Is Tasmanian football dead?

[Tim_in_Philly]

Many of us on here grew up when Tasmanian football was strong, the rivalries were great and the local people cared. Now the AFL has steamrolled local football with non-stop TV coverage. The local league is an embarrassment, "crowds" are non-existent and media coverage negligible.

So, is this an inevitable and irreversible decline that will see football in Tasmania in the future consist solely of TV watching and an occasional live AFL game? Or is there a formula that could revive the local scene enough to re-awaken interest?

If Andrew Demetriou appointed you to "fix" Tasmanian football, what would you do?

 

[Covertackle]

are kids playing other sports instead?

or are the better kids getting poached by mainland rep structure?

this has happened in to in NSW and QLD counry areas. good kids (16-18) are brought to the cities (syd, newcastle) to play in development sides. what that does is weaken the country competitions, and as a result the local games get less people through the gates as there are no 'stars' to watch anymore.

years ago it wasnt uncommon for an australian player to be playing country rugby league. now they are all poached and developed in the city..

the same thing is probably happening in the tassie comps.

 

[gotassieboys]

Unfortunately the world's sporting landscape has dramatically changed over the last 10-20 years with a saturation of top sport on free to air and cable TV.

There is no better example than the poor crowds that attend Shield cricket, which is by all accounts is the best domestic competition in the world.

If it does not provide a gimmick or the top level players/games, people will not watch.

Victoria has the VFL competition which has a large number of AFL listed players which obviously lifts the standard of the competition.

The same is also true for other states which have AFL sides. Unfortunately we do not have an AFL and so we suffer.

The State games either need to be an U/23 competition (for yonger guys to get drafted), or pick the in form players regardless of age.

The end result of "TAS v VIC" was a major reflection of the age/experience of the Victorian side. Lets all play on an even field.

We need an AFL team based permanently in Tasmania which would be unlikely to happen in the next 5-10 years.

Secondly we need to hit the AFL immediately for money to fund the Mariners to play full time in the TAC U/18 competition.

If we are not pro-active in pushing our agenda then we risk sliding further down the ladder in football relevance.

 

[Miffy99]

Unfortunately the world's sporting landscape has dramatically changed over the last 10-20 years with a saturation of top sport on free to air and cable TV.

There is no better example than the poor crowds that attend Shield cricket, which is by all accounts is the best domestic competition in the world.

If it does not provide a gimmick or the top level players/games, people will not watch.

Victoria has the VFL competition which has a large number of AFL listed players which obviously lifts the standard of the competition.

The same is also true for other states which have AFL sides. Unfortunately we do not have an AFL and so we

The State games either need to be an U/23 competition (for yonger guys to get drafted), or pick the in form players regardless of age.

The end result of "TAS v VIC" was a major reflection of the age/experience of the Victorian side. Lets all play on an even field.

We need an AFL team based permanently in Tasmania which would be unlikely to happen in the next 5-10 years.

Secondly we need to hit the AFL immediately for money to fund the Mariners to play full time in the TAC U/18 competition.

If we are not pro-active in pushing our agenda then we risk sliding further down the ladder in football relevance.

Well said!! I totally agree. If only AFL tas could see things the way that most Tasmanians see it then we would be heading in the right direction. Unfortunatley they dont..and footy in tas is going backwards at a rate of knots. Very sad.

 

[DuffTv]

Return clubs to the SFL/NTFL & play regional football but with a fair dinkum State Grand final which sees the players get paid to play.

Pop the Mariners in the TAC cup full-time OR bring back the Devils but make them based in Hobart just like the cricket.

In the South the Premier League was fine except for Brighton. Make it a 7 team comp and have the bye which give everyone a few weeks off throughout the year.

The better players will always get drafted and if you are a mature age player with promise show some courage and move to the SANFL or VFL and give it a crack.

It's not rocket science.

 

[pirateboy]

well said mate...

thinking that, simply the talent is better, the money is bigger, thepool of players is bigger and hence, the desire is bigger. The talent down here isn't that great, being totally honest.. Im sure there would be vic country leagues that would be better than our states whole league.

"The end result of "TAS v VIC" was a major reflection of the age/experience of the Victorian side. Lets all play on an even field."


