MRP / Trib. Jeremy Cameron sent to tribunal - Harris Andrews incident - read Mod announcement at post #67

[Land of the Giants]

Reports in the media this morning that Harris Andrew suffered bleeding on the brain as a result of Jeremy's elbow. Hopefully he makes a full recovery.

But given Jeremy's record, we'll probably be without him for most of what's left of the season.

 

[Colonial]

Reports in the media this morning that Harris Andrew suffered bleeding on the brain as a result of Jeremy's elbow. Hopefully he makes a full recovery.

But given Jeremy's record, we'll probably be without him for most of what's left of the season.

Wish him all the best.

Can def see 5 to 6 weeks now.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[Determinant]

Reports in the media this morning that Harris Andrew suffered bleeding on the brain as a result of Jeremy's elbow. Hopefully he makes a full recovery.

But given Jeremy's record, we'll probably be without him for most of what's left of the season.

That's horrible for the kid, hope he makes a full and quick recovery

 

[Smartest Brain]

That's horrible for the kid, hope he makes a full and quick recovery

Hasn't Brisbane already lost another player to concussion related injuries? Andrews looked "alright" during the game so hopefully he can come back in a couple weeks and have no long term issues. Jonathan Brown could have had similar injuries doing what he used to do all the time, flying with the flight of the ball and risking his health. Takes courage to do it.

Still think Cameron has a good case, but with the MRP you never know what is going to happen.

 

[dlanod]

Hasn't Brisbane already lost another player to concussion related injuries?

Yeah, Justin Clarke retired after a heavy concussion and is still suffering symptoms years afterwards. He does a lot of work on concussion awareness and studies as he's also a very bright bloke (99.95 out of high school).

Andrews looked "alright" during the game so hopefully he can come back in a couple weeks and have no long term issues.

He got a lot worse overnight, hence the hospitalisation and discovery of the brain bleed.

Still think Cameron has a good case, but with the MRP you never know what is going to happen.

At a minimum I think it'll be considered reckless (no reason for elbows to be that high) so the four to six weeks seems to be about par.

 

[Smartest Brain]

At a minimum I think it'll be considered reckless (no reason for elbows to be that high) so the four to six weeks seems to be about par.

Well he does have a reason to have his elbows that high as he was trying to mark or spoil it. If you look at the replay it looks like his fists are closed so a spoil is more likely which does mean he knew a player was coming back to him before he actually looked at him directly. Players who go in the direction of the ball and then look away from the incoming players are always putting themselves at risk.

If they judge this too harshly for Cameron it is essentially opening up flying defenders to be the protected species. Hard to see what Cameron could have done here except not go for the ball. His arms are literally where the ball was going to go. Maybe he could have tucked his elbow more in the 0.05 seconds when he started to turn but yeah. What do you think Cameron should have done in this instance?

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Yeah, Justin Clarke retired after a heavy concussion and is still suffering symptoms years afterwards. He does a lot of work on concussion awareness and studies as he's also a very bright bloke (99.95 out of high school).



He got a lot worse overnight, hence the hospitalisation and discovery of the brain bleed.



At a minimum I think it'll be considered reckless (no reason for elbows to be that high) so the four to six weeks seems to be about par.

I dont think you can make deliberate. It was clumsy and careless, and at the worse end of that scale as I see it. My conclusion is similar though. Probably to the tribunal and I hope for 4 weeks.

Terrible injury to a brilliant young player. Given the club said scans will be done in 2 weeks I dont understand the reports that suggest him playing in two weeks.

Hopefully he's back soon with no ill effects though. It's horrible watching guys knocked out cold. To me it's worse than watching Broomehead or Sculls injuries. With a limb you kinda know it will heal eventually with little risk of permanent damage . With the brain there's no guarrantee.

 

[dlanod]

I dont think you can make deliberate. It was clumsy and careless, and at the worse end of that scale as I see it. My conclusion is similar though. Probably to the tribunal and I hope for 4 weeks.

I don't think it's deliberate but it does almost feel inevitable. Jeremy leaves his feet late to a contest too often to try and generate some body contact and while it's normally just a free kick or a 50, with hindsight something like this was probably going to happen soon or later.

