January 26th 2025

[nobbyiscool]

The only alternative date I can see for Australia Day that's not New Years Day (Federation Day) and has any sort of meaning is the 9th July. This was the date when the Federation of Australia was signed off and given royal assent by the Queen. From this date, we were all going to be recognised as Australian. It was just a matter of waiting for the formalities after that.

You want to go from one date celebrating colonialism to another date that... celebrates colonialism?

Way to miss the point...

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

You want to go from one date celebrating colonialism to another date that... celebrates colonialism?

Way to miss the point...

So what can Australia celebrate as a nation?

 

[Goroyals22]

Well unless, you have a different concept of stolen- then yes, we are living on stolen land. Did we ask permission? Did we take it by force? Did we make equitable reparations?
Of course it won’t change that, nothing can return things to how they were- and as I already said above, then we work on other things that might help- such as changing from the date when the land was essentially stolen. Its recognition that we took it and in doing so changed their world and that by and large, hasn’t always been a good thing for their culture, so it’s not something lots of people find celebratory. Why would anyone want to celebrate on a day that you know causes pain to lots of people, or doesn’t sit easily with lots of people?

The land wasn’t stolen… you can’t own the land. If you wish it was lost in a battle… happens all the time in wars upto this day..

Same as if china came and then took over Australia … we lost to bad. You don’t get paid for losing . The whole land wasn’t stolen on Jan 26 so any day has the same problem.

Not one benefit comes from changing a date. It won’t improve outcomes at all. If you feel guilty then that’s on you. The rest of us will go on having a blast.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[nobbyiscool]

So what can Australia celebrate as a nation?

I already made my suggestion... We don't have anything that we, as a nation, can celebrate as a unified nation. (Unless you went near, but not on, the Apology, cos if you did it on the date you get extremist mouth breathers wrecking it with the opposite argument to 26 Jan.)

So I'd pick something completely new and arbitrary, I'd make it clear that it's completely new and arbitrary, and it's something from which we're going to attempt to create unity and new traditions and memories.

 

[Doc1763]

So what can Australia celebrate as a nation?

We can't, that's the aim of the exercise

 

[schneebly111]

You've had a couple of goes at this. Ernie Dingo didn't invent WTC but he helped to popularise it. There's no evidence that WTC was ubiquitous across indigenous tribes, but it has become a common belief that there was one ancient Aboriginal culture that needs to be preserved. Much of it is a modern invention.

Welcome to Country has been accepted and promoted without us thinking about it too much. The term was invented in the 1980s. It became a thing in the modern era after some scared hippies wanted approval to use some land for a festival.

WTC has morphed from a custom that some indigenous groups had hundreds of years ago, to a bunch of hippies seeking permission to hold a festival, to some kind of national virtue signalling meaningless ritual.

How a 50-year-old hippie festival sparked the Welcome to Country phenomenon

How thousands of hippies, sometimes stoned, often naked, helped usher Welcome to Country into mainstream Australia.

www.smh.com.au

Conservative lies about the Welcome put to bed here:

Modern ceremonies claim misleads on Indigenous history

Various social media posts are claiming Welcome to Country ceremonies are far from an ancient practice.

www.aap.com.au

But if you won’t listen to half a dozen historians and anthropologists your mind is already made up

 

[schneebly111]

The land wasn’t stolen… you can’t own the land. If you wish it was lost in a battle… happens all the time in wars upto this day..

Same as if china came and then took over Australia … we lost to bad. You don’t get paid for losing . The whole land wasn’t stolen on Jan 26 so any day has the same problem.

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

The “stolen” bit isn’t the main problem. That’s a crime of land theft, but it’s the injustices and trauma inflicted on indigenous people that were the main problem.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

You've had a couple of goes at this. Ernie Dingo didn't invent WTC but he helped to popularise it. There's no evidence that WTC was ubiquitous across indigenous tribes, but it has become a common belief that there was one ancient Aboriginal culture that needs to be preserved. Much of it is a modern invention.

Welcome to Country has been accepted and promoted without us thinking about it too much. The term was invented in the 1980s. It became a thing in the modern era after some scared hippies wanted approval to use some land for a festival.

