January 26th 2025

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Can we have a ban on people calling each other, or anyone else, fascists? Many have no real idea what it means but because it sounds like something baaaad, it’s thrown around when someone disagrees with an argument.
 
sooooo .... herald $cum hate hydrant and all round pond $cum [you may know him as andrew bolt] is comfortable keating and rudds statues have been decapitated ........ :think:
 

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Dogs_R_Us said:
Can we have a ban on people calling each other, or anyone else, fascists? Many have no real idea what it means but because it sounds like something baaaad, it’s thrown around when someone disagrees with an argument.
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Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou. Im sure decedents if the holocaust would agree that going to the tennis tonight is just as evil
 
Johnny Bananas said:
They spoke a lot about the suffering of their ancestors and the ongoing effects on their lives. A few spoke of the solidarity between themselves and other people who have endured suffering like the Palestinians. I think none of that would be very contentious to those who are neither for nor against the cause of First Nations sovereignty.

I suppose a couple of things stood out to me as potentially being contentious.

A few speakers were openly socialist, and spoke of the capitalist system as inherently colonial and exploitative of First Nations people. One went so far as to say everyone participating in the colonial capitalist system was making their living off the backs of Aboriginal people.

I don't think is incorrect exactly, as the Australian economy is indeed built on exploiting mineral and agricultural resources that were gained by a land being stolen, and the people living on that land either being massacred or sent to camps. But, the people who are here now have little choice but to make their living as best they can in a system they didn't create. I can see how people would feel annoyed hearing that their efforts to simply survive in the modern economy with all its cost of living pressures, make them exploiters.

Another speaker was angry that the colonial system had facilitated so much immigration that the country was now overpopulated, creating ecological problems. Some people will agree with that, though I don't, I think our resource-intensive way of living is more to blame for ecological issues, and the feelings of overcrowding are less about the overall number of people in Australia than about how we've failed to distribute the population over more than just the same 5-6 big cities.

My feelings aside, there are a lot of recent immigrants who are made to feel by mainstream discourse like they are at fault for current economic pressures because they emigrated here. Discussions around the downsides of immigration often don't take care to separate the architects of immigration policy from the immigrants themselves and treat them all as the problem. So I can see how recent immigrants would similarly see this as another group blaming them for having the audacity to exist here.

One speaker asked for a million dollars a year for every First Nations person. That simply isn't going to happen. I do think there's an argument for redress of stolen land and cultural destruction, and First Nations people should have more of a say in how money is spent for them than simply being dictated to by governments that were mostly voted in by non-FN people. But that level of spending just isn't going to happen.

But as I said before, this was all being said in a context of pain and trauma from the historical suffering of First Nations people and the problems they still have to live with today. The specific wording isn't that important, the broader points are, that the modern economy still runs on exploiting the environment and the land that was stolen, and First Nations people were never making those decisions or receiving much of the benefits.


Of course they are, and sometimes that's okay. Not every single time and space has to be about changing people's minds. Some events can be simply about centring and listening to First Nations peoples' perspectives, seeing as those perspectives are not given space in mainstream discourse on the other 364 days of the year.
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Thanks for taking the time to share all this. I can certainly see how some of the opinions would be contentious. The part I have highlighted would in my view be particularly contentious as it is often claimed that capitalism over the coarse of history has lifted more people out of poverty than any other economic system.
 
Boxo004 said:
Happy for you. In all honesty mate I hope you find inner peace.
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I have inner peace. I found that long ago. It is the tens of thousands of Aboriginals who don’t that I hurt for. It is those that are broken that I worry for.
 
Boxo004 said:
Happy for you. In all honesty mate I hope you find inner peace.
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This is why we need some sort of dialogue to sort this. It means **** all to most of us but it clearly does to others. Isn't this why we have governments? I'm just a Bigfooty dribbler though. Id just make it Nick Daicos' birthday so im out. As much as we say "What difference will a date change do?" do any people with European heritage really give a **** about January 26th personally apart from getting a day off after the Mens final of the AO? It just builds every year where its so divisive now its a waste of time
 
January should be a month we all enjoy with improved weather, holiday time and lots of sporting activities. However, i'll be glad to be working again, thankfully the Tennis will be over and the Australia day protesting imbeciles can find something else to whinge about next week. At the least the BBL was marginally better this year? Bring on the Footy! One month into the year and it hasn't been all that great now has it?
 

