It is time to end the consultancy gravy train and rebuild the public service

[HurleyHepsHird]

Deloitte admits misuse of government information as scandal engulfing PwC widens

Another big four consultancy firm confirms a conflict of interest breach during Senate inquiry, which could prompt further investigations

www.theguardian.com

Ticks on the back of the state.

 

[Power Raid]

Deloitte admits misuse of government information as scandal engulfing PwC widens

Another big four consultancy firm confirms a conflict of interest breach during Senate inquiry, which could prompt further investigations

www.theguardian.com

Ticks on the back of the state.

Government should govern not operate as who holds people to account when things go wrong? Government self regulating?

We see PWC using confidential information and now going through a process.

Meanwhile the Govt admits to installing cameras to steal information from East Timor and steal their oil. Who holds Govt to account?



Things go wrong from time to time. What is important is accountability which you don’t get if the government is the self regulating operator

 

[Pie eyed]

Government should govern not operate as who holds people to account when things go wrong? Government self regulating?

We see PWC using confidential information and now going through a process.

Meanwhile the Govt admits to installing cameras to steal information from East Timor and steal their oil. Who holds Govt to account?



Things go wrong from time to time. What is important is accountability which you don’t get if the government is the self regulating operator

What's this word salad?

The Public Service should be a staffed with employees, not consultants.
Those employees should work to a code of conduct which sets out clearly that their loyalty is to the People of Australia,
Not the politicians, not business, not an ideological economic model, not even the taxpayer, but the people they serve.

 

[Kwality]

The Public Service should be a staffed with employees, not consultants.
Those employees should work to a code of conduct which sets out clearly that their loyalty is to the People of Australia,
Not the politicians, not business, not an ideological economic model, not even the taxpayer, but the people they serve.

& clearly the PS should not work for the Government of the day. Give frank & fearless advice.

Health for example needs to be willing & able to seek the best professional counsel where & when needed, not employ it.

One size does not fit all.
There is plenty to learn from the PWC fiasco for professions & government, but will they listen ?

 

[Power Raid]

What's this word salad?

The Public Service should be a staffed with employees, not consultants.
Those employees should work to a code of conduct which sets out clearly that their loyalty is to the People of Australia,
Not the politicians, not business, not an ideological economic model, not even the taxpayer, but the people they serve.

when government acts corruptly, such as the example I gave........who regulates and governs?

do we dismiss the corrupt government department and engage a civilian enterprise to replace them?

 

[Number37]

when government acts corruptly, such as the example I gave........who regulates and governs?

The people.
At the ballot box.
It's called representative democracy.

That's why we have an implied freedom of political communication.
People can freely and fearlessly question the govt, to hold it to account.

Since Howard, all of the things that protect our democracy have been eroded.
We see that through things like the prosecution of David McBride.
We also see it with the sycophantic relationship between the govt and the media.

 

[kranky al]

Government should govern not operate as who holds people to account when things go wrong? Government self regulating?

We see PWC using confidential information and now going through a process.

Meanwhile the Govt admits to installing cameras to steal information from East Timor and steal their oil. Who holds Govt to account?



Things go wrong from time to time. What is important is accountability which you don’t get if the government is the self regulating operator

That’s because we collectively are a pack of numpties who follow footy teams rather than political parties.

This means we excuse bad behaviour from our own sides and excoriate the other.

Here the difference though, we voted the last lit out, we cant vote pwc out.

 

[Power Raid]

The people.
At the ballot box.
It's called representative democracy.

That's why we have an implied freedom of political communication.
People can freely and fearlessly question the govt, to hold it to account.

Since Howard, all of the things that protect our democracy have been eroded.
We see that through things like the prosecution of David McBride.
We also see it with the sycophantic relationship between the govt and the media.

That’s because we collectively are a pack of numpties who follow footy teams rather than political parties.

This means we excuse bad behaviour from our own sides and excoriate the other.

Here the difference though, we voted the last lit out, we cant vote pwc out.

We also don't vote out government departments

 

[Power Raid]

The people.
At the ballot box.
It's called representative democracy.

That's why we have an implied freedom of political communication.
People can freely and fearlessly question the govt, to hold it to account.

Since Howard, all of the things that protect our democracy have been eroded.
We see that through things like the prosecution of David McBride.
We also see it with the sycophantic relationship between the govt and the media.

governments were responsible for rounding up blacks into slave labour camps, taking their income and placing it with government, taking their kids away etc etc.

governments run policing and self review issues such as self reporting

governments run vehicle licencing and anyone remembering the 70s would remember having to take a day off to line up for 6 hours to pay an invoice.

anyone who tried to sign up with the government apps in recent years would know these agencies are not service related or care about vulnerable people


the failure of government is not a recent thing but rather a cultural problem. Zero accountability and zero fk mentality towards the people they serve.

