January 26th 2025

[Redline]

I continue to question why people care if it changes from the 26th. It's only been a national day for about 30 years. It's not significant to many at all.

I think very few care about the date. Most just don't want to be told that it needs to change.and don't like references to invasion day and the protesting. I am not saying which side is right or wrong. it's just the way things currently are.

The sooner those that want the date change realise that, the more chance they have of the a date change happening.

 

[schneebly111]

Rubbish.. an ultra minority will march tomorrow, the rest who don’t will go about their business… the best thing every year is seeing immigrants to this country celebrating Australia with multi generational Australians and indigenous people

The typical crowd that get ”patriotic” on the day are overwhelminly white and Anglo. Non white migrants don’t get “patriotic”, and as we’ve established most Australians just treat it as another day off.

 

[schneebly111]

Australia had plenty of reasons to become involved in World War I.

Australia was a part of the British Empire and regarded its’ interests as being as one with Britain. There’s no question that Britain was Australia’s most important trading partner and any German attempt to isolate Britain economically, via a larger navy, that might rival Britain's own navy was going to have a very large negative impact on Australia.

As Australia’s security in East Asia and the Pacific at that time was also tied up with Britain’s naval dominance, the Australian government was keen not to see British naval power diminished. That meant that the Australian government wanted to limit Germany’s naval influence and to ensure that Britain remained the world’s dominant naval power and indeed one of the world’s leading powers.

The Ottoman Empire in the late 19th century and the first years of the twentieth century had been drawing close to Germany both militarily and financially. When World War I broke out, the Ottomans saw an opportunity to:
1) win back territories lost in the Balkan and Libyan wars,
2) reduce the influence of the Triple Entente (of which their main rival Russia was a member and
3) equalize its friendly relationship with Germany by entering the war as a partner and ally.

The Ottomans hoped that a victorious Germany would see fit to restore some of their territorial losses and give them financial concessions from the beaten Entente.

On 27th September 1914, Turkey closed the Straits of the Dardanelles to British, French and Russian shipping. On 29th October, German warships with Turkish support bombarded Russian Black Sea ports. Turkey was now drawn further into the German sphere of influence, and on 5 November 1914 Britain and France officially declared war on the Ottoman Empire.

The main reasons the Gallipoli peninsula was attacked were to:

1) Strike a blow at Germany by defeating one of their two main allies.
2) Establish a sea route to Russia's warm-water ports to help Britain's ally Russia with arms and supplies for the war on the Eastern Front and the Southern Front against the Austro-Hungarians and the Turks (both of which were tying up Russian troops that Britain felt would be better served fighting the Germans and helping British efforts on the Western Front)
3) relieve/remove the Ottoman threat upon the British controlled Suez Canal, the loss of which would have been a significant strategic disaster, both for Britain and Australia.

None of those are good reasons. We are sold that the diggers had to sacrifice their lives at Gallipoli to “fight for freedom”, which is nonsense.

And the first line “Australia was a part of the British Empire”. Just like with Jan 26 can we start developing an Australian identity and culture that isn’t being lick spittle to an empire?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Rubbish.. an ultra minority will march tomorrow, the rest who don’t will go about their business… the best thing every year is seeing immigrants to this country celebrating Australia with multi generational Australians and indigenous people


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

LOL you measure the depth of opposition to the date nationwide by how many people march.

 

[Goroyals22]

The typical crowd that get ”patriotic” on the day are overwhelminly white and Anglo. Non white migrants don’t get “patriotic”, and as we’ve established most Australians just treat it as another day off.

Wow… so the races that are in the majority you mean.. ground braking news there


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Goroyals22]

LOL you measure the depth of opposition to the date nationwide by how many people march.

As do those who measure the depth of support by flags or clothing


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

As do those who measure the depth of support by flags or clothing

Whatevs. My point is these criteria are irrelevant.

You said a majority prefer to keep it on 26th Jan, which is true.

I said a “sizeable minority” want to change the date.

41% is a sizeable minority in anyone’s book.

53% of Australians aged 18-34 want to change the date.

That’s the next generation.

So suggestions that support for changing the date is waning are selective at the very least.

