Is tripping legal now?

[Outback Footy]

Two games in a row a Bulldogs forward has been legged in the goal square, literally held onto by one leg so that he physically cant kick the ball. And no free in either case). Ive never seen this before, havent watched many other games over the last couple weeks but havent seen this legging tactic until the last 2 weeks. Is it happening in games I havent been watching?

Last week Mitch Hannan had a goal stolen from him (ball in hand facing an empty goal when opposition grabs his leg, cant kick oppo support arrives, rushed point) with no penalty, it didnt change the outcome of the game thankfully, but last nights legging of Astro by Allir might just have done that. Astro was in the goal square, ball in hand, legged by Allir who was on the ground, rushed through for a point. With us 10 points down and 5-8 mins left in the game. From the kick in Port scored, 12 point turnaround and game changing.

In both cases the dogs players held their foot and didnt go down, maybe they should start diving to show the umps whats going on?

Hopefully Bevo said something, I was too gutted to watch the presser.

And for any Port fan who might be whingeing about umpiring last night, geez your players played dumb, holding dogs players all night. Gave away soooo many free kicks. Which were all legit there. Maybe it was tactic to defeat our height (and I never thought Id say that )

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

We were lucky and got away with that one. I think Aliir certainly slipped a bit low and many times that would be called.

In saying that, the amount of holds the Dogs defenders got away with on our forwards which were called the other way and holding the balls ignored when Dogs dropped the ball or Lycetts ridiculous dangerous tackle which lead to a goal, I think we deserved a lucky one.

 

[BF Tiger]

If the player doesn’t go down then I’m not sure it is a trip. So then it comes down to where on the body a legal tackle can be applied i.e. can a legal tackle be applied around the lower leg?

Probably does need some clarity from the AFL, or, as you suggest, the tackled player to go to ground.

 

[Outback Footy]

If the player doesn’t go down then I’m not sure it is a trip. So then it comes down to where on the body a legal tackle can be applied i.e. can a legal tackle be applied around the lower leg?

Probably does need some clarity from the AFL, or, as you suggest, the tackled player to go to ground.

Rules of the game, page 14, Section 1.1 Definitions;
Legal Tackle or Legally Tackled: a tackle by a Player where:
(a) the Player being tackled is in possession of the football; and
(b) that Player is tackled below the shoulders and above the knees.
For the avoidance of doubt, a Legal Tackle may be executed by holding (either by the body or playing uniform) a Player from the front, side or behind, provided that a Player held from behind is not pushed in the back

(Italics added by me) I just rewatched it, Allir brought Astro down, by holding his shin. If that aint a trip nothing ever has been.

 

[BF Tiger]

Rules of the game, page 14, Section 1.1 Definitions;
Legal Tackle or Legally Tackled: a tackle by a Player where:
(a) the Player being tackled is in possession of the football; and
(b) that Player is tackled below the shoulders and above the knees.
For the avoidance of doubt, a Legal Tackle may be executed by holding (either by the body or playing uniform) a Player from the front, side or behind, provided that a Player held from behind is not pushed in the back

(Italics added by me)

So not a trip but not a legal tackle. Award the free kick umpire.

 

[Outback Footy]

So not a trip but not a legal tackle. Award the free kick umpire.

I actually just rewatched it, he brought Naughton down by tackling his shin, its both a trip, and seperately an illegal (low) tackle. Astro should have had 2 kicks :0

Seriously, "Trip" isnt defined, but the above definition of a legal tackle rules out whatever it was Allir did, so by definition thats a "trip". And the almost identical act on Hannan the week before by a tiges defender I couldnt name this far from the event.

 

[BF Tiger]

I actually just rewatched it, he brought Naughton down by tackling his shin, its both a trip, and seperately an illegal (low) tackle. Astro should have had 2 kicks :0

Seriously, "Trip" isnt defined, but the above definition of a legal tackle rules out whatever it was Allir did, so by definition thats a "trip". And the almost identical act on Hannan the week before by a tiges defender I couldnt name this far from the event.

