believe this is more a trend of the game that is coming into place? The thing is no matter how good there skills are they will not be a real part of the rotation in the middle and i believe we are a few players short in this area with the way the game is being played.

We have run out of legs 3 weeks in a row now.

I do think we have enough guys to run through the midfield though and some good attacking small/mid size defenders. Looking to pickup the 2 father sons this year should also make sure we are covered going forward.

 

[Captain Groenewegen Snr]

Well thats another thing i think the club has had in mind with there drafting that the father sons boys are the types that will be almost ready for senior footy as soon as they come to the club but if you look through our list you will notice how we have a much biggerr % of under 23 yr old talls then other clubs i guess on the hope that maybe one of them will come good.

For example no matter what Bouman does this year at VFL how can there ever be a spot for him in our side? Markovic and Tiller are in the same spot as well. I feel that we ran scared over not having talls and have gone to far the other way now.

We play a backline with one small attacking defender in Harbrow now that Gilbee is being pushed more up the ground, the other 5 backman are all Talls who at times can make very basic skill errors.

 

[gsxr03]

I can agree with you on that, with our lack of talls we may have recrucited a bit heavy in the attempt to pickup some key position players. Lets hope a couple of these guys come through, but i do think its easier to go the other way an recruit a mid.

 

[SPower]

Someone please explain why we are struggling in the 4th qrt if it is not due to our lack of run.[/quote]

Love your work Captain, Don't worry about the length of your postings.

My theory on running out games is that the Hawkers was a brutal , tough affair, and they did not have a long break which hurt us in the next week.

What we don't know is whether we have given them extra tough work, loading up on the track.

What happened last year is that that loaded up as far as I know in the last 4/5 weeks prior to finals maybe they . May be they had a few weeks of extra fitness conditioning over the past few weeks.

Just my thoughts on the not running out games.

The issue of talls, there is no doubt talls are needed to win a flag which we now have and agreed that this is a very tall list.

I also believe we do have sufficient pace in the side, with the players we have but you are correct it is a talented list of talls which we have not
been accustomed to.
Also it is far easier to top up the talented mid field plus the quick running backs and forwards. Time will tell with Howard and Tutt yet to play plus we have Junior Libba and Wallis coming next year.

Cheers

Steven

 

[Captain Groenewegen Snr]

Well i guess thats the plus side that Everitt and Hargrave do give us some run, i do find it funny that with 5 talls in our backline you still see Morris at times on the really big KPF.

You have a look through our list atm and with the players we have out we only have one true midfielder to come in (Wood) and a few guys who can push through the midfield at times (Rose and Hill) If we were to get hit by a few more injuries anytime soon i can see us getting into a bit of trouble.

The plus side is that you can fnd midfield gems a lot easier then tall ones, I guess we will sit back and watch and see if we have made the right moves but just in my simple mind we seem to be lacking midfield depth in our side that is slowing us down later in the games (please bare in mind that having small players does not = midfield depth)

Its almost back to the bay time for me

 

[maddog37]

Captain, please stop making so much sense. It is freaking me out!!!

 

[Captain Groenewegen Snr]

Shhh im not really a doggies fan and just trying to troll the club

As i said its not often i feel the urge to actually post about football anymore but its something i thought was worth putting out there to the others. Who knows if people actually give it a bit of thought and respond with a bit of thought i may even do it more often

 

[Ant_]

Shhh im not really a doggies fan and just trying to troll the club

As i said its not often i feel the urge to actually post about football anymore but its something i thought was worth putting out there to the others. Who knows if people actually give it a bit of thought and respond with a bit of thought i may even do it more often

Keep it up appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Snake Livermore]

Yeah, we are definitely a lot taller than we used to be, and for something that was always perceived to be a negative for us, it would be easy to swing too far the other way.

However, I think the tall-ness of our list has a bit to do with our current injuries. Add Cal Ward, Liam Picken and Matthew Boyd to our team on Friday night, and you would definitely lose at least one, probably two of those tall blokes, and then we're back to being very balanced. I think after setting up a basic spine, Eade picks the best 22 players he's got at his disposal, tall or small, and this week it happened to be tall.

As for running out the games, well, we had a shit second half against Brisbane, but that wasn't fitness, that was just playing terribly and weak efforts. We overran the Hawks in the last quarter, kept dominating the tigers in the last quarter, and we were getting beaten all day against Collingwood, so I don't think you can blame a last quarter fade out there either. And then on Friday night, Rocket specifically told the boys to put the cue in the rack at 3/4 time, so that one was on coaches orders.

