Rumour Jamar a Magpie in 2013?

[Nicco_jj]

As already stated -
If he comes to us he'll be on Peanuts. He 'll be lucky to get $200,000.

Also , the only way this could be possible is if Johnson retires.

Will Minson has already said he's staying at the dogs. So I think he's staying at the dogs. Nuff said.

 

[Temploar]

We'll either get Jamar, Warnock or Giles. Pick one of the three.
Nuff said.

 

[mark121]

Jamar has been starved of sucess on the field and would likely be willing to play for less if a finals contender like Collingwood or mabe Hawthorn who despreatly need a good ruckman show interest. (dont forget the impact Jolly had on collingwood in his first year).

Being an unrestricted free agent makes the change easy if cap space can be found but that is only likely to happen if another player is cut or lost to another team.

who would Collingwood be prepared to lose if push came to shove? Didak

 

[jonbe54]

Jamar has been starved of sucess on the field and would likely be willing to play for less if a finals contender like Collingwood or mabe Hawthorn who despreatly need a good ruckman show interest. (dont forget the impact Jolly had on collingwood in his first year).

Being an unrestricted free agent makes the change easy if cap space can be found but that is only likely to happen if another player is cut or lost to another team.

who would Collingwood be prepared to lose if push came to shove? Didak

Benny has already said he's likely to retire at end of season.

 

[Knightmare]

Free agency makes Jamar a serious possibility.

Beats not contending for a premiership with Melbourne for Jamar.

I also don't have a problem with a Jolly/Jamar combination. Both can present as marking targets up forward and both are above average ruckmen.

I'd fully support a move for Jamar through free agency if he came at the right price. Makes us better immediately and with Ball/Keeffe/Macaffer/Krakouer and the rest of the team healthy next year could be really fun to watch.

Much better than trading into another ruckman and having to give up further assets as we have in the past.

 

[Dundalis]

Not really. They wouldn't be worrying about future expenses and salary issues now, when they need to be focusing on fitting all our current players under the cap.

Current players now, future players later.

Keeping this current group together is a must and anything after that is a bonus.

I see upper level management is not something you are familiar with. And probably never will be with that sort of mindset.

Jamar is certainly not the worst option. The only issue is I think he would be a terrible 2nd ruckman. He and Jolly are number one rucks. I'm not sure how well they would do together.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

So we would have a VFL team full of ruckman again, with only one of Jamar, Jolly, Wood, Witts and Ceglar to play seniors. If Cloke goes, we will be able to offer much more to a free agent player, and we could safely delist Wood once his buddy has gone. At the moment, any costly player is out of the question, unless as has been suggested, we give someone up to get something we need.

 

[Old Spice]

Wouldn't it cause a rift between him and Jolly since he called him soft?

Jolly while at Sydney pilloried Fraser, its a non issue. Of the highest magnitude.

Would be worth getting rid of someone just to get him - can't win a premiership without a competitive ruckman, Jolly is about finished and Jamar is very competitive.

My opinion is Jolly is battling through the year and we're managing him as such. Jols has another year of contract but the club will be able to sort him financially with some post 2012 lucre from other sources if it came to that. My feeling is that Jolly will finish his career in 2013 but that we might be able to renegotiate his contract with some make up money / scheme post his career.

As already stated -
If he comes to us he'll be on Peanuts. He 'll be lucky to get $200,000.

Also , the only way this could be possible is if Johnson retires.

Will Minson has already said he's staying at the dogs. So I think he's staying at the dogs. Nuff said.

I think Jamar could easily be accomodated if BJ and Wood departed. Tarrant probably won't go beyond 2013.

On the list management and cap space, when the club says they have no money, that doesn't means they have no money to spare for future planning. They earmark stuff and forward plan.

 

[Pera]

I see upper level management is not something you are familiar with. And probably never will be with that sort of mindset.

Jamar is certainly not the worst option. The only issue is I think he would be a terrible 2nd ruckman. He and Jolly are number one rucks. I'm not sure how well they would do together.