Was it Ralphsmith?

 

[Sentinel]

Two games in a row a Bulldogs forward has been legged in the goal square, literally held onto by one leg so that he physically cant kick the ball. And no free in either case). Ive never seen this before, havent watched many other games over the last couple weeks but havent seen this legging tactic until the last 2 weeks. Is it happening in games I havent been watching?

Last week Mitch Hannan had a goal stolen from him (ball in hand facing an empty goal when opposition grabs his leg, cant kick oppo support arrives, rushed point) with no penalty, it didnt change the outcome of the game thankfully, but last nights legging of Astro by Allir might just have done that. Astro was in the goal square, ball in hand, legged by Allir who was on the ground, rushed through for a point. With us 10 points down and 5-8 mins left in the game. From the kick in Port scored, 12 point turnaround and game changing.

In both cases the dogs players held their foot and didnt go down, maybe they should start diving to show the umps whats going on?

Hopefully Bevo said something, I was too gutted to watch the presser.

And for any Port fan who might be whingeing about umpiring last night, geez your players played dumb, holding dogs players all night. Gave away soooo many free kicks. Which were all legit there. Maybe it was tactic to defeat our height (and I never thought Id say that )

The Mitch Hannan decision was an absolute howler. Terrible miss that I cant believe happened with 4 field umpires.

I'm not sold on the Naughton one being definitely incorrect though, it seems a bit grey based on I think the only camera angle we have. The tackle starts off around the hips and slips down to his knees as he's falling, but it's a little hard to see if the tackle falls below his knees which is required for a free kick. It probably did slip low but hard to tell and thus far from the worst decision you'll see across a weekend.

 

[Outback Footy]

The Mitch Hannan decision was an absolute howler. Terrible miss that I cant believe happened with 4 field umpires.

I'm not sold on the Naughton one being definitely incorrect though, it seems a bit grey based on I think the only camera angle we have. The tackle starts off around the hips and slips down to his knees as he's falling, but it's a little hard to see if the tackle falls below his knees which is required for a free kick. It probably did slip low but hard to tell and thus far from the worst decision you'll see across a weekend.

I must have seen a different angle, what I saw showed Allir wrapping both arms around Astros shin/calf which locked Astros leg and caused him to fall

 

[HTPunter]

Silvagni tripped someone, arm AND leg used, on Thursday night and I have not heard anything about him being cited.

2 players got fined over the weekend though.

 

[HTPunter]

I must have seen a different angle, what I saw showed Allir wrapping both arms around Astros shin/calf which locked Astros leg and caused him to fall

That’s great but if the real time vision and 1 angle doesn’t look like a trip, the ump can’t pay a trip. A crowd camera angle isn’t relevant.

 

[Outback Footy]

That’s great but if the real time vision and 1 angle doesn’t look like a trip, the ump can’t pay a trip. A crowd camera angle isn’t relevant.

I was watching channel 7. Looked very clear to me at the time

 

[Outback Footy]

Silvagni tripped someone, arm AND leg used, on Thursday night and I have not heard anything about him being cited.

2 players got fined over the weekend though.

Trippings not reportable, it should be a free thought. Every time.

 

[It Just Is]

Imagine being told 20 years ago that tripping was maybe a fine at worst but players are regularly suspended for tackles.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Trippings not reportable, it should be a free thought. Every time.

Tripping definitely used to be reportable.

AFL Tribunal, Round 18: Daniel Howe and Tom Cutler found guilty

Hawk, Lion both found guilty at AFL tribunal

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Fletcher charged with tripping

<DIV style=MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt class=MsoNormal><SPAN style=mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'>Essendon veteran Dustin Fletcher has been charged with tripping and faces a one-match ban even with an early plea. </SPAN><SPAN style=mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'>The charge was...

www.essendonfc.com.au

 

[Outback Footy]

Tripping definitely used to be reportable.