WTC has morphed from a custom that some indigenous groups had hundreds of years ago, to a bunch of hippies seeking permission to hold a festival, to some kind of national virtue signalling meaningless ritual.

How a 50-year-old hippie festival sparked the Welcome to Country phenomenon

How thousands of hippies, sometimes stoned, often naked, helped usher Welcome to Country into mainstream Australia.

www.smh.com.au

Regardless of its history, it's beautiful. You'd have to be a terminal misanthrope to not enjoy the WTC.

FMD there are some old grouches on these pages.

 

[peetoo]

Regardless of its history, it's beautiful. You'd have to be a terminal misanthrope to not enjoy the WTC.

FMD there are some old grouches on these pages.

I enjoy it more knowing the miserguts people are triggered

 

[liz]

Regardless of its history, it's beautiful. You'd have to be a terminal misanthrope to not enjoy the WTC.

FMD there are some old grouches on these pages.

I always get a sense of being reminded that we are all just passing through, that we are custodians, not owners, just a part of what has come before and what (and who) will come long after we have departed.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Regardless of its history, it's beautiful. You'd have to be a terminal misanthrope to not enjoy the WTC.

FMD there are some old grouches on these pages.

The best WTC is the one they do before the Dreamtime game, the rest are a bit monotonous.

I suspect so because these WTC have invaded corporate work life, so they are a bit overdone IMO.

 

[liz]

I suspect so because these WTC have invaded corporate work life, so they are a bit overdone IMO.

Can you provide an illustration of a WTC invading corporate work life?

 

[Reg Grundy35]

The land wasn’t stolen… you can’t own the land. If you wish it was lost in a battle… happens all the time in wars upto this day..

Same as if china came and then took over Australia … we lost to bad. You don’t get paid for losing . The whole land wasn’t stolen on Jan 26 so any day has the same problem.

Not one benefit comes from changing a date. It won’t improve outcomes at all. If you feel guilty then that’s on you. The rest of us will go on having a blast.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

this garbage is why we have a problem

 

[Carringbush2010]

I already made my suggestion... We don't have anything that we, as a nation, can celebrate as a unified nation. (Unless you went near, but not on, the Apology, cos if you did it on the date you get extremist mouth breathers wrecking it with the opposite argument to 26 Jan.)

So I'd pick something completely new and arbitrary, I'd make it clear that it's completely new and arbitrary, and it's something from which we're going to attempt to create unity and new traditions and memories.

This post gives the impression that reconciliation cannot be achieved.

'We don't have anything that we can celebrate as a united nation '

So whatever this new and arbitrary pick is, do you think everyone of our indigenous sisters and brothers are just gonna 'Yeah no worries all the atrocities are forgotten and forgiven, we're now gonna adopt this new shiny thing with our non indigenous invaders in unison '?

Like some sort utopian camp fire kumbya.


People keep explaining and others refuse to listen.

The date will change but the lament will not unless there is genuine wish for unity, and it will take buy in and COMPROMISE from EVERYONE.

Sadly, there are some racist aholes on one side and some understandably terribly bitter people on the other that will never genuinely want unity.

Even more depressing is that people like this and their attitude is the only thing talked about.

 

[faible]

Can you provide an illustration of a WTC invading corporate work life?

I assume he means acknowledgement of country, doubt too many corporates have an actual welcome to country.

 

[liz]

I assume he means acknowledgement of country, doubt too many corporates have an actual welcome to country.

That was my guess too, but I didn’t want to assume.

It’s hard to imagine an acknowledgment of country being too intrusive given its brevity, but I wouldn’t expect to hear it in every corporate meeting. Maybe just those of some consequence and gravitas (like an AGM).