And I see reading and comprehension isnt your strong suit either.

Never even mentioned Jamar and his capabilities. Don't really care either. Example, we have hypothetically 2.2M in our cap left, and we have in theory 5 or 6 key players to sign. Why would we focus on chasing a 28 y.o. ruckman, probably giving good money when we need that money to go to our current list and signings?

 

[vjknight]

why would jamar be costly ?

no doubt being in such an ordinary squad after a huge season 2-3 years ago he'd be on good dollars at present, and as stated he may simply be after a bit of success, to one day retire with more than just a nice house.

ask jolly - where else is a premiership worth more ?

 

[Dundalis]

And I see reading and comprehension isnt your strong suit either.

Never even mentioned Jamar and his capabilities. Don't really care either. Example, we have hypothetically 2.2M in our cap left, and we have in theory 5 or 6 key players to sign. Why would we focus on chasing a 28 y.o. ruckman, probably giving good money when we need that money to go to our current list and signings?

Why are you making hypotheticals when you have no idea what the situation is? My response was regarding the evident short term strategics in your post. No organisation with decent upper level management makes short term decisions without considering long term implications or opportunities. I certainly don't expect the hierarchy at Collingwood to be so limited in their outlook.

My line about Jamar was actually a response to the thread in general though I didn't make it obvious. Bringing in Jamar wouldn't be the worst option, but it's probably not necessary unless there is additional information we don't know regarding the rucks we've got.

 

[Pera]

True, but I dont think he'd come across and play for donuts, with a heap of potential time in the magoo's being 2nd to Jolly.

I guess we'll see how it all plays out.

 

[Knightmare]

The more likely scenario would be:

AFL: Jolly/Jamar.

VFL: Ceglar/Witts/Gault.

Delist: Wood and McNamara.

So the quantity of rucks is perfect if this scenario were to play out.

Wood can only be delisted on the condition that we add a Jamar/other capable no.1 ruckman, as things are right now with Ceglar and Witts still developing Wood needs to be retained, but with the addition of another quality ruckman it makes it allot easier and the correct course of action as far as I'm concerned.

The thing with Jamar is that he probably won't be as costly as people seem to think. He is not a top 10 ruckman anymore, he is still a very solid top 15 ruckman turning 30 next year so being in what likely is the last little bit of his career I expect he would be willing to take a minor pay cut to join a contender considering there is a role available to him and because there is the opportunity for success which I don't believe would be available to him at another club - as the recent improvers in and likely premiership contendors over the next few years in: Carlton, West Coast, Adelaide and even Essendon all have strong ruck divisions whereas Collingwood only have Jolly who probably will play his final season next year to go along with some developing rucks who need more time.

 

[jonbe54]

Much depends on just how well Jols body is holding up, this we don't - and won't know from the club or elsewhere. We can only speculate that if Jols bod is getting too close to the end we may need a stop gap 1st ruck to hold the fort until Celgar/Witts types can come through.

As in most things in life timing is critical, Jols bod might hold up until finals time and go on him early next year, by then it will be too late to grab a free agent like Jamar.

Putting myself in a recruiters hat I would be having 'possibility' talks with blokes like Jamar to prepare the ground in case of need. Does no harm and gives both parties a chance to sound each other out without the pressure of a binding agreement looming.

Would be surprised if some sort of overtures haven't already been initiated.

 

[Optimax]

Didn't he call Jolly soft?

Who gives a shit?

 

[Dundalis]

The more likely scenario would be:

AFL: Jolly/Jamar.

VFL: Ceglar/Witts/Gault.

Delist: Wood and McNamara.

So the quantity of rucks is perfect if this scenario were to play out.

Wood can only be delisted on the condition that we add a Jamar/other capable no.1 ruckman, as things are right now with Ceglar and Witts still developing Wood needs to be retained, but with the addition of another quality ruckman it makes it allot easier and the correct course of action as far as I'm concerned.