AFL Tribunal, Round 18: Daniel Howe and Tom Cutler found guilty

Hawk, Lion both found guilty at AFL tribunal

www.foxsports.com.au

And yet now its not even a freekick

Game changing on saturday night. Not good enough

 

[TheOptimum18]

Seriously, "Trip" isnt defined, but the above definition of a legal tackle rules out whatever it was Allir did, so by definition thats a "trip".

You realise it's not a binary decision right? Just because a player has a hold of a player's leg doesn't automatically make it a trip. What part of "not a legal tackle" then defines what a trip is?

If you were to ask someone to define 'trip' in the normal sense, you expect that part of that definition would include an aspect of falling over due to an action.

Having looked at the replay, Hannan pivots around on the leg Ralphsmith has ahold of, with the option to either handball, or have a shot at goal (which he did). At no point does Hannan fall or stumble (ie. definition of trip) due to Ralphsmith, so I can certainly see why it wasn't given. I've also seen since that in many situations where someone tackles below the legs, but the player with the ball doesn't fall to ground because of it, ump has called play on, so it's not just a one-time thing.

The only thing you would say is that you cannot pay a freekick against Hannan for HTB from Ralphsmith's tackle as it isn't a legal tackle.

(Don't know what happened with Aliir incident as I didn't watch that game, so only commented on the Hannan incident).

 

[Outback Footy]

You realise it's not a binary decision right? Just because a player has a hold of a player's leg doesn't automatically make it a trip. What part of "not a legal tackle" then defines what a trip is?

If you were to ask someone to define 'trip' in the normal sense, you expect that part of that definition would include an aspect of falling over due to an action.

Having looked at the replay, Hannan pivots around on the leg Ralphsmith has ahold of, with the option to either handball, or have a shot at goal (which he did). At no point does Hannan fall or stumble (ie. definition of trip) due to Ralphsmith, so I can certainly see why it wasn't given. I've also seen since that in many situations where someone tackles below the legs, but the player with the ball doesn't fall to ground because of it, ump has called play on, so it's not just a one-time thing.

The only thing you would say is that you cannot pay a freekick against Hannan for HTB from Ralphsmith's tackle as it isn't a legal tackle.

(Don't know what happened with Aliir incident as I didn't watch that game, so only commented on the Hannan incident).

Ive got to disagree, I do think its binary. "Tripping" isnt defined, correct, any tackle below the knee is defined as illegal, so what Ralphsmith and Allir did was illegal and should have been paid. Maybe the umps are more hesitant to blow frees int he goals quare, which would be wrong.

If you can only legally tackle below the neck and above the knee what Ralphsmith did was illegal, in common parlance often called tripping because most blokes fall over when legged. In Allirs case Astro did fall over. Neither was paid, hence my question, is tripping (tackling below the knees) legal now? And I agree its not a one (two) off. It got my attention as both happened over consecutive weeks, in the goal square in the last quarter, both illegal tackles stopped us scoring, and in the context of the Port game could very easily have cost us the game.

By definition a tackle which isnt legal must be illegal?

Maybe I should rename the thread?

 

[TheOptimum18]

Ive got to disagree, I do think its binary. "Tripping" isnt defined, correct, any tackle below the knee is defined as illegal, so what Ralphsmith and Allir did was illegal and should have been paid. Maybe the umps are more hesitant to blow frees int he goals quare, which would be wrong.

If you can only legally tackle below the neck and above the knee what Ralphsmith did was illegal, in common parlance often called tripping because most blokes fall over when legged. In Allirs case Astro did fall over. Neither was paid, hence my question, is tripping (tackling below the knees) legal now? And I agree its not a one (two) off. It got my attention as both happened over consecutive weeks, in the goal square in the last quarter, both illegal tackles stopped us scoring, and in the context of the Port game could very easily have cost us the game.

By definition a tackle which isnt legal must be illegal?

Maybe I should rename the thread?