Terrible injury to a brilliant young player. Given the club said scans will be done in 2 weeks I dont understand the reports that suggest him playing in two weeks.

I suspect the two week reports were a guess at after the game on Saturday, before his hospitalisation and diagnosis of a brain bleed afterwards that has moved the timeframe to extra scans in two weeks.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

I don't think it's deliberate but it does almost feel inevitable. Jeremy leaves his feet late to a contest too often to try and generate some body contact and while it's normally just a free kick or a 50, with hindsight something like this was probably going to happen soon or later.



I suspect the two week reports were a guess at after the game on Saturday, before his hospitalisation and diagnosis of a brain bleed afterwards that has moved the timeframe to extra scans in two weeks.

I think after the Mathieson incident and the remedial training Jezza did seem to improve his techique a lot in the 2 1/2 years since. I get that was mostly about bumping and tackling though. Being aware of and having the technique to join aerial contests safely was hopefully part of it. If not he'll have some more time to correct it.

There was a report this morning he'd be back in 2 weeks, but it could just be a journalist not keeping up to date. Cant imagine anyone knows at this stage.

 

[Determinant]

I don't think it's deliberate but it does almost feel inevitable. Jeremy leaves his feet late to a contest too often to try and generate some body contact and while it's normally just a free kick or a 50, with hindsight something like this was probably going to happen soon or later.



I suspect the two week reports were a guess at after the game on Saturday, before his hospitalisation and diagnosis of a brain bleed afterwards that has moved the timeframe to extra scans in two weeks.

I agree, he's screwed, 4 - 6 weeks would be a good result in my mind, better than that and he is extremely lucky, worse and the media have taken over the judiciary.
The AFL has been extremly consistent about protecting the head.
It was clearly not a deliberate act, but at best they will almost certainly grade it reckless and the impact was clearly severe.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

https://t.co/ac2aVJgfzC?amp=1

Well I dont get intentional but it is what it is

 

[Smartest Brain]

I agree, he's screwed, 4 - 6 weeks would be a good result in my mind, better than that and he is extremely lucky, worse and the media have taken over the judiciary.
The AFL has been extremly consistent about protecting the head.

What do you think Cameron should have done in this instance to avoid contact with Andrews? Hindsight is always 20/20 but I'm interested what people would have done in Cameron's shoes. Take away Andrews from this and Camerons position allows him to take an easy chest mark, he was in good position.

Cameron and Andrews both leave the ground at the same time, maybe Cameron a bit earlier, and if Andrews misses the ball, Cameron tucks his arm, what is to say Andrews doesn't elbow Cameron in the head? His arm is seen swinging right for Camerons head before Cameron's arm makes contact first.

I understand people like to outrage over acts which end with someone knocked out but it is just hard to see what Cameron should have done here except gone soft at it. Why doesn't Andrews have a duty of care to himself and the players he turns his head away from, he knew they were there because he looked before jumping.

 

[Determinant]

What do you think Cameron should have done in this instance to avoid contact with Andrews? Hindsight is always 20/20 but I'm interested what people would have done in Cameron's shoes. Take away Andrews from this and Camerons position allows him to take an easy chest mark, he was in good position.

Cameron and Andrews both leave the ground at the same time, maybe Cameron a bit earlier, and if Andrews misses the ball, Cameron tucks his arm, what is to say Andrews doesn't elbow Cameron in the head? His arm is seen swinging right for Camerons head before Cameron's arm makes contact first.

I understand people like to outrage over acts which end with someone knocked out but it is just hard to see what Cameron should have done here except gone soft at it. Why doesn't Andrews have a duty of care to himself and the players he turns his head away from, he knew they were there because he looked before jumping.

Not my expertise at all mate, fwiw I think the change in approach has to be taken at the start of the move rather than in the milliseconds before impact, his right arm appears more shaped for a bump than a marking attempt, altering that once hurtling through the air quite likely impossible.
No doubt it will be argued fully in front of the tribunal

 

[dlanod]

Camerons position allows him to take an easy chest mark

Except watching his hands, he was always intending to spoil, not to mark - clenched fists from the moment he left the ground.