A bit of nuance can be found here:

Support for changing date of Australia Day softens, but remains strong among young people: new research

A new survey shows a solidifying of views on the Australia Day date across the country, but young people remain in favour of changing it.

theconversation.com

 

[Deliverance]

I think very few care about the date. Most just don't want to be told that it needs to change.and don't like references to invasion day and the protesting. I am not saying which side is right or wrong. it's just the way things currently are.

The sooner those that want the date change realise that, the more chance they have of the a date change happening.

Are people really that precious? Thats ****ed up if thats the case, and makes me lose faith in humanity a bit. "I don't want to change something that is genuinely traumatising to a large cohort of people, because they protest about it" surely people aren't that stupid and selfish, or am I underestimating the ineptitude of some humans.

What's the alternative to protesting? First Peoples have almost zero political power. How else will it change? I don't know why a govenrment can't just make the change without consultation. I don't remember any consultation in 1994 when it first became a national day.

Anyway, I'm off to the rally. Come and join us BF

 

[Juddism]

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/pics-prove-huge-australia-day-truth/image-gallery/57b7846340d81a4ebb81c9eb0f432701?page=5

We’ve come a long way…seriously, if the day were that important we’d be doing a better job of it than this. It’s absolutely cringe worthy and embarrassing.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/pics-prove-huge-australia-day-truth/image-gallery/57b7846340d81a4ebb81c9eb0f432701?page=5

We’ve come a long way…seriously, if the day were that important we’d be doing a better job of it than this. It’s absolutely cringe worthy and embarrassing.

Not a website I spend a lot of time on but they seem a little over-anxious to make their point!

 

[Juddism]

Not a website I spend a lot of time on but they seem a little over-anxious to make their point!

Me either, but it’s pretty true, at least I can go to Springvale lunar festival today and get some real culture.

 

[Cmarsh]

I think change the date out of respect for indigenous Australians.

Maybe a panel of indigenous Australians could put up a bunch of possible dates with the date to be decided on by a national poll.

Wouldn't work. One because there has already been much discussion about alternate dates and nothing is really feasible.

 

[Cmarsh]

The typical crowd that get ”patriotic” on the day are overwhelminly white and Anglo. Non white migrants don’t get “patriotic”, and as we’ve established most Australians just treat it as another day off.

So explain how non white migrants often speak of their love for Australia when deciding to become a citizen?

 

[Gough]

Everyone is free to mark the day as they wish unless Dutton gets in and he makes it mandatory.

 

[Sttew]

The typical crowd that get ”patriotic” on the day are overwhelminly white and Anglo. Non white migrants don’t get “patriotic”, and as we’ve established most Australians just treat it as another day off.

That is utter rubbish. You never went to an Australia Day parade?

 

[Boxo004]

Everyone is free to mark the day as they wish unless Dutton gets in and he makes it mandatory.

in a free democratic country you still can. Don’t be an alarmist. Happy Australia Day

 

[Boxo004]

Me either, but it’s pretty true, at least I can go to Springvale lunar festival today and get some real culture.

Yet having the ability to be able to do that is part of what makes this country so great.

 

[Roylion]

None of those are good reasons.

The Australian government in 1914 thought they were very good reasons to become involved in World War I. As I said, the Australian government regarded Britain, and the wider British Empire as being part of their ‘national interests’. Australia’s security in the Far East in 1914 was tied up with Britain’s naval dominance and therefore the Australian government was keen not to see British naval power diminished through Germany's pursuit of a policy of 'Weltpolitik' where they wanted to create a colonial empire to rival those of other powers and especially Britain.

Britain was also not considered by the vast majority of Australians to be a foreign power in 1914. For example 20% of all those who enlisted in the First AIF were British born. Most people in Australia regarded themselves as British subjects, which at the time was the only civic status that existed.

And clearly the Australian government did consider it to be in the country's national interest for Britain to maintain the European balance of power, restrict German expansion and therefore protect the dominance of the British Empire.

And the first line “Australia was a part of the British Empire”.

