its official

[Chops]

Originally posted by Bulldog1954


The horse had bolted when Burton kicked 4 in the first quarter. the Horse, we'll call him Birdman was then caught and placed in the paddock not to be seen for the rest of the day.

And rather then being terrible that a man of Hunters size had to take Burton you might say it is great that a man of Hunters size had the pace and ground work to match a man so much smaller. And I think you'll find the Birdman is a very very good mark, no one his own size can match him in the air. But I will admit Hunter doesn't use his bulk as well as he could.

And there are other options then bagging Hunter, How about the majority of the side he played better then today.

And you bag Hunter yet praise Saunders. What did he get, 2 marks and 2 kicks???

Ok you win on Hunter, he played great and he will win the Norm Smith next year.

Saunders may not be a champion but he took their best defender for about 1 quarter. There are no other options here.

 

[Chops]

Originally posted by handball_bart
You cant blame the coach on every game

I didn't say that either. We don't have the material!

 

[Bulldog1954]

Originally posted by Chops


Ok you win on Hunter, he played great and he will win the Norm Smith next year.

What a stupid thing to say. All I am after is people recognising when Hunter plays well, like today rather then using him as a scapegoat

 

[Chops]

Interesting Stats

Hunter 3 kicks 3 handballs 3 marks (playing mostly in defence) Match time - whole game
Saunders 2 kicks 1 handball 3 marks (playing CHF) Match time ???

Burton's Stats after hit lace out by Hunter????

 

[The_Flying_Egg]

Originally posted by Chops
Interesting Stats

Hunter 3 kicks 3 handballs 3 marks (playing mostly in defence) Match time - whole game
Saunders 2 kicks 1 handball 3 marks (playing CHF) Match time ???

Burton's Stats after hit lace out by Hunter????

Brett Burton got 11 disposals and 4 goals

Out of interest Chops would you agree that would mean in 3 quarters on Kingsley he would have got 0 goals, 0 points, and maybe 6 possesions

By my maths would that mean per quarter he got 2 possesions on Kingsley and didn't score

Is there something Im missing????

 

[Curly5]

Originally posted by handball_bart
You can blame individual players all you like but look at adelaides aggression at the ball particully in the foward 50. if we were as agressive as them and our skill level was up to scratch we wouldve won.The number one thing in football is to get first to the ball,and if you cant do that apply pressure to the opposition who has the ball. We were beaten by adelaide on both counts and thats why we lost.

Spot on. Adelaide set themselves to beat us today and end our run of wins over there, and "keep us out of the finals" - to quote the charming Gary Ayres.

Our skill level, except for a few flashes, was as poor as it's ever been, second efforts non-existent, tackles ineffective, decision-making sub-standard.

I thought Hunter, Libba and Dimma were among our "best", but that's not really saying a lot.

 

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Bulldog1954


What a stupid thing to say. All I am after is people recognising when Hunter plays well, like today rather then using him as a scapegoat

Think this is a fair call.

I agree with most who say that Kinger should have been dropped by now. But let's not let the mist cloud our eyes too much.

Give credit where it is due.

 

[Chops]

Originally posted by The_Flying_Egg


Brett Burton got 11 disposals and 4 goals

Out of interest Chops would you agree that would mean in 3 quarters on Kingsley he would have got 0 goals, 0 points, and maybe 6 possesions

By my maths would that mean per quarter he got 2 possesions on Kingsley and didn't score

Is there something Im missing????

In reference to Burton, maybe Hunter did a good job on him shutting him out. I would have to watch it again and Burton more closely. As a forward you kick 4 every week and dish off couple of assist every quarter and you've done your job well. Has this bloke been quiet until this week? He played good footy in the Colonial R1 game as well.

In reference to Saunders, while he was on he provided a target. 3 marks from CHF in about a quarter leading up the ground against a defender like Smart was ok. He is no champion but another tall forward is needed when Grant plays in the backline. What we lacked last week.

In reference to Hunter, I honestly wish he was back to his 2000 form in defence. He is no where near this. Others players like Eagleton, Gilbee, Birss, and Dimma get dropped because of poor form. Hunter has to stay in because there is no one ready to fill the void.

 

[Chops]

Originally posted by The Doctor


Think this is a fair call.

I agree with most who say that Kinger should have been dropped by now. But let's not let the mist cloud our eyes too much.

Give credit where it is due.

Yes I agree the whole team played badly. I'm not singling out Kinger as the only one that desevered to be dropped. We can't win enough games to get in the finals, let alone win premierships with players out of form.

I pray Penny can take CHB, Harris FB, players like Hargrave fill out in muscle and others pressure them every week for selection.

 

[Dogs r Roos]

Originally posted by stefoid
2002 is over.

Hopefully Wallace will swallow his pride and concede the rest of the season. There is no point finishing high on the second ladder.