No. An illegal tackle only means that you can't punish the player with the ball with holding the ball, since the rules explicitly state that the tackle must be legal to be penalised.

The only reference to contact below the knees in the rules that I tried to find is when there's excessive force, such as the two incidents Monday night where Marlion Pickett and a Melbourne defender were both penalised for sliding in. I haven't seen anywhere that states that all contact below the knees is a free kick.

If I had the time and resources, I would be able to find many instances where players tackle an opposition below the knees, but because the opposition wasn't tripped over by the tackle, a free kick wasn't given.

We talk about umps not having common sense when umpiring, this is one of the few rules where umps have actually used common sense to adjudicate.

 

[Outback Footy]

No. An illegal tackle only means that you can't punish the player with the ball with holding the ball, since the rules explicitly state that the tackle must be legal to be penalised.

The only reference to contact below the knees in the rules that I tried to find is when there's excessive force, such as the two incidents Monday night where Marlion Pickett and a Melbourne defender were both penalised for sliding in. I haven't seen anywhere that states that all contact below the knees is a free kick.

If I had the time and resources, I would be able to find many instances where players tackle an opposition below the knees, but because the opposition wasn't tripped over by the tackle, a free kick wasn't given.

We talk about umps not having common sense when umpiring, this is one of the few rules where umps have actually used common sense to adjudicate.

Copied from an earlier post;
Rules of the game, page 14, Section 1.1 Definitions;
Legal Tackle or Legally Tackled: a tackle by a Player where:
(a) the Player being tackled is in possession of the football; and
(b) that Player is tackled below the shoulders and above the knees.
For the avoidance of doubt, a Legal Tackle may be executed by holding (either by the body or playing uniform) a Player from the front, side or behind, provided that a Player held from behind is not pushed in the back

(Italics added by me) I just rewatched it, Allir brought Astro down, by holding his shin. If that aint a trip nothing ever has been. In the Ralphsmith tackle Hannan didnt fall over but was illegally stopped from kicking a goal. As Ive said in that instance it didnt impact the game but even the commentators (notoriously dim witted) saw it and commented that it should have been a free.

If its not a legal tackle, its illegal, ie head high or legging. If both are illegal both should be paid as such. You cant take a blokoes head off, you also cant hold them by the shin, foot, calf, whatever.

If you check the thread title Im asking if this is now legal, clearly you think it is. Cheers

 

[TheOptimum18]

Copied from an earlier post;
Rules of the game, page 14, Section 1.1 Definitions;
Legal Tackle or Legally Tackled: a tackle by a Player where:
(a) the Player being tackled is in possession of the football; and
(b) that Player is tackled below the shoulders and above the knees.
For the avoidance of doubt, a Legal Tackle may be executed by holding (either by the body or playing uniform) a Player from the front, side or behind, provided that a Player held from behind is not pushed in the back

(Italics added by me) I just rewatched it, Allir brought Astro down, by holding his shin. If that aint a trip nothing ever has been. In the Ralphsmith tackle Hannan didnt fall over but was illegally stopped from kicking a goal. As Ive said in that instance it didnt impact the game but even the commentators (notoriously dim witted) saw it and commented that it should have been a free.

If its not a legal tackle, its illegal, ie head high or legging. If both are illegal both should be paid as such. You cant take a blokoes head off, you also cant hold them by the shin, foot, calf, whatever.

If you check the thread title Im asking if this is now legal, clearly you think it is. Cheers

You're asking if it's legal in the title, but appealing for a free kick in your post. Make your mind up.

Well done on finding the definition of what a legal tackle is, now please highlight where it says that an illegal tackle is always punished by a free kick.

You can't take blokes head off not because of what you've found as a definition of what a legal tackle is, but because of what is defined in the rules of what should occur if contact is made above the shoulder. Don't get this fact twisted.

Like I said, the only rule (that I found) that legislates a punishment when we talk about contact below the knees is if a player comes in with excessive forceful contact à la Marlion Pickett and the Melbourne defender on Monday night.