Politically in 1914 Australia was a Dominion of the British Empire. The 1907 Imperial Conference had already decided to cease formally referring to self-governing British colonies as colonies and began referring to them as dominions. The 1926 Imperial Conference led to the Balfour Declaration that all dominions were equal in status to one another and to the United Kingdom. Until the Statute of Westminster of 1931 (which wasn’t ratified in Australia until 1942) Britain (via its’ Foreign Office) had responsibility for the defence and foreign affairs of the Dominions, which of course included the Commonwealth of Australia.

Initially, Dominions conducted their own trade policy, some limited foreign relations and had autonomous armed forces, although the British government claimed and exercised the exclusive power to declare wars. For example, Britain deemed her declaration of war against Germany in August 1914 to extend without the need for consultation to all dominions of the Empire.

That decision was confirmed by the Australian government anyway. "When the Empire is at war, so too is Australia at war". Culturally in 1914, Australia was essentially an outpost of Britain. Most Australians in 1914 saw Britain as "Home", even though they themselves may have been born in Australia. In 1914, 20% of Australia’s population was British born.

Just like with Jan 26 can we start developing an Australian identity and culture that isn’t being lick spittle to an empire?

We've done that already. I've explained the process of how that has been achieved several times already, some of which is above.

 

[Xtreme]

And the first line “Australia was a part of the British Empire”. Just like with Jan 26 can we start developing an Australian identity and culture that isn’t being lick spittle to an empire?

Instead of throwing darts at a dart board, we are throwing thongs at random targets. That's progress

STRAYA

 

[Lsta062]

I'll give GoRoyals this one. Lydia Thorpe is a horrible representative for indigenous people and the sooner she is removed from the public conscience, the better.

The sovereignty debate is a waste of time and energy for all parties involved. While I support the recognition and inclusion of indigenous people and culture, and wish for better outcomes for indigenous people in Australia, sovereignty is not something that should be entertained. One country, one constitution, one set of laws. Respect differences in culture by all means, and include at every opportunity where practical, but sovereignty is not the answer.

Lydia Thorpe wants a treaty similar to the one New Zealand, Canada, and the US have with their indigenous people. Australia's one of the only settler-colonial nations that does not have a recognised treaty with their indigenous people. The US constitution even recognises tribal sovereignty, meaning they have to an extent the same powers as federal and state governments to govern their own affairs (with the exception of what is mentioned in the constitution). Yeah, the US has used it to against them in the past, so it's not always a straightforward thing. However, it's a lot more than what the indigenous people have in Australia.

Not saying I always agree with Lydia btw, but the reality is that White Australia has never directly entered into a peace agreement with the First Nations people. For thousands of years, treaties are the way groups have shown willingness to coexist peacefully, so all that's left is that White Australia is still overpowering and controlling First Nations people until today.

After all that history of violence and not entering into a peace treaty after it, white Australians (as a collective) still refuse to change Australia Day to a day less traumatic for First Nations people. We even have Peter Dutton who wants to lock in January 26 as Australia Day, You know, the Australia Day that celebrates the establishment of the first British colony and the hoisting of the British flag. He also expressed that he will not stand in front of the Aboriginal flag either.

All this put together doesn't signify unification between White Australia and First Nations people. Perhaps white Australians cannot see it, but as a non-white Australian, this hostility is palpable. And then the lopsided dismissal of the Indigenous Voice to Parliament. All up, it doesn't look like White Australia is interested in establishing peace between itself and the First Nations people. It just looks like they want to control, and the growing resentment here towards First Nations people not wanting Australia Day on January 26 just clarifies this more.

 

[Cookie]

Change of date won't solve a thing. The haters and the vandals will still carry on.

 

[schneebly111]

The Australian government in 1914 thought they were very good reasons to become involved in World War I. As I said, the Australian government regarded Britain, and the wider British Empire as being part of their ‘national interests’. Australia’s security in the Far East in 1914 was tied up with Britain’s naval dominance and therefore the Australian government was keen not to see British naval power diminished through Germany's pursuit of a policy of 'Weltpolitik' where they wanted to create a colonial empire to rival those of other powers and especially Britain.

