Joel Smith

[CyberKev]

He's 29 and he has money in the bank from past performances, but how does he continue to avoid closer scrutiny having performed poor to average for much of the last 18 months?

It amazes me that no shortage of Hawk tragics respond to poor showings by calling for our teenage players to be deported to Eastern Europe, but criticism of a veteran like Smith remains muted at best.

Even during his halcyon AA years, Smith would draw criticism (mainly from outside the club) for his less brilliant aspects (most specifically his dubious footskills); and it strikes me that his weaknesses are becoming more greatly magnified with each game.

I have precious little confidence when I see him running out of defence with the ball, his general decision making is worryingly suspect, and he even appears to have lost the capacity to impact physically in one-on-one contests.

That said, I'm not holding my breath that he'll be spending time out at Box Hill anytime soon.

 

[KingRich]

I'm not sure what the answer is with Smithy.

What does everyone think... Should he be traded?? and would we get much for him??

Should we keep him simply because we have a young side?? Is his form that bad that it warrants taking off the list to start with??

Personally he has always been a fave of mine. He is probably a victim of being in a poor team and poor backline at the moment. Realistically he plays his best footy off a flank and he is being forced to play deep or KP of late which he is serviceable but it is not his thing.

I think we have to be very careful that we maintain the balance between experience and youth in our side!

 

[Gary Shadforth]

I agree with everything you have written about Joel, CyberKev. Why has Smith retained his place in the side after the kids played such a big part in the win against the Tiges?

To my mind this is a big test of Clarko and the selectors in that they not have a mindset that seniority saves a player from being dropped to make way for a kid earning promotion from Box Hill. Smith is not part of the furniture!

 

[Philhawk]

I agree with everything you have written about Joel, CyberKev. Why has Smith retained his place in the side after the kids played such a big part in the win against the Tiges?

To my mind this is a big test of Clarko and the selectors in that they not have a mindset that seniority saves a player from being dropped to make way for a kid earning promotion from Box Hill. Smith is not part of the furniture!

Alas Gary we just can't get rid of our experienced players! We're stuck with them now for at least another few years, if only to provide experience for the youngsters. My Dad is a big fan of Joel's but yes, admittedly his form has pretty much gone un-noticed this whole year to be honest! I wish we still had Graham.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hopefully we'll see the emergance of Murphy soon, which should see pressure come onto our back six to keep their spots. Something we've been lacking for a while now.

 

[Binxy]

It amazes me that no shortage of Hawk tragics respond to poor showings by calling for our teenage players to be deported to Eastern Europe.

Eastern Europe's too good for 'em - I'm thinking deep South America....Tierra Del Fuego should do it.

 

[cs61]

Joel Smith has been pretty disapointing I agree.

Not sure how to look at it because he has been given some monster tasks, Pavlich, Tarrant etc.... he shouldn't really be asked to play on guys like that. I think he does a pretty good job defensively considering who he is up against.

However, his run is getting slower, his decision making and kicking is getting worse (not helped by no targets for him up field, and has no confidence in kicking long to our forwards).

This leads me to think that we may as well play Tom Murphy in Joel's position, and play Joel further up the ground.

In the games that Joel has looked most dangerous, and somewhere near his past self is when he is dashing closer to our forward line, from the wing in space kicking to a player. I remember the game against Brisbane last year when he ran further up the ground, and he ran in much more of a straight direction, and kicked longer.

So basically I think Joel has been very average this year, but he is too talented just to let go given our lack of experienced players, and need for midfield depth. So yeah, give Murphy the opportunity he needs for the last 5-6 weeks once we are out of the finals race, and move Joel up the ground and play him either off the bench in bursts in the midfield, or start him on the wing/forward flank.

 

[Herbs hawks]

Smiths form hasn't been great but this year, no arguments, but, he has had KPP jobs and he is a Flanker at best. I am sure it doesn't help when he looks up and see's nothing to kick to. I feel this has a fair bit to do with his chip kicking and proceved poor decision making.

He would go alot better on a wing or HHF where he could attack the goals a little more. Worth a go when we have only kicked a handfull of goals in a few games this year.


EDIT: Bugger cschreuder you beat me by 2 minutes

 

[Boyler_Room]

Joel wont ever play well in a team that floods. He has to look up and see someone to kick to. His best work is done running through the traffic in the centre and looking up to a forward line with players in it.

 

[RustyHawk]

Great reads.

Not fair to "trade him"

Should have been his "testimonial year" ie big hint to finish up.

Agree with CS that with older players in established positions who are now struggling to relive that old form game after game, should be moved to a new position. We dont judge them on their old performances and let them have a bit of life playing something new.

 

[Nightwolf]

I reckon he cops a bit of unfair critism. The bloke is nothing more than a 3rd tall or a backman that takes a medium tall. He is being almost forced to play on people that are likely to take him to the cleaners. His start to the season was excellant. In fact, all his great games have come from him playing on the right opponent (take Milburn and Robertson for example)...

Last year he gave us something extra when he was thrown in the middle when he seemed to be struggling. AC should do this again, but seems to be restriced with lack of backmen (Jacobs out doesnt help either)... Dawson and Murphy should be playing in order to realease Smithy...

He hasnt been great, but i could count quite a few more whos been worse..

 

[Gilbert_Hodge]

I reckon he cops a bit of unfair critism. The bloke is nothing more than a 3rd tall or a backman that takes a medium tall. He is being almost forced to play on people that are likely to take him to the cleaners. His start to the season was excellant. In fact, all his great games have come from him playing on the right opponent (take Milburn and Robertson for example)...