Looking at it from side on, you can see why he was going to spoil - he knew he was too far away to realistically contest the mark.

It could've been worse, Cameron did try and pull out when it became obvious he wasn't going to make it in time, but he didn't drop his arm in time (instead he moved it across his body to protect himself, leaving his elbow up) and the focus of the MRP/tribunal has been head, head, head.

 

[Smartest Brain]

Not my expertise at all mate, fwiw I think the change in approach has to be taken at the start of the move rather than in the milliseconds before impact, his right arm appears more shaped for a bump than a marking attempt, altering that once hurtling through the air quite likely impossible.
No doubt it will be argued fully in front of the tribunal

Fairly? Interstate players nearly always get shafted at the tribunal.

Will be interesting, I can see Cameron getting off or maybe a week or two (due to outrage).

I just can't see what you would coach Cameron here to do except go soft at it because there is a defender being careless. If you favour people being careless then you favour more head contact ala Joel Selwood and his constant ducking and arm lifting so he gets hit in the head. The AFL is trying to eradicate such acts.

The only coaching opportunity I see here is to educate Andrews to not be so careless when he goes back, you shouldn't expect forwards to not hit the contest because you are being courageous. Even though I know a lot of players these days do go soft when they see a player with his eyes only on the ball and not the contest.

Andrews ends up messed up in multiple scenarios that are 100% legal in AFL, if Cameron was 0.1s more advanced in time he would be marking the ball on his chest and his knees would have smashed into Andrews ribs.

 

[Smartest Brain]

Except watching his hands, he was always intending to spoil, not to mark - clenched fists from the moment he left the ground.

Looking at it from side on, you can see why he was going to spoil - he knew he was too far away to realistically contest the mark.

Except if you follow the line of the ball where Cameron is he would have been able to take it on the chest, not saying he would have in this instance because you are right, his closed fists looks like he thought he would be late and wanted to spoil. Which he has a right to do.

It could've been worse, Cameron did try and pull out when it became obvious he wasn't going to make it in time, but he didn't drop his arm in time (instead he moved it across his body to protect himself, leaving his elbow up) and the focus of the MRP/tribunal has been head, head, head.

The problem is Camerons arms were in position to spoil the ball exactly where it was going to be, but Andrews spoils it before it arrives and then Cameron notices the incoming contact. This is the only point Cameron has any say in what happens next and it is like 0.05 seconds or so of time. Not enough for a decent reaction IMO. If Andrews misses the ball, the ball hits Camerons fists and Andrews still gets knocked out. The latter case would likely not even see Cameron get booked because he was first to the ball".

Do you coach Cameron to not go for the ball or Andrews to not take his eyes off the contest and fly into the unknown? I think the latter. The free kick for looking at your opponent is better than losing your health in a severe way.

 

[dlanod]

You lost me when you started saying Cameron was right to go for the ball but Andrews wasn't.

 

[teddies]

I genuinely don't think Cameron's act was intentional and think the MRO seriously ****ed up grading it as such. The stigma associated with such a grading given the act caused Andrews to acquire a clinically significant brain injury is enormous.

Nevertheless, you can't approach the contest like that. There's a fine line between being hard at the contest and respecting your responsibilities of duty of care. Cameron erred in this regard.

 

[Clarkythelion]

What do you think Cameron should have done in this instance to avoid contact with Andrews? Hindsight is always 20/20 but I'm interested what people would have done in Cameron's shoes. Take away Andrews from this and Camerons position allows him to take an easy chest mark, he was in good position.

Cameron and Andrews both leave the ground at the same time, maybe Cameron a bit earlier, and if Andrews misses the ball, Cameron tucks his arm, what is to say Andrews doesn't elbow Cameron in the head? His arm is seen swinging right for Camerons head before Cameron's arm makes contact first.

I understand people like to outrage over acts which end with someone knocked out but it is just hard to see what Cameron should have done here except gone soft at it. Why doesn't Andrews have a duty of care to himself and the players he turns his head away from, he knew they were there because he looked before jumping.

He could have put both hands up and tried to actually mark the ball rather than aiming the cocked elbow and trying to kill someone. He might have even tried to put one arm up, extend it and try to punch the ball rather than cocking the elbow and looking away when contact was eminent. 6 weeks will be about 2 weeks too little.