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South of the Yarra said:
As a Stolen Generation Aboriginal, today does cause me to pause for solemn reflection. I think about the brothers and sisters that I never saw again (deep research found they lived sad and tortured lives). I reflect on the fact my birth mother took her own life as her children were taken from her. I reflect on the physical and emotional pain I went through in the 'hell camps' and the incredible journey I have taken to get to where I am today. I reflect on the fact that I don't even know when I was born. I reflect on the little Aboriginal children who are in our families care and the many Aboriginal students we home school. Every day, I tell myself you are not doing enough, you must do more. I torture myself every day trying to figure out how we can close the gap and how we can empower Aboriginal people to take their lives back and be proud of who they are. So many beaten and battered. I pause and contemplate not to be a victim as it has been suggested in the last 5 pages, but to ensure we move forward and never repeat the mistakes of the past. It is fantastic to have a day to celebrate who we are as Australians and that may be many different things to many different people. It is great to have a day where we celebrate all that is great about our country. I just don't understand why it has to be on a date that causes so many Aboriginal people pain.
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Very well written post. I may not agree with you on some things, but the past has truely been horrendous to some.... Politics aside, I am glad you have found inner peace.
 
Cmarsh said:
Thanks for taking the time to share all this. I can certainly see how some of the opinions would be contentious. The part I have highlighted would in my view be particularly contentious as it is often claimed that capitalism over the coarse of history has lifted more people out of poverty than any other economic system.
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There are some obvious counterpoints to that claim, such as asking whether capitalism continues to deliver such a benefit, given inequality has increased significantly across Australia and all Western nations since 1980. And capitalism is not one unchanging ideology, it can be reformed to keep the benefits of markets and competition while reducing the level of inequality.

But regardless, that wasn't the point of the speaker's statement. Their point was that the system has been built on the past exploitation of First Nations people, and they're not wrong. Even for the industries that have little to do directly with agriculture or minerals, the investment in education and infrastructure that was required for that industry to thrive largely came from taxing the profits made from exploiting agricultural and mineral resources. We all live on land that was stolen.

Of course, that point can be made persuasively, or not persuasively. These rallies are not about persuading centrists though, as Pakenhamsaint correctly pointed out.
 
Kram said:
Source?
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He was there. Did a walk in the City AM, then the Main Street of his suburb, and then onto Torquay. Very busy poster.
 
Johnny Bananas said:
If we were changing the date, I'd support January 31. Why that date? No reason. Why does a public holiday have to commemorate any event if the point is just to enjoy a day off in summer? One day should be as good as another for that purpose.
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Throw ideas like this up with reasoning. Have a mature debate. Find a solution to please all parties
 
Johnny Bananas said:
There are some obvious counterpoints to that claim, such as asking whether capitalism continues to deliver such a benefit, given inequality has increased significantly across Australia and all Western nations since 1980. And capitalism is not one unchanging ideology, it can be reformed to keep the benefits of markets and competition while reducing the level of inequality.

But regardless, that wasn't the point of the speaker's statement. Their point was that the system has been built on the past exploitation of First Nations people, and they're not wrong. Even for the industries that have little to do directly with agriculture or minerals, the investment in education and infrastructure that was required for that industry to thrive largely came from taxing the profits made from exploiting agricultural and mineral resources. We all live on land that was stolen.

Of course, that point can be made persuasively, or not persuasively. These rallies are not about persuading centrists though, as Pakenhamsaint correctly pointed out.
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Effectively persuading the centre however may be needed to tip polling to a place where politicians take notice.
 
Johnny Bananas said:
If we were changing the date, I'd support January 31. Why that date? No reason. Why does a public holiday have to commemorate any event if the point is just to enjoy a day off in summer? One day should be as good as another for that purpose.
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Citing no particular reason to change to a certain date is not going to move the dial to persuade the majority of people who believe the current date should not change.
 

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January 26th 2025

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