So no, I don't think having tall players is causing us to run out games badly. But are they causing our shit starts???? I'd love to find out what is...

 

[Fossie 32]

There's also Sam Reid and Liam Picken to come back. Of the developing players I think there are a reasonable mix of sizes.
I don't think generally the current team are too tall apart from when Willy was not playing well and on the ground at the same time as Huddo. I guess if the tall players are having an impact you're laughing.
Against Bris Crossy was sore in the second half and don't know when Boydy hurt his hand?

 

[Mr. Walker]

I agree that we are too tall. A blessing in having Hargrave pull out of Friday nights side was that we ended up with a better balance of talls and runners with the inclusion of Moles (who was prepared to run past to receive handballs etc) and made the side look quicker.

I think we have over reacted in recent years to our lack of talls and got the drafting balance wrong.

 

[Fossie 32]

I agree that we are too tall. A blessing in having Hargrave pull out of Friday nights side was that we ended up with a better balance of talls and runners with the inclusion of Moles (who was prepared to run past to receive handballs etc) and made the side look quicker.

I think we have over reacted in recent years to our lack of talls and got the drafting balance wrong.

That would be true given that we went from having Shaggy out of form last week to having Moles who was good this week but also not so good last week and being dropped - so had he continued in poor form it wouldn't have been a case of improving by replacing a tall with a medium size player. It depends on whether the talls are doing good or not. Mind you great to see Brodie doing well.

 

[Captain Groenewegen Snr]

I agree that we are too tall. A blessing in having Hargrave pull out of Friday nights side was that we ended up with a better balance of talls and runners with the inclusion of Moles (who was prepared to run past to receive handballs etc) and made the side look quicker.

I think we have over reacted in recent years to our lack of talls and got the drafting balance wrong.

I agree 100% that had Hargrave played our structure would have been totally out of wack. I wonder if they will bring him right back in and if so who for?

 

[always right]

You have a look through our list atm and with the players we have out we only have one true midfielder to come in (Wood) and a few guys who can push through the midfield at times (Rose and Hill) If we were to get hit by a few more injuries anytime soon i can see us getting into a bit of trouble.

Picken, Reid, Ward, Boyd

 

[Captain Groenewegen Snr]

Picken, Reid, Ward, Boyd

Picken is out for 6 more weeks, Reid has a month of footy to go before been any where near fit, Ward has OP and Boyd will be back this week. We have replaced these players (not including Reid who is not in our best side) with Talls because we do not have the back up to cover midfield loses.

Our Tall depth atm far out weighs our midfield depth and in a game that is controlled by midfielders this is a in correct balance in my view. Not to mention the lack of crumbling players (i guess we tried to fix that in our last draft)

Its interesting how a few years of trying to fix a area has lead us to over doing it hoping that if we draft a heap of talls then maybe 1 or 2 will come good.

 

[always right]

Picken is out for 6 more weeks, Reid has a month of footy to go before been any where near fit, Ward has OP and Boyd will be back this week. We have replaced these players (not including Reid who is not in our best side) with Talls because we do not have the back up to cover midfield loses.

Our Tall depth atm far out weighs our midfield depth and in a game that is controlled by midfielders this is a in correct balance in my view. Not to mention the lack of crumbling players (i guess we tried to fix that in our last draft)

Its interesting how a few years of trying to fix a area has lead us to over doing it hoping that if we draft a heap of talls then maybe 1 or 2 will come good.

Fair enough...didn't realise you were talking short term only.

 

[Captain Groenewegen Snr]

How am i only talking short term? You bring up only 4 names with 3 of them in what is normally our best side. We currently have 10 talls in the side compared to the normal 7-8 per side. Even once these players come back into the side our mid field depth will be lacking.

What happens if Cross Griffen and Gia go down when these 3 come back and so on? You will always have 3-6 players out at any giving time so its important to have 30-33 players ready to step up at any giving time. For us almost half of those are Talls.

That is why i believe we are to top heavy as of right now. Maybe next season we will target more the running types to go along side libba and wallis. Im sure a lot of sides will giving the success of Silvangni and Barlow among others. As ive said its not often i talk about structures and such esp in the last few years so maybe im out of touch with what is needed in modern day football.