"Jobe Watson never cheated" - Hird

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LoungeLizard said:
You'd have access to these records then, dig them up and let us all look at them.
Now don't run away boyo.
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well, just recently we have had the 30 testing missions, 30 approaches, 30, 30 times and we know now the absolute bulk of them are just bunkum to do with finding the players guilty, yet it was the cornerstone of the verdict.

Why would i run away, when quite clearly the CAS verdict was a farce.

Its guys like you who will eventually run away

4 to 5 years on this board running around in your little circle jerk club and now slowly but surely we will find this verdict was made on extremely flimsy circumstantial evidence, that will not stand the test of time or fairness.

Watson did not cheat or lie
 
Garlic muncher said:
well, just recently we have had the 30 testing missions, 30 approaches, 30, 30 times and we know now the absolute bulk of them are just bunkum to do with finding the players guilty, yet it was the cornerstone of the verdict.

Why would i run away, when quite clearly the CAS verdict was a farce.

Its guys like you who will eventually run away

4 to 5 years on this board running around in your little circle jerk club and now slowly but surely we will find this verdict was made on extremely flimsy circumstantial evidence, that will not stand the test of time or fairness.

Watson did not cheat or lie
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Facts are in.

Essendon 34 are cheats and took performance enhancing drugs.

Time you came to terms with reality.
 

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Hird Is Scum said:
“I don’t think it will change the perception of what we think of Jobe and, in actual fact, I think it builds the legend that he is becoming.”
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Legend is a big word somehow. Even without the supplements controversy he would "only" be a Brownlow medalist. Nothing more. Would anybody habe him in his best team of the last 10 years?


The only legend I see in this is a now tainted legend disgracing himself by creating this legend of "Watson the clean-handed"...
 
Garlic muncher said:
well, just recently we have had the 30 testing missions, 30 approaches, 30, 30 times and we know now the absolute bulk of them are just bunkum to do with finding the players guilty, yet it was the cornerstone of the verdict.

Why would i run away, when quite clearly the CAS verdict was a farce.

Its guys like you who will eventually run away

4 to 5 years on this board running around in your little circle jerk club and now slowly but surely we will find this verdict was made on extremely flimsy circumstantial evidence, that will not stand the test of time or fairness.

Watson did not cheat or lie
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Well you will have those records to back this up them, please show us, because last i heard, there are no records.
Why would they have records of dates and not the substance?
And you actually believe it.
Tell me why the legals only appealed on a technicality?
If the Cas made an error in judgement, wouldn't they appeal that?
 
Bombfire said:
Are you in that mob that believe all 34 players deliberately withheld information on the doping control form?
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I'm in the mob that questions why all this new evidence wasn't presented to clear the players when they were in the process of fighting to clear their names?
If Chip has this info why didn't the silks respresenting the players have it?
 
LoungeLizard said:
Well you will have those records to back this up them, please show us, because last i heard, there are no records.
Why would they have records of dates and not the substance?
And you actually believe it.
Tell me why the legals only appealed on a technicality?
If the Cas made an error in judgement, wouldn't they appeal that?
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The Swiss Court didn't even consider the appeal because the 34 were forced to accept the jurisdiction of CAS. The whole thing was farcical and WADA and ASADA knew it. So there was no appeal, WADA got a denovo which then allowed CAS to hang the 34 based on flimsy evidence.
 
Boxhead_31 said:
I'm in the mob that questions why all this new evidence wasn't presented to clear the players when they were in the process of fighting to clear their names?
If Chip has this info why didn't the silks respresenting the players have it?
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It's CAS's fault Essendons lawyers were shit.

(I mean they should have known that after their absolutely pathetic court cases but whatever)
 
Boxhead_31 said:
I'm in the mob that questions why all this new evidence wasn't presented to clear the players when they were in the process of fighting to clear their names?
If Chip has this info why didn't the silks respresenting the players have it?
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That mob is not very big and was continually over ridden by mob baying for blood and the hysteria from the media, initially AFL and the regular posters from boards like this.
 

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Bombfire said:
The Swiss Court didn't even consider the appeal because the 34 were forced to accept the jurisdiction of CAS. The whole thing was farcical and WADA and ASADA knew it. So there was no appeal, WADA got a denovo which then allowed CAS to hang the 34 based on flimsy evidence.
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The Swiss court didn't consider the appeal, because the appeal had no merit.
Why did it come out that the legals said they were happy with the hearing, you would think if the CAS made an error in judgement, they certainly wouldn't be happy.
 
Garlic muncher said:
That mob is not very big and was continually over ridden by mob baying for blood and the hysteria from the media, initially AFL and the regular posters from boards like this.
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There are a few mobs.
one is baying for blood.
one hates cheats.
one wants to believe the players were duped.
one is a Bruce Francis admirer, this is the one you fit into.
 
LoungeLizard said:
I demonstrated your point did i?
Your point was incorrect.
He also used the term "Thymomodulin" at Essendon, so where are the invoices, anyone with half a brain could dig them up if he used it.
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You are stubbornly refusing to acknowledge the point. My point is that he discussed the use of thymomodulin, specifically, on Trengove, and this completely refutes the cornerstone of the CAS judgement, the assumption that the thymosin at Essendon must have been TB4 because thymomodulin would never have been used on footballers.
The absence of invoices etc goes to the heart of where Dank was sourcing his peptides, and this is the essence of his irresponsible, and possibly criminal, behaviour. Where he was sourcing his peptides is the probable reason for the lack of invoices and other documentation that prevented the players from proving their innocence, which they should never have been required to do. But their absence was part of the perception that Jobe referred to in his Brownlow letter last week, and was part of the "strands in a cable" BS that CAS relied on.
 