Britain was also not considered by the vast majority of Australians to be a foreign power in 1914. For example 20% of all those who enlisted in the First AIF were British born. Most people in Australia regarded themselves as British subjects, which at the time was the only civic status that existed.

And clearly the Australian government did consider it to be in the country's national interest for Britain to maintain the European balance of power, restrict German expansion and therefore protect the dominance of the British Empire.


Politically in 1914 Australia was a Dominion of the British Empire. The 1907 Imperial Conference had already decided to cease formally referring to self-governing British colonies as colonies and began referring to them as dominions. The 1926 Imperial Conference led to the Balfour Declaration that all dominions were equal in status to one another and to the United Kingdom. Until the Statute of Westminster of 1931 (which wasn’t ratified in Australia until 1942) Britain (via its’ Foreign Office) had responsibility for the defence and foreign affairs of the Dominions, which of course included the Commonwealth of Australia.

Initially, Dominions conducted their own trade policy, some limited foreign relations and had autonomous armed forces, although the British government claimed and exercised the exclusive power to declare wars. For example, Britain deemed her declaration of war against Germany in August 1914 to extend without the need for consultation to all dominions of the Empire.

That decision was confirmed by the Australian government anyway. "When the Empire is at war, so too is Australia at war". Culturally in 1914, Australia was essentially an outpost of Britain. Most Australians in 1914 saw Britain as "Home", even though they themselves may have been born in Australia. In 1914, 20% of Australia’s population was British born.




We've done that already. I've explained the process of how that has been achieved several times already, some of which is above.

That’s my point. All symbolism is weighted to the British Empire not an Australian culture. India was under British empire rule at that time too but managed to develop their own national day and Flag.

 

[schneebly111]

Anyway, I'm off to the rally. Come and join us BF

Would be interested if you reported back here later today with your experiences and what you observed at the rally, maybe even some pics if you feel willing?

Thanks

 

[Barrybran]

Lydia Thorpe wants a treaty similar to the one New Zealand, Canada, and the US have with their indigenous people. Australia's one of the only settler-colonial nations that does not have a recognised treaty with their indigenous people. The US constitution even recognises tribal sovereignty, meaning they have to an extent the same powers as federal and state governments to govern their own affairs (with the exception of what is mentioned in the constitution). Yeah, the US has used it to against them in the past, so it's not always a straightforward thing. However, it's a lot more than what the indigenous people have in Australia.

Not saying I always agree with Lydia btw, but the reality is that White Australia has never directly entered into a peace agreement with the First Nations people. For thousands of years, treaties are the way groups have shown willingness to coexist peacefully, so all that's left is that White Australia is still overpowering and controlling First Nations people until today.

After all that history of violence and not entering into a peace treaty after it, white Australians (as a collective) still refuse to change Australia Day to a day less traumatic for First Nations people. We even have Peter Dutton who wants to lock in January 26 as Australia Day, You know, the Australia Day that celebrates the establishment of the first British colony and the hoisting of the British flag. He also expressed that he will not stand in front of the Aboriginal flag either.

All this put together doesn't signify unification between White Australia and First Nations people. Perhaps white Australians cannot see it, but as a non-white Australian, this hostility is palpable. And then the lopsided dismissal of the Indigenous Voice to Parliament. All up, it doesn't look like White Australia is interested in establishing peace between itself and the First Nations people. It just looks like they want to control, and the growing resentment here towards First Nations people not wanting Australia Day on January 26 just clarifies this more.

The responses in this thread validate your thoughts but a treaty is not the answer. The answer is compassion. We need to empower indigenous people to take greater responsibility for issues affecting their people but it doesn't require separate legal status to achieve this.

 

[schneebly111]

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/pics-prove-huge-australia-day-truth/image-gallery/57b7846340d81a4ebb81c9eb0f432701?page=5

We’ve come a long way…seriously, if the day were that important we’d be doing a better job of it than this. It’s absolutely cringe worthy and embarrassing.

Have a close look at the image quality and the fashion sense in a lot of those pictures. I’d estimate most of them were taken 2010-2015. A lot of the fashion looks 2000s more than 2020s, and even in the file name of one of the photos reveals it was taken in 2011 rather than in recent years as the article tries to imply.