Joseph Gutnick "I'm Back Baby!"

[RandB]

To be honest I'm probably just grandstanding and will end up buying a membership. I just really loathe Joe Gutnick.

From a passive position I share your sentiments with respect to the Likud party. I think though that if you make things black and white in life then you can get yourself stuck. What if for example Gutnik donated millions of $ to the World Wildlife Fund? - would you then shun them? or perhaps millions of $ to Oxfam during the Tsunami disaster? would you disassociate yourself from them as well? The reality is that regardless of where you come form ideologically, people are going to cross paths in life and there isn't much we can do about it. If you let that get in the way of things then it is only effecting your life, not helping the lives of others.

In reality Gutnik would be a very small fish in a very big sea regarding the Likud party - this doesn't make things right at all but some proportion should be kept. His influence over MFC would always be way more profound than his influence over a politial party IMO (I must admit though I don't know the extent of Gutnik's political dealings and may be a bit ignorant here). Like others have said, Gutnik is not going to be the president of the club but more a contributor in some capacity.

 

[Crimson Azure]

Poor form Karl. To not renew your membership...

His business and personal life is exactly that, HIS. I support him, because he supports the club I love. End of Story. You are ignorant Karl, to think that your lack of renewel is going to have ANY impact on Gutnick himself. You are not hurting Gutnick, you are hurting the MFC. Gutnick is not the MFC, he is a supporter like the rest of us.

Agreed.

Not buying a membership would be like having a fight with you boss at work & divorcing you wife as a result instead of quitting your job. The wrong person is being held liable. It really makes no sense to blame the club for a moral issue you have with Joe.

Fair enough if the club was openly supporting him for what he is accused of doing, but if we didn’t buy a membership for our club on the premise that someone may have different views to then no club would have any supporters.

They just want his influence, connections, cash & support of the club. Nothing else.

 

[KickLongTackleHard]

"If you grow up barracking for Melbourne and you've barracked for Melbourne all your life, you can't just go and find a new team," Stynes said.
"If you have a falling out with someone personally, it is important that it is not taken as a falling out with the club.
"We can't let personal agendas and personalities get in the way of letting people support the club they have fallen in love with."

Jimmys message is pretty clear. Gel for the club or don't have a club.

 

[demonfire]

To be honest I'm probably just grandstanding and will end up buying a membership. I just really loathe Joe Gutnick.

buy purchasing a membership, how does this affect gutnick at all?
he doesn't own the club. he doesn't profit from the club.
he is only another supporter who donates money to the club.
you support the mfc, not him.
so don't donate to him then.
doesn't mean you cant donate to the club by buying a membership.

very poor excuse.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

buy purchasing a membership, how does this affect gutnick at all?
he doesn't own the club. he doesn't profit from the club.
he is only another supporter who donates money to the club.
you support the mfc, not him.
so don't donate to him then.
doesn't mean you cant donate to the club by buying a membership.

very poor excuse.

I find it hard to support an organisation that takes his money. Considering both where that money comes from and where it goes.

I find it particularly hard because we aren't just accepting his money, but "reaching out" to him as if he means something.

 

[demonfire]

I find it hard to support an organisation that takes his money. Considering both where that money comes from and where it goes.

I find it particularly hard because we aren't just accepting his money, but "reaching out" to him as if he means something.

yet none of the 'innocent people' that are killed are pouring their money into hamas and other organisations?

right now i dont agree with your opinion and you dont agree with mine. we both donate to the club. i wouldn't consider stopping just because we disagree.

Also consider that the reasons he puts his money into the Likud party isn't so thousands of innocent people are killed. he's doing it for multiple reasons beyond that, which affect the way the state of Israel is run and how it protects itself. As someone said before, it isnt so black and white.

i dont buy nike shoes because i like the idea of slave labour.

 

[tribey]

To be honest I'm probably just grandstanding and will end up buying