Players who should be given a run:
Hahn, Penny, Cross, Gilbee, MacMahon, Power, McGuinness

Players who should be given a rest:
Kritter, Garlick, Harrison, Libba, Dimma, Eagleton

Well said, but I'd include Hunter in this equation - I wouldn't even bother trying him at FF. What's the use ? McGuinness, Saunders, anyone, could do a better job in FF, at this stage, than him. Bring on 2003.

And perhaps wallace should 'experiment' with a straighter and more accountable strategy?

 

[ok.crows]

Just thought I'd put a Crows POV on this Burton discussion.

Burton has often played games where he was "on fire" for just the first quarter, then gone out of the game somewhat after that. It seems to be his nature.

Sorry to point this out, but it has nothing to do with who was Burton's opponent. This is purely a trait of Burton himself.

In today's game after his first quarter Burton did not disappear entirely from the game. He set up at least another two goals.

 

[Chops]

Has he(Burton) been out of form?

Hargrave has done a great job in the seniors but its possible time to give him a rest and get him on the weights.
Plays better along side Grant, but opponent jumping for mark while he stands flat footed. Essendon and Hawthorn opponents did the same.

Protect him as he copped a bad knock and is still very slight but will be a gun.

 

[stefoid]

Originally posted by handball_bart
Wallace would be the first to admitt that his coaching wasnt up to scratch today. But i think it was the players that were reactive today rather than the coach. Where as last week he was out coached. You cant blame the coach on every game

Its just that, in my opinion, we play too wide and loose. There is such a thing as a posession game, which worked well for us in 97. Caught everybody off guard, almost won us a flag, but we all know that story.

The other end of the spectrum is a North style game, which is win the contests, and kick long and direct.

Without Carey, Pagan has been smart enough to modify his game plan somewhat. All Im saying is that Wallace should swallow his pride and do the same the other way.

It seems to me that a possession style game relies too much on players having to run all day, continually loose their man, running forward of the ball etc... Its a style of play that seems to fall apart under pressure, and doesnt give the players 'hard contest' skills.

I predict that North might do well in this years finals series because their style of play means that they constantly practice those skills that are at a premium come finals time...they constantly prepare for finals footy. The teams that practice loose and forward running might collapse come finals time, like we did in 98. You just might see Port fall over to the likes of North.

 

[SCRAY72]

What makes this season a frustrating missed opportunity is that we have had minimal injuries to our top 10 or so players and although some young guys have stepped up others have stagnated.
Why is it every time we lose this tired debate about Hunter, Dimma, Liberatore, Garlick etc. comes up?
The realists amongst us knew the season was over after round 5 and the signs were there as early as the fade out against North in round 2.
We have defiencies all over the ground as most teams do which need to addressed. I am looking forward to Thursday's team selection which will be a signal from the club identifying which direction we are heading.
Wallace says we can "mathematically make it" This is code for "we are gone" Pretty soon it will be "Shape the 8 and best team outside the 8"

Overall, unfortunately, the negatives this year have won over the positives.

 

[Bulldog1954]

Originally posted by SCRAY72

Why is it every time we lose this tired debate about Hunter, Dimma, Liberatore, Garlick etc. comes up?

Because someone instantly comes on and lays the blame on Hunter or Dimattina regardless of how they have played. When in truth the blame is on the majority of players and the way we are playing

 

[Chops]

Originally posted by Bulldog1954


Because someone instantly comes on and lays the blame on Hunter or Dimattina regardless of how they have played. When in truth the blame is on the majority of players and the way we are playing

When we can change a majority of players and replace them with team as good then people won't look for the weakest links.

In reality only 2 or 3 players are blamed for a loss by getting dropped.

Yes there are a lot of players out of form, some more than other are easily replaced.
The question is how many other sides would our fringe players fit into.

 

[Bulldog1954]

Originally posted by Chops


When we can change a majority of players and replace them with team as good then people won't look for the weakest links.

In reality only 2 or 3 players are blamed for a loss by getting dropped.

Yes there are a lot of players out of form, some more than other are easily replaced.
The question is how many other sides would our fringe players fit into.

Its a fair point, but in my opinion even the best sides have fringe players. I mean last year at Brissie Picken played for the first 10 or so weeks

 

[Dry Rot]

Originally posted by Chops

The question is how many other sides would our fringe players fit into.

A very good question. I would reframe it as "How many GOOD sides..."

 

[Dry Rot]

Originally posted by SCRAY72

The realists amongst us knew the season was over after round 5 and the signs were there as early as the fade out against North in round 2.
We have defiencies all over the ground as most teams do which need to addressed.

Agreed.

Most of us got carried away after a run of victories against sides which are pretty ordinary (like us as it turns out).

With Croft getting old and slow and Grant injured, we don't look too flash along our "spine", lacking quality FB, CHB, tap ruckman, CHF and FF. And we lack real taggers and big midfielders like Voss.

Now is the time to give those on our list playing for Werribee a go, and see what resources we may need to draft and what we can use from what we have for next season.