The comment above, however, is not true. VFL's average age on the weekend= 23.3. TSL average age on weekend= 22.5.

Not a great deal difference. Experience was a winning statement though.

 

[pirateboy]

Also,

Be interesting to see who in the state league is from interstate??

Maybe we could get a list going?

Who isn't returning from AFL, travel or studying in TAS. How many come down to just play?

 

[Gibbke]

...bring back the Devils but make them based in Hobart just like the cricket....

Absolutely not. That was one of the reasons it died in the first place. The very second that Northerners got wind of Southern bias was the same one where they dropped the team like a hot spud...it worked in the first few years when there was an even balance, and the initial reason it became Southern-centric was because of Southern politicians agitating for a shift and telling everyone it was only fair because the Hawks played at YP...the Devils announcing they would play an intra-club practice match at Scottsdale to promote the team to the North of the state in 2008 was the most severely patronising act within Tasmanian footy in recent memory...

Footy and cricket share few similarities. In cricket, it doesn't matter one iota who shows up through the gate or follows the team, because the income for all national top level cricket comes from CA. That's why they have T20's, and why they don't even bother with state based names for the domestic cash cow. The entire reason for state cricket is supporting the national team, so it all makes sense that things are rationalised and it ends up in the one home base.

Footy needs the patronage and crowd support (I would dare say we don't want the team's expressed purpose to be just an AFL feeder), and therefore can't alienate its potential fans - in this state, you do that by planting the seeds of parochialism, and both regions are as bad as each other in their histories of this. You split the games evenly, and you don't grizzle when Northern crowds average 5000 and Hobart 6000, which were the numbers when the southern push began around 2003 (remember me? I'm the guy who built the Devils stats site). You can make all sorts of arguments and grandstanding statements using the words "capital", "rationalisation", "centralisation", etc, but at the end of the day, when half of the state answers them with the words "get f!!!" after disenfranchisement, you know you don't have the full support of the public that you could have...

 

[MooseOnTheLoose]

There is an old thread on here somewhere where Kingpin discussed the decline of the old State league. I think it traces back to the early 90's, although had probably started before that. You had the recession that came in, the start of all day trading on Saturdays (this took away crowds, and players - particularly underage), school footy stopped, the Mariners were introduced and of course some of the clubs had been spending more than they were earning. And all this around the time the AFL was expanding and taking over all media coverage.

Impossible to go back and fix any of that now of course.

If we want to have the best standard of footy we can in Tassie then it would seem that you need to get the best players playing in the top league and make that league as professional and competitive as possible. Note we're not talking about producing players for the AFL here but of the best standard league in Tassie. Now if the standard improves substantially then getting players drafted will be a natural by-product.

I don't have a solution for getting the best players playing. But having TV coverage, having a higher salary cap and reducing the number of teams (and hence filtering out those either not yet ready or not good enough) would be a start. Removing age restrictions and having proper/better relationships between TSL clubs and feeder teams would also help (and the clubs are largely to blame for this one). When there are guys getting paid two or three (and probably more) times more to play in lower level competitions then you will never get the best players in the top competition and you will inevitably never have the highest standard.

It's all a bit chicken and egg, but you improve the standard, you hopefully get more interest. More interest leads to increases in crowd numbers and more media coverage (just look at some of the early games last year when there were crowds over 2000 to 4 or more games). This leads to more revenue and also potential sponsorship streams. More money means a higher salary cap so you get better players. Better players means a higher standard and so on. So AFLTas and the clubs need to do something that kick starts that cycle in an upwards direction rather than the continual downward spiral it's been on seemingly forever.

 

[hardnut69]

There is an old thread on here somewhere where Kingpin discussed the decline of the old State league. I think it traces back to the early 90's, although had probably started before that. You had the recession that came in, the start of all day trading on Saturdays (this took away crowds, and players - particularly underage), school footy stopped, the Mariners were introduced and of course some of the clubs had been spending more than they were earning. And all this around the time the AFL was expanding and taking over all media coverage.

Impossible to go back and fix any of that now of course.

If we want to have the best standard of footy we can in Tassie then it would seem that you need to get the best players playing in the top league and make that league as professional and competitive as possible. Note we're not talking about producing players for the AFL here but of the best standard league in Tassie. Now if the standard improves substantially then getting players drafted will be a natural by-product.