60sbomber said:
You are stubbornly refusing to acknowledge the point. My point is that he discussed the use of thymomodulin, specifically, on Trengove, and this completely refutes the cornerstone of the CAS judgement, the assumption that the thymosin at Essendon must have been TB4 because thymomodulin would never have been used on footballers.
The absence of invoices etc goes to the heart of where Dank was sourcing his peptides, and this is the essence of his irresponsible, and possibly criminal, behaviour. Where he was sourcing his peptides is the probable reason for the lack of invoices and other documentation that prevented the players from proving their innocence, which they should never have been required to do. But their absence was part of the perception that Jobe referred to in his Brownlow letter last week, and was part of the "strands in a cable" BS that CAS relied on.
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Ok, so we believe what dank says.
All or some?
Because Dank said he left all the records at the EFC.
Where are they?

If we believe Dank, then we must assume that the records were destroyed, why would they destroy them?
 
LoungeLizard said:
The Swiss court didn't consider the appeal, because the appeal had no merit.
Why did it come out that the legals said they were happy with the hearing, you would think if the CAS made an error in judgement, they certainly wouldn't be happy.
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Have you even been following this? Your ignorance of the facts surrounding the appeal is pathetic.
The process only allows for appeal to the Swiss Federal Court on procedural grounds. It does not allow an appeal to be upheld on the grounds that CAS made an error of judgement.
CAS made fundamental and demonstrable errors in its judgement, none of which could be challenged in an appeal.

If you want just one definitive example of this, para 129 (viii) of the CAS award (judgement) reads in part -
"....Players such as Mr. McVeigh, who said that he was told he was receiving Melatonan, did not, on his own vehement admission, experience any tanning effect from it, although that is one of its well known properties."
Wrong.
Melatonan helps the body to sleep (McVeigh had a newborn and was sleep deprived). It does not have tanning side effects. Melanotan, a different drug, not what McVeigh said he was having, has tanning side effects. McVeigh was disbelieved by CAS because they didn't know the difference.
Morons.
But it couldn't be challenged on appeal. Oh no. Only procedural matters. McVeigh has to live with his conviction despite CAS completely stuffing up its interpretation of his evidence.
 
Schauermann said:
Legend is a big word somehow. Even without the supplements controversy he would "only" be a Brownlow medalist. Nothing more. Would anybody habe him in his best team of the last 10 years?


The only legend I see in this is a now tainted legend disgracing himself by creating this legend of "Watson the clean-handed"...
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Would struggle to be in the 2nd list.
 
Schauermann said:
Legend is a big word somehow. Even without the supplements controversy he would "only" be a Brownlow medalist. Nothing more. Would anybody habe him in his best team of the last 10 years?


The only legend I see in this is a now tainted legend disgracing himself by creating this legend of "Watson the clean-handed"...
Click to expand...

Watson is much more than just a Brownlow medallist.
In an era when footballers are being maligned as poor role models, overpaid and self indulgent, Jobe stands out like a beacon.
He is not just a champion footballer, a great of the Essendon Football Club, but a champion human being. He is a leader and an inspiration to anyone who cares to view him in a fair minded way.
If you can't see that, or don't want to, it is your loss.
 
60sbomber said:
Watson is much more than just a Brownlow medallist.
In an era when footballers are being maligned as poor role models, overpaid and self indulgent, Jobe stands out like a beacon.
He is not just a champion footballer, a great of the Essendon Football Club, but a champion human being. He is a leader and an inspiration to anyone who cares to view him in a fair minded way.
If you can't see that, or don't want to, it is your loss.
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As a drug cheat, yep, he sure does. As a leader of the club, he should have been the front and centre of the ones speaking to ASADA, speaking to his club doctor. But nup, he just accepted that is was ok to receive more injections that he'd ever had as an AFL player as par for the course. I guess he was a leader - a leader who ensured the rest of his followers/teammates didn't ask too many questions either.
 
60sbomber said:
Have you even been following this? Your ignorance of the facts surrounding the appeal is pathetic.
The process only allows for appeal to the Swiss Federal Court on procedural grounds. It does not allow an appeal to be upheld on the grounds that CAS made an error of judgement.
CAS made fundamental and demonstrable errors in its judgement, none of which could be challenged in an appeal.

If you want just one definitive example of this, para 129 (viii) of the CAS award (judgement) reads in part -
"....Players such as Mr. McVeigh, who said that he was told he was receiving Melatonan, did not, on his own vehement admission, experience any tanning effect from it, although that is one of its well known properties."
Wrong.
Melatonan helps the body to sleep (McVeigh had a newborn and was sleep deprived). It does not have tanning side effects. Melanotan, a different drug, not what McVeigh said he was having, has tanning side effects. McVeigh was disbelieved by CAS because they didn't know the difference.
Morons.
But it couldn't be challenged on appeal. Oh no. Only procedural matters. McVeigh has to live with his conviction despite CAS completely stuffing up its interpretation of his evidence.
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Well i think if a decision has factual errors, it can be appealed.
If as you say they made a factual error, then i don't see why the legals didn't pick up on it.
 
Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

Move along people.
 
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Boxhead_31 said:
Why didn't the players produce it to disprove ASADA's claims against them?
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Firstly, ASADA had to prove the case against Essendon 34, and they failed. They then refused to appeal through the appropriate channel and collaborated with WADA to go verdict shopping and found CAS.
Secondly I don't have access to the defence submissions in the CAS.
Thirdly, ASADA won't provide the juicy bits of information about the 15 out of 34 tests under FOI and 340players unlikely to have kept personal records of when and where they were tested. They had no reason to, in 2012.

Over to you. Are you in that mob that believe all 34 players deliberately set out to withhold information on the doping control forms?
 
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