Last year he gave us something extra when he was thrown in the middle when he seemed to be struggling. AC should do this again, but seems to be restriced with lack of backmen (Jacobs out doesnt help either)... Dawson and Murphy should be playing in order to realease Smithy...

He hasnt been great, but i could count quite a few more whos been worse..

A tall!?!?! The man is no tall.

 

[Robber Baron]

Joel Smith is a gun player and he is not criticised by the coaches because he is doing the job they want each week. He is an integral part of the back line and we are suffering because the younger players dont have the experience and we are missing Jacobs to help him.

Smith is still our most skilled defender and is a great kick and the leader down back. He is a great player that is loyal to Hawthorn. He could have gone to Colingwood but was loyal and stayed. He is missing out on playing finals this year, but will surely be around in a few years when we start winning premiership flags.

 

[CyberKev]

Joel Smith is a gun player

I'd say its definitely a case of 'was' not 'is' here.

Smith is still our most skilled defenderand isa great kickand the leader down back.

It would explain a lot were these statements true, but - frankly - I don't agree with either of them.

 

[DannyJ]

Smith is in our best 10 players. Claiming he is not in our best 22 is a joke!

 

[cs61]

As one of our senior players, he's definately been disapointing.

Yes, as I said earlier that he has been given some massive tasks, so in that sense he's done ok defensively, but has been one of our worst offenders when moving the ball out of the backline.

He was our vice-captain last year, Vanders got bagged a lot but Smith was no better, and we deserved more from him in terms of leadership.

I still think he's in our best 22, but do not like him, and never have done, deep in defence, where despite the fact he tries hard, really doesn't offer as much as he could.

Nightwolf said others have been worse, and I agree with him, but the point is what we expect from Joel given his experience and our sides in experience.

As CK said, he used to be a gun, an almost our most reliable kick if not the most reliable, but these days I hate it when he's coming out of our defensive 50.

He's much better attacking into our forward 50 where he is a very smart player still, even though he has lost some of his vintage pace and skill, where in defence it is becoming more and more important.

 

[burner1]

To me smithy has become a bit of a 'tweener' too slow and too poor footskills to be a permanent flanker yet cant play on the bigger fwds. His lack of pace to me is the biggest worry as he now tries to hide it by stopping, propping, doubling back then kickin sideways (which kills any drive out of the backline) when he should be attempting to take people on and break the lines.
In todays football versatility and footskills are key. As a defender joel smith doesnt have this anymore.

Seems to go alright in congestion as is strong through the hips and can break tackles so the only spot i can really see him longterm is part of the midfield rotation. Have advocated on other posts that he should be tried as a defensive midfielder/tagger ie would be a good matchup on tallish midfielders who due to their marking ability cause problems for shorter taggers when drifting forward ie cornes etc.

Thoughts on Joel Smith as a tagger?

 

[haydnoconnor]

I agree with DannyJ!

The last couple of years Smith held up our backline and is still a pivotal cog in our side

 

[HAWKS HEROES]

will be his 200th game against the crows

 

[buddy23]

I wish he'd cut his hair.

 

[HAWKS HEROES]

i think he did but it is growing again

 

[CyberKev]

Eastern Europe's too good for 'em - I'm thinking deep South America....Tierra Del Fuego should do it.

I'm about one more Port/St Kilda type horror showing away from deporting myself to Tierra Del Fuego!

I reckon they'd probably have a mid-table standard beach volleyball side that I could get behind.

 

[Books]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.... Two years ago Collingwood were offering him big money but he showed loyalty and stayed. I was very happy at the time that he had stayed with us. We then traded picks 10 and 37 to Collingwood for pick 7 plus Bo Nixon. Maybe in hindsight if we had given them Smith instead of pick 10 and then used pick 10 on Cameron Wood...... well, who knows, it's all hypothetical now.
Let's hope Smith comes good and gives us something for the rest of the year. After that, if we could trade him I'd probably take a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Otherwise I'd feel obliged to give him another year to reward his loyalty to us.

 

[Fastback]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.... Two years ago Collingwood were offering him big money but he showed loyalty and stayed. I was very happy at the time that he had stayed with us. We then traded picks 10 and 37 to Collingwood for pick 7 plus Bo Nixon. Maybe in hindsight if we had given them Smith instead of pick 10 and then used pick 10 on Cameron Wood...... well, who knows, it's all hypothetical now.
Let's hope Smith comes good and gives us something for the rest of the year. After that, if we could trade him I'd probably take a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Otherwise I'd feel obliged to give him another year to reward his loyalty to us.

Smith is good for us when we play attacking footy and not keepings off in the defensive 50. He plays his best footy when he runs off an opponent and kicks long. The current Hawthorn game plan is forcing many players to look for the short option first, panic second. If, by some miracle, we play long and direct andput pressure on the opposition, players like Roughy, Smith and Croad will be able to play their natural games.

 

[Boyler_Room]

Smith is good for us when we play attacking footy and not keepings off in the defensive 50. He plays his best footy when he runs off an opponent and kicks long. The current Hawthorn game plan is forcing many players to look for the short option first, panic second. If, by some miracle, we play long and direct andput pressure on the opposition, players like Roughy, Smith and Croad will be able to play their natural games.

Yep that's what I've been saying/thinking, only in better words.