The thing with Jamar is that he probably won't be as costly as people seem to think. He is not a top 10 ruckman anymore, he is still a very solid top 15 ruckman turning 30 next year so being in what likely is the last little bit of his career I expect he would be willing to take a minor pay cut to join a contender considering there is a role available to him and because there is the opportunity for success which I don't believe would be available to him at another club - as the recent improvers in and likely premiership contendors over the next few years in: Carlton, West Coast, Adelaide and even Essendon all have strong ruck divisions whereas Collingwood only have Jolly who probably will play his final season next year to go along with some developing rucks who need more time.

My issue is they are both predominantly tap ruckman. They don't get the ball. They can go forward and kick goals, but IMO if you use them for any lengthy period in the forward line they are likely to become a liability. They are both relatively immobile ruckman of the dinosaur variety.

The sole area they dominate in that has made them good ruckmen is the actual ruckwork. If you are then splitting that between them I think they each become a lot less valuable. While one is rucking, you have to find somewhere else to put the other. I'm not so sure the tandem would work that well. There's a reason Leigh Brown worked so well as a second ruckman for us despite being rubbish at actual ruck work.

 

[Old Spice]

I reckon Jolly needs to be nursed through this year and possibly next, like Ottens.

Can play some brilliant clutch games but I don't think we can rely on Jolly to play the whole season this or next. Jamar is something of a Jolly, a player who is not going to dominate but give us quality relief until Witts can come on.

It's just unbearable to imagine that we would waste early picks in this and next years super drafts on rucks when we are right in the killing zone. It would be an utter waste of early picks to spend them on draft rucks or for that matter quality rucks like Giles etc who would cost us some penny.

I'd prefer us to use our early picks over the next two years on some gun mids and KP players. Rucks are always a risk, let's chance our arm on cheapies and outcasts like Maric, McCauley and Jenkins. We have some certainty around Jamar who should be cheap, that's the go.

 

[Dundalis]

I reckon Jolly needs to be nursed through this year and possibly next, like Ottens.

Can play some brilliant clutch games but I don't think we can rely on Jolly to play the whole season this or next. Jamar is something of a Jolly, a player who is not going to dominate but give us quality relief until Witts can come on.

It's just unbearable to imagine that we would waste early picks in this and next years super drafts on rucks when we are right in the killing zone. It would be an utter waste of early picks to spend them on draft rucks or for that matter quality rucks like Giles etc who would cost us some penny.

I'd prefer us to use our early picks over the next two years on some gun mids and KP players. Rucks are always a risk, let's chance our arm on cheapies and outcasts like Maric, McCauley and Jenkins.

Who are we going to be wasting early draft picks on? Jamar would be had for nothing. Melbourne would be receiving a compensatory pick from the AFL if I'm not mistaken.

We certainly aren't in a position where we need to trade for a ruck. We don't have Josh Fraser as our number one anymore.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

We could easily afford him if jolly retires.

 

[robertg22]

An article from sportsnewsworst that doesn't even bother to quote anyone.. how unusual

 

[Old Spice]

Who are we going to be wasting early draft picks on? Jamar would be had for nothing. Melbourne would be receiving a compensatory pick from the AFL if I'm not mistaken.

We certainly aren't in a position where we need to trade for a ruck. We don't have Josh Fraser as our number one anymore.

Read it again. My point is that it would be a waste to spend first two pciks in this and next years draft on a ruck.

I'm for using a 3rd round pick on a stop-gap ruck in the next two years. Ruck picks are punts and an extraodrinary number of quality rucks bloom late through rookie list: Cox, Sandilands, Jolly et al.

I think Jamar as an unrestricted FA represents excellent value.

PS what I'd like to know is how we pay for an unrestricted FA. Do we have to give up a draft pick or not?

 

[Knightmare]

My issue is they are both predominantly tap ruckman. They don't get the ball. They can go forward and kick goals, but IMO if you use them for any lengthy period in the forward line they are likely to become a liability. They are both relatively immobile ruckman of the dinosaur variety.