I don't have a solution for getting the best players playing. But having TV coverage, having a higher salary cap and reducing the number of teams (and hence filtering out those either not yet ready or not good enough) would be a start. Removing age restrictions and having proper/better relationships between TSL clubs and feeder teams would also help (and the clubs are largely to blame for this one). When there are guys getting paid two or three (and probably more) times more to play in lower level competitions then you will never get the best players in the top competition and you will inevitably never have the highest standard.

It's all a bit chicken and egg, but you improve the standard, you hopefully get more interest. More interest leads to increases in crowd numbers and more media coverage (just look at some of the early games last year when there were crowds over 2000 to 4 or more games). This leads to more revenue and also potential sponsorship streams. More money means a higher salary cap so you get better players. Better players means a higher standard and so on. So AFLTas and the clubs need to do something that kick starts that cycle in an upwards direction rather than the continual downward spiral it's been on seemingly forever.

I dont understand why bringing the Mariners in full time will improve the standard??? Wont this just cost more money and take away from putting money into areas that need it?? ITs the same with the devils!

In Qld they pump the money into the state league clubs and have the better coaches. If your good enough to be drafted you will be playing seniors anyway. The u/18's go down to Melbourne once or twice a year before the carnival. I guess this brings back to we need more money being pumped into Tas footy and if it does the money shouldnt be pissed up against the wall by afltas

 

[madmug]

Many of us on here grew up when Tasmanian football was strong, the rivalries were great and the local people cared. Now the AFL has steamrolled local football with non-stop TV coverage. The local league is an embarrassment, "crowds" are non-existent and media coverage negligible.

So, is this an inevitable and irreversible decline that will see football in Tasmania in the future consist solely of TV watching and an occasional live AFL game? Or is there a formula that could revive the local scene enough to re-awaken interest?

If Andrew Demetriou appointed you to "fix" Tasmanian football, what would you do?

AD has already appointed who he wants to 'fix' football. And 'fix' it they have. Its just about terminal. The TSL has been turned into yet another 'development' pathway.
Trouble is by getting rid of many experienced players, the standard has become so poor, even the best young players are told to leave Tassie & play in the VFL of the NEAFL etc to get noticed by AFL recruiters.
The only clubs who can recruit are those clubs who get 'a bit extra' from Argyle st. They at least can get a few players back from the mainland.
It wont go anywhere unless we get our own AFL team based in Tasmania which will make a TSL relevant as a seconds competition. This applies to all the other state leagues, except ours. It also needs people involved who actually care about the game itself, & not just about what they get out of it.
Right now we are just ripped apart by mainland leagues. That wont change with the current mentality being applied to Tassie Footy.
Being told they dont care about crowds, or about the State team getting belted says it all.

 

[The_Reaper]

AD has already appointed who he wants to 'fix' football. And 'fix' it they have. Its just about terminal. The TSL has been turned into yet another 'development' pathway.
Trouble is by getting rid of many experienced players, the standard has become so poor, even the best young players are told to leave Tassie & play in the VFL of the NEAFL etc to get noticed by AFL recruiters.
The only clubs who can recruit are those clubs who get 'a bit extra' from Argyle st. They at least can get a few players back from the mainland.
It wont go anywhere unless we get our own AFL team based in Tasmania which will make a TSL relevant as a seconds competition. This applies to all the other state leagues, except ours. It also needs people involved who actually care about the game itself, & not just about what they get out of it.
Right now we are just ripped apart by mainland leagues. That wont change with the current mentality being applied to Tassie Footy.
Being told they dont care about crowds, or about the State team getting belted says it all.

AD wants to turn every state league into nothing more then AFL development leagues.

Tasmania is just unlucky that it doesn't have the same bargaining strength as the WAFL and SANFL.

 

[Tazwegian]

Focus on cricket and soccer. AD and the AFL have screwed us big time. If the A-League had even half a brain cell between them, they would be cashing in on Tassie United. They could fill the void left by the AFL and Tassie could become a leading state in producing gifted soccer players just like we are with cricket at the moment.