 

[Smartest Brain]

He could have put both hands up and tried to actually mark the ball rather than aiming the cocked elbow and trying to kill someone. He might have even tried to put one arm up, extend it and try to punch the ball rather than cocking the elbow and looking away when contact was eminent. 6 weeks will be about 2 weeks too little.

Would you coach your kid to do what Andrews did? Or what J Brown used to do? I wouldn't. Better to have a long career than risk killing yourself by "watching the ball" instead of determining if there are likely impacts.

 

[Clarkythelion]

Would you coach your kid to do what Andrews did? Or what J Brown used to do? I wouldn't.

I coach kids to go for the ball, not the man. To win and win fairly not at any cost. I'd coach kids to respect people and respect life. I coach kids to care, show respect, have manners and not take their skill and success for granted and to remember other kids not as talented will copy them. i'd teak kids to know right from wrong, to call out cowards and not defend the indefensible. The AFL have called it as it was, INTENTIONAL. He aimed and connected with his elbow without trying to do anything else. You won't make the finals now so you best put the blame on your own player rather than try to blame some poor kid laying in hospital with bleeding on the brain.

 

[Smartest Brain]

I coach kids to go for the ball, not the man. To win and win fairly not at any cost. I'd coach kids to respect people and respect life. I coach kids to care, show respect, have manners and not take their skill and success for granted and to remember other kids not as talented will copy them. i'd teak kids to know right from wrong, to call out cowards and not defend the indefensible. The AFL have called it as it was, INTENTIONAL. He aimed and connected with his elbow without trying to do anything else. You won't make the finals now so you best put the blame on your own player rather than try to blame some poor kid laying in hospital with bleeding on the brain.

Just because he is lying in the hospital doesn't make him blameless in the contact that happened. If he was better positioned he wouldn't have had to run with the ball and jump with the ball, turning his head and putting his body at risk.

If Cameron was 0.1s more advanced he would have marked the ball over Andrews and Andrews would have had his ribs crushed at best, and ribs and head damaged at worst. Regardless of what happens to Cameron with his punishment players should learn to not risk their health in dangerous ways like Andrews did here. I would say the same of J Brown and anyone who does something courageous that is one step from killing themselves over a game.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Jonas got 6 weeks for a less dangerous act where, I think it was Gaff? played the next week. Left ground with fist clenched and cocked arm at the head whilst looking at the victim - gone.

I find it sickening that anyone could try and shift or apportion blame to Harris Andrews, he doesn't expect an elbow/forearm to his head when fairly contesting the ball.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

I coach kids to go for the ball, not the man. To win and win fairly not at any cost. I'd coach kids to respect people and respect life. I coach kids to care, show respect, have manners and not take their skill and success for granted and to remember other kids not as talented will copy them. i'd teak kids to know right from wrong, to call out cowards and not defend the indefensible. The AFL have called it as it was, INTENTIONAL. He aimed and connected with his elbow without trying to do anything else. You won't make the finals now so you best put the blame on your own player rather than try to blame some poor kid laying in hospital with bleeding on the brain.

I have three problems with your posts.

1. Stating Jezza tried to kill someone is bullshit of the highest order. You should be ashamed of yourself.
2. There is in fact no decision from the Tribunal. There is currently an assessment from the MRO that it's a serious matter. Few on this board are disputing that.
3. You in fact have no idea if we'll play finals. That sentence just removes any credibility you might have had.

 

[Smartest Brain]

Jonas got 6 weeks for a less dangerous act where, I think it was Gaff? played the next week. Left ground with fist clenched and cocked arm at the head whilst looking at the victim - gone.

I find it sickening that anyone could try and shift or apportion blame to Harris Andrews, he doesn't expect an elbow/forearm to his head when fairly contesting the ball.

No one with a sane mind would say it is "good" to fly backwards into a contest with no eyes on what is going to happen when the ball is at marking range. Andrews did that here. And like I already said if Cameron is only 0.1 seconds more advanced in his movement he would have marked over Andrew's head and collected him even worse than he did here and no one would say a thing about Cameron being at fault. How is that good for Andrews either way?