 

[Frank Bunn]

Conservative lies about the Welcome put to bed here:

Modern ceremonies claim misleads on Indigenous history

Various social media posts are claiming Welcome to Country ceremonies are far from an ancient practice.

www.aap.com.au

But if you won’t listen to half a dozen historians and anthropologists your mind is already made up

Did you even read the article that you linked to? It says the first contemporary Welcome to Country is thought to have been performed by Ernie Dingo and Richard Walley in 1976. They invented something when requested by a group of performers in order to satisfy their Polynesian spiritual beliefs. What Dingo and Walley performed was nothing like any ancient practices. As Dingo explains in the Guardian article -

if you were visiting the sparse mid-west country of Western Australia from which his people hail, you would first head up to a vantage point, perhaps a hill, and light a fire. “That plume of smoke would indicate that you had been sitting there. That’s just like the knock on the door.​

​

“You could be there for a day, you could be there for a week – until they’ve [worked] you out. They’ll know you’re there. They’ve seen the fire and when they’re ready they will send some young blokes up to get you.”​

Another of the linked articles makes it clear that not all tribes practiced a form of welcome and those that did had varying customs, including that a visitor might have underarm sweat rubbed on them and be provided with a temporary wife. There was also the implicit threat that those who were not welcomed were attacked.

 

[nobbyiscool]

This post gives the impression that reconciliation cannot be achieved.

'We don't have anything that we can celebrate as a united nation '

Have you forgotten the referendum already?

Currently reconciliation can't be achieved cos there's so little political or community will for it.

We wouldn't be having this argument every year if there was.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

with so much in the world to get shitty about why would people choose this. A totally harmless and positive ceremony. Only one reason really. They want these people out of their sight.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Can you provide an illustration of a WTC invading corporate work life?

Not sure about others but at my place of work we do welcome to countries/acknowledgement in slide packs for every single meeting. Alot of these meetings are not even done in person, they are on teams.

We also do smoking ceremonies for land developments prior to works commencing etc.

There are some days where i have done these 5 times a day or more. Not kidding.

Dont really see how these are relevant for a team's meeting.....

It's a bit much IMO. Way too saturated.

I dont mind the WTC though when there are large gatherings like sporting events etc, like i said the dreamtime one is great.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

That was my guess too, but I didn’t want to assume.

It’s hard to imagine an acknowledgment of country being too intrusive given its brevity, but I wouldn’t expect to hear it in every corporate meeting. Maybe just those of some consequence and gravitas (like an AGM).

yeah apologies WTC probably wrong term used by me.

i dont think doing an acknowledgement to country 5 times a day in teams' meetings plus things like smoking ceremonies is always relevant, and at times it feels way too overdone and saturated.

I am definitely a fan though of the WTC prior to big gatherings at sports events, like i have said the dreamtime WTC is a great spectacle.

I think the best way of doing it is that time we play the national anthem, we have the WTC. Outside of that i dont think we need to do anything.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I don't see why every speaker has to say an acknowledgement. The first speaker can say he/she speaks on behalf of the rest as well as the audience.

People giving a welcome to country would be better served by sounding genuinely welcoming.

If I remember rightly, the term "deadly" as used by Aboriginals in this sort of context is actually complimentary. But I stand to be corrected.

 

[schneebly111]

If these gronks were dumb enough to post it to social media imagine how much more sentiment like this is out there in the community:

EDIT: I’ve removed the direct link because I’ve realised it contains some abhorrent racial slurs visible in the picture. If you want to see the post search for “Dreamtime Aroha” on Facebook or Instagram. It depicts some young Australian men who have disgusting and hideous racist anti-Indigenous slurs written on their chests whilst “celebrating Australia Day”.

I have some extended family (who I’ve cut links to now) at previous Xmas gatherings would openly go on about how much they hate non white migrants in Australia, knowing full well I had many friends in some of those migrant groups.

If they were willing to say that in public in front of me think of what they would think in private

 

[peetoo]

If these gronks were dumb enough to post it to social media imagine how much more sentiment like this is out there in the community:

EDIT: I’ve removed the direct link because I’ve realised it contains some abhorrent racial slurs visible in the picture. If you want to see the post search for “Dreamtime Aroha” on Facebook or Instagram. It depicts some young Australian men who have disgusting and hideous racist anti-Indigenous slurs written on their chests whilst “celebrating Australia Day”.

I have some extended family (who I’ve cut links to now) at previous Xmas gatherings would openly go on about how much they hate non white migrants in Australia, knowing full well I had many friends in some of those migrant groups.

If they were willing to say that in public in front of me think of what they would think in private

Echo trumps recent exclaim ‘tattoos all over their faces’