 

[Pale]

I agree with most things being said here however going back to regional football is not the answer,just wish AFL Tas could get their act together & listen to the average punter.I get annoyed about comments about the standard in that whilst it is not as good as the old Statewide in its heyday it is certainly a lot higher than the previous SFL & NTFL.make no mistake about that.

 

[madmug]

I agree with most things being said here however going back to regional football is not the answer,just wish AFL Tas could get their act together & listen to the average punter.I get annoyed about comments about the standard in that whilst it is not as good as the old Statewide in its heyday it is certainly a lot higher than the previous SFL & NTFL.make no mistake about that.

I couldnt agree more.
Looking at where Tassie footy has been in the past, I get very depressed when I look at the sorry state its in at the moment.
I'm getting to the stage that AFL Tas are at the moment. I dont care anymore.
AFL Tas dont care, why should anyone else. The public obviously dont either. Next thing, the sponsors wont care either, then maybe they will get the message

 

[Still Kickin]

I agree with most things being said here however going back to regional football is not the answer,just wish AFL Tas could get their act together & listen to the average punter.I get annoyed about comments about the standard in that whilst it is not as good as the old Statewide in its heyday it is certainly a lot higher than the previous SFL & NTFL.make no mistake about that.

I agree, the gap between both is a big difference and i will argue with anyone that says it's not. The problem the TSL faces is regional comps will continue to attract players with money. You can't keep paying a guy between 50-100 bucks at SWL level and expect them to stay year after year. Eventually the carrot of 150 + with less commitment will be taken. Until players can be given a minimum of 15 across the board, the comp will stay as it is. To have the best players playing in the best league there has to be incentive financially so we can get better and compete across the other states.

Bring back the devils and making the mariners full time is not the answer. Although the Devils was a fantastic concept on it's own, SWL cannot work with it or a full time mariners program. All the best players in the other states are playing senior footy or in Vic playing tac cup. We need the best kids playing week in week out in our comp, this will make it stronger. Not seeing these kids for the whole of pre-season and a fair few games leading up to the championships is not the way to go. Just my opinion.

I think the clubs are run a lot better these days financially with the guidelines put in place. Obviously clubs were run into the ground in the previous SWL which was a major contributor to it going bust. More funding into the top league will get the best players in the state playing, and will also attract players from interstate, and coach's for that matter. Until then, i think it will get weaker. As players will get sick of travelling, sick of all the training when they could go play with Channel, Claremont or who ever and get ok money with 80% less output.

 

[daveyh]

A wonderful discussion,full of great insights BUT if I may add a couple of my own to help it continue.
How many young people do we see kicking a footie in the street or on a local oval as compared to 25 years ago and why the difference???
Secondly,25 years ago Tassie footy and all the various leagues and associations were run and managed by people with a genuine love and knowledge of the game,for very little or nil compensation.
A.F.L/AD,say that footie is a business UNTRUE it is a game,entertainment,healthy excercise,a passion for some,social interaction for others
If I am wrong and it is a business a review of the Tasmanian branch and its management is long overdue,a salary cap for A.F.L Tas needed immediately!!!!!

 

[madmug]

All good points men.
If we/they really do want a decent TSL then at least fund it fairly & properly.
Right now its clear that some clubs get extra funding, they are the ones who recruit more than others!! The most successful club that doesnt get the 'special' help is Launceston. They obviously do it right somehow.
Overall it does get down to money.
The state coach tells the player to work harder. NO its about working smarter. The only way to do that is for clubs to pay for qualified fitness coaches & to make it more worthwhile to put the time into being a better player. Via an even & fair salary cap.
Its clear who gets extra money & look at who they recruit. Thats plain wrong. The only club IMO that needs 'extra' help is probably Devonport.
Also AFL Tas shouldnt be in the media stabbing Hobart FC in the back. Thats what the AFL did to Fitzroy & its plain wrong. It makes them look ruthless & gets them off side with the public, not a good look.
IMO the TSL should only be 8 teams. Then help fund them & the players to acheive a half decent standard.
At least then with a higher standard week in & week out, we might help develop better players, some of whom may either get drafted, or feel its worth staying & playing in Tasmania.
Right now I think most of the AFL aspirants would want to go to the VFL or Queensland.
If they dont change that attitude then we really do have a problem 'Houston' (Apollo 13, remember!)