The sole area they dominate in that has made them good ruckmen is the actual ruckwork. If you are then splitting that between them I think they each become a lot less valuable. While one is rucking, you have to find somewhere else to put the other. I'm not so sure the tandem would work that well. There's a reason Leigh Brown worked so well as a second ruckman for us despite being rubbish at actual ruck work.

I can imagine both of Jolly and Jamar will be nursed through the season and will get weeks off here and there.

In combination I don't see it as such a bad thing. You are right in that both Jolly and Jamar are of the dinosaur variety but both as forwards are big and strong enough to create a contest and bring it to ground which is what they would be there for and still is a role either/or could play. We have enough pressuring forwards already in Sinclair, Goldsack, Krakouer, Macaffer and then Mooney if he develops. Then Fasolo, Blair, Wellingham and others are also good enough in pressuring roles so even with a forward set up of the two key forwards and with a resting ruck I don't see it as an issue to the extent that it would be with Wood - who doesn't fit into the team because he can't present as a forward target, take a mark or even create a contest or bring it to ground.

I'd take a Jolly/Jamar combination over Jolly/L.Brown to be honest. It might not be as flexible but both can ruck and both can still take a grab and present - personally I don't mind the extra height and in this case with both reasonable as forwards I can see it being one of the more effective ruck combinations - having two top 15 league rucks is a big edge over most sides and will be very important if we want to compete against the strong ruck divisions of our likely future premiership rivals in West Coast, Essendon, Carlton and Adelaide.

 

[Knightmare]

Read it again. My point is that it would be a waste to spend first two pciks in this and next years draft on a ruck.

I'm for using a 3rd round pick on a stop-gap ruck in the next two years. Ruck picks are punts and an extraodrinary number of quality rucks bloom late through rookie list: Cox, Sandilands, Jolly et al.

I think Jamar as an unrestricted FA represents excellent value.

PS what I'd like to know is how we pay for an unrestricted FA. Do we have to give up a draft pick or not?

A player has served ten or more seasons of AFL football at one club, has already come out of contract once in the period after serving his first eight or more seasons at his club, and is now out of contract. (Unrestricted free agent)
The player is eligible to field offers from all rival clubs.
If he wishes to change clubs, the player must decide on the best offer of his choice from one rival club.
His club does NOT have the right to match the presented offer, and the player can move AUTOMATICALLY to the new club of his choice.
His original club will receive a compensation pick for the loss of the player, on an AFL-determined formula to apply where clubs lose more free agents than they gain in any single transfer period.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

In 2010, Jolly was a slow starter, and didn't really get into top gear till after the mid season break. Maybe he is building up to a big second half, and with Wood to give him a rest as required, Jolly may have more in reserve than you think.

Having said that, next year is another story. I have faith in Collingwood to nurse Jolly through this year. Jolly once called Hawkins weak, so he is not against a bit of personal criticism, as he recently showed with Daniher. Who cares if he hates Jamar or anyone else we choose to get in?

Jolly has been in the system long enough to know the realities of modern football. A ruckman who can impose himself on the contest and ruck 80% is the expectation. Preferably the ruckman should not be running a fairly distant second to Buddy Frankliin in frees against stats.

This year's draft is not one in which clubs will want to give up draft picks on re-cycled players. Everyone of our draft picks should be spent on youth, including Stewart's son, in the hope he is better than his old man. Even a 3rd rounder for a ruck seems wasteful. Matt Rendell described this as the best draft ever. Let's not commit ourselves to these 2nd hand players till we've mulled over the latest models and done our maths.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

to apply where clubs lose more free agents than they gain in any single transfer period[/B].

So this means that the player can choose his club and the AFL are only involved if the club has lost more free agent players than it gained? If we got Jamar, is that considered like a straight swap? Obviously the original club cannot stipulate what it wants in exchange and the new club would give as little as possible. I don't fully comprehend the compensation requirements.