 

[kranky al]

We also don't vote out government departments

No but we vote in people who can.

Also a government department isnt constantly being seduced with a profit motive. You arent constantly being tempted with knowledge that can financially benefit you and your customers to the tune of millions.

 

[Cap]

No but we vote in people who can.

Also a government department isnt constantly being seduced with a profit motive. You arent constantly being tempted with knowledge that can financially benefit you and your customers to the tune of millions.

It's also why we needed ICAC and the like, to provide additional checks and balances.

The funny part is, not all Govts don't care about their people, we just have people who voted for Scott Morrison and think that's how all politicians are, they'll even vote for Peter Dutton and act stunned when he turns out worse.

Edit - in SA we were so Angry about ramping we voted back in the party that caused such was the desire of a largely stupid electorate to fix the problem, and guess what we are all shocked it got worse.

 

[Power Raid]

No but we vote in people who can.

Also a government department isnt constantly being seduced with a profit motive. You arent constantly being tempted with knowledge that can financially benefit you and your customers to the tune of millions.

ok

so despite a few hundred years of government departments and organisations in Australia we will somehow no longer have police corruption and police excessive force, fraud, robo debt etc because we will introduce voting?

We will also hire the best people with all the skills that departments currently don't have and even if needed for short periods of time, have them on the payroll

We will also deny these experts industry experience by having them inhouse only, so their amazing skill and experience is no longer contemporary

the reality is.................it sounds like a shit plan

 

[kranky al]

ok

so despite a few hundred years of government departments and organisations in Australia we will somehow no longer have police corruption and police excessive force, fraud, robo debt etc because we will introduce voting?

We will also hire the best people with all the skills that departments currently don't have and even if needed for short periods of time, have them on the payroll

We will also deny these experts industry experience by having them inhouse only, so their amazing skill and experience is no longer contemporary

the reality is.................it sounds like a s**t plan

Those certainly are all indeed words.

 

[Number37]

governments were responsible for rounding up blacks into slave labour camps, taking their income and placing it with government, taking their kids away etc etc.

governments run policing and self review issues such as self reporting

governments run vehicle licencing and anyone remembering the 70s would remember having to take a day off to line up for 6 hours to pay an invoice.

anyone who tried to sign up with the government apps in recent years would know these agencies are not service related or care about vulnerable people


the failure of government is not a recent thing but rather a cultural problem. Zero accountability and zero fk mentality towards the people they serve.

Govts are held to account at the ballot box.
That's how democracy works.
No sh!t govts and govt departments treat people like garbage. They get away with it because govts spend a lot of time demonising vulnerable people.
Robodebt is just the latest example. Before welfare recipients it was "boat people".

We also have a very strict separation of powers at Federal level.
The stacking of the AAT by the previous LNP govts should be seen as nothing more than the corruption it is.
The AAT performs a very very very important role in holding govts to account. Again. VERY IMPORTANT ROLE.
Natural Justice/Procedural Fairness is the only thing that stops us from being under a dictatorship.
Natural Justice is the cornerstone of Administrative Law.
When the Howard govt tried to completely remove the concept of Natural Justice from Adminstrative Law, for the sole purpose of demonising refugees, they were cheered on by most. The consequence of removing Natural Justice from Administrative Law is that EVERYBODY suffers. Everybody who ever has a beef with the govt suffers. Everybody suffers when Natural Justice is removed from Administrative Law because Natural Justice levels the playing field when you take on the govt.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

I am in agreement with Allan Fels.

No government may have the stones to do it, but the industry needs serious reform and that includes breaking up the large firms which dominate the sector and have evolved to capture public institutions.







The country should not be run by incompetent or corrupt private sector boffins, who often put the interests of other large clients ahead of their alleged duty to citizens and the state, when taking on these contracts.

It's become little more than a scam to bleed public funds and also confidential public information, away from public hands.

 

[faible]

I am in agreement with Allan Fels.

No government may have the stones to do it, but the industry needs serious reform and that includes breaking up the large firms which dominate the sector and have evolved to capture public institutions.

View attachment 1741170

View attachment 1741171

View attachment 1741172

The country should not be run by incompetent or corrupt private sector boffins, who often put the interests of other large clients ahead of their alleged duty to citizens and the state, when taking on these contracts.

It's become little more than a scam to bleed public funds and also confidential public information, away from public hands.