 

[Pale]

Launceston do get some special help.
The only clubs that do not get some special help are North Launceston,Glenorchy,North Hobart & Hobart.

 

[DuffTv]

8 team comp. FULL STOP

 

[Tazwegian]

8 team comp. FULL STOP

Agreed, to be honest. Who are we cutting?

 

[pirateboy]

Launceston do get some special help.
The only clubs that do not get some special help are North Launceston,Glenorchy,North Hobart & Hobart.

I think all teams get support, some get more= Glenorchy spent alot of 'special' funds last year to get acka!!

I say, don't bring any hobart club when this new contract comes in and let the merge or Hobart drop out happen. I suppose a Launnie team has to in the north... The last two years I would've said south but not too sure...

Is 8 teams the answer?

Promote the quality with quality players playing state games for a start

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

I think too many teams were invited in at the beginning; personally I think six would have been ideal number from a player standard and finance point of view; but cutting clubs now would just repeat the late 1990s all over again. The league needs stability, and the default position should be to keep all the current clubs.
There is no doubt a higher salary cap is required. Far too many players don't play in the top league. That has been a problem even in the first state league, and worse on the north-west than elsewhere. The question is how many clubs can afford an increased cap? And if they can't how much does AFL Tas to give the clubs without impacting their other duties?
The focus on measuring success through "AFL draftees" is another problem again. And possibly counter-productive, in that it could be detracting from the strength of the game within the state, meaning the potetnail draftees aren'tprogessing as they should.
I'm a firm believer that a state league is required, and that making is strong should be a high priority. The Devils were a failure, in my view meaning that there was nothing above country level football for all bar one team.
Not having a state league set things back a long way, especialy in the south where people who had previously been able to support both Clarence and Lindisfarne (for example) suddenly had to choose between the two.

 

[DuffTv]

8 teams

8 teams is the only way to go. Even in the so called glory days there were players getting a game that wern't up to it.

It would make it a boutique comp & be much more attractive for all involved be it players, sponsors and spectators (including the cameraman lol)

How on earth can players improve when you come up against a team or an opponant that are simply not up to it. The call is for the player "to get better" isn't it?

I look at a bloke like Cox from Clarence and can't help but think in a better league this guys footy would shine. The comfort zone that is TSL at the moment does nothing for a player like him. He's probably showing 75% of his ability and all the training and one off state games can't replace 18 rounds of more competitive footy.

If you were to do a survey I think you would find that's what people would want, an 8 team TSL competition, with real funding and a real roster that sees teams play at both ends of the state.

Do it properly or don't do it at all.

 

[madmug]

I think too many teams were invited in at the beginning; personally I think six would have been ideal number from a player standard and finance point of view; but cutting clubs now would just repeat the late 1990s all over again. The league needs stability, and the default position should be to keep all the current clubs.
There is no doubt a higher salary cap is required. Far too many players don't play in the top league. That has been a problem even in the first state league, and worse on the north-west than elsewhere. The question is how many clubs can afford an increased cap? And if they can't how much does AFL Tas to give the clubs without impacting their other duties?
The focus on measuring success through "AFL draftees" is another problem again. And possibly counter-productive, in that it could be detracting from the strength of the game within the state, meaning the potetnail draftees aren'tprogessing as they should.
I'm a firm believer that a state league is required, and that making is strong should be a high priority. The Devils were a failure, in my view meaning that there was nothing above country level football for all bar one team.
Not having a state league set things back a long way, especialy in the south where people who had previously been able to support both Clarence and Lindisfarne (for example) suddenly had to choose between the two.

The query about whether the clubs can afford an increase in the salary cap is an interesting one. On their own, I reckon few clubs could afford to pay very much more than the basic $80k
I think if we look at the club positions on the ladder & which clubs have recruited well in the last couple of years or who have a larger number of quality ex Devils or AFL players, you can see who got 'special' AFL Tas assistance, & just what (or who)they spent it on! .
Spending the money to buy players off other clubs does NOT help the TSL, nor does it help with junior development in certain regions. Its just an ego trip for some clubs.
A fair distribution & having qualified fitness people & the odd interstate player at each club would help the public standing of the league. IMO.
Discuss.