Remove the bulk of the bureaucracy from Centrelink and the welfare system, reassign those resources to do other more useful things for society. Stop paying huge outside consulting firms huge sums of money.

 

[Gough]

In the same way that the dole bludger narrative enabled something like Robodebt, the demonisation of Public Servants was what allowed the whole system to be gradually chipped away at until we found ourselves where we are now.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

In the same way that the dole bludger narrative enabled something like Robodebt, the demonisation of Public Servants was what allowed the whole system to be gradually chipped away at until we found ourselves where we are now.

Australian government spending on big four consultancy firms up 1,270% in a decade, analysis shows

PwC, Deloitte, KPMG and EY face scrutiny as critics warn core functions of democracy should not be outsourced

www.theguardian.com

And with predictably awful results.

The US long ago allowed the levers of government to be captured by the PMC class and associated cadre of consultancy firms and it has devestated just about every area of state responsibility.

People point to Trump as the primary driver behind the USs awful COVID response, but the truth is much bleaker.

A bunch of ill equiped business school sociopaths ala Mayor Pete with zero subject experience working for companies like McKinsey, should not be in charge of critical decisions that effect millions of lives.

From war, to environmental protections and public health, these empty suits have occupied the role of defacto public service and the US is in a state of near collapse in part because of it. Fake work and useless "advice" as an in to plunder public coffers.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

Deloitte declines to tell Senate which government department’s information it leaked internally

Greens senator repeatedly asks firm to reveal which department was implicated but question taken on notice

www.theguardian.com

Deloitte refusing during Senate Estimates to reveal which departments it leaked information from, is a hell of a thing.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

Public servants complained about PwC ‘spamming’ them with unsolicited work offers, emails reveal

Correspondence released by agriculture department shows level of discomfort among officials about embattled firm’s efforts to land new contracts

www.theguardian.com

And so it goes.

Rob R

 

[Rob R]

Public servants complained about PwC ‘spamming’ them with unsolicited work offers, emails reveal

Correspondence released by agriculture department shows level of discomfort among officials about embattled firm’s efforts to land new contracts

www.theguardian.com

And so it goes.

Rob R

They need a royal commission into this especially the proliferation of strategic partner arrangements where the big 4 mentor leaders and end up with never ending contracts.

Another dodgy is industry secondments - senior public servants working for the big 4 to enhance their commercial skills and end up helping to write tender proposals.

Then we have the issue of government employees working part time for the government and part time for consultancy firms - in the same govt branch on the same task. Bit hard for other companies to win tenders and why are we paying a consultant for a job the govt employee can clearly do. Perhaps the inquiry should ask govt departments where this is happening?


On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[peetoo]

Australian government spending on big four consultancy firms up 1,270% in a decade, analysis shows

PwC, Deloitte, KPMG and EY face scrutiny as critics warn core functions of democracy should not be outsourced

www.theguardian.com

And with predictably awful results.

The US long ago allowed the levers of government to be captured by the PMC class and associated cadre of consultancy firms and it has devestated just about every area of state responsibility.

People point to Trump as the primary driver behind the USs awful COVID response, but the truth is much bleaker.

A bunch of ill equiped business school sociopaths ala Mayor Pete with zero subject experience working for companies like McKinsey, should not be in charge of critical decisions that effect millions of lives.

From war, to environmental protections and public health, these empty suits have occupied the role of defacto public service and the US is in a state of near collapse in part because of it. Fake work and useless "advice" as an in to plunder public coffers.

Currently I see an army of consultants charging by the hour to find out organisational information, which no doubt they will charge another agency by the hour to provide for them.

It’s often what public servants know, but are so flat out they can’t pass on the information direct.

 

[Crankyhawk]

when government acts corruptly, such as the example I gave........who regulates and governs?

do we dismiss the corrupt government department and engage a civilian enterprise to replace them?

No, use an independent ombudsman

 

[Crankyhawk]

We also don't vote out government departments

You can vote out a government for mismanaging the departments and also sack the high level bureaucrats (who actually provide minimal frontline use)

 

[Power Raid]

You can vote out a government for mismanaging the departments and also sack the high level bureaucrats (who actually provide minimal frontline use)

just talking to ARENA recently and they said "silica for solar panels is not mined" "it just comes out of a box"

imagine trying to remedy this level of incompetence?

we've seen the backlash every time we see a government try and privatise a power station, reform the ABC or other departments. We see the challenges of removing police brutality and corruption in the ranks, the military murders of civilians and other war crimes...........and then silence.

There is enough body of evidence governments and government departments can not operate and self regulate. Having contractors who can be instantly dismissed, named and shamed and face the wrath of the regulator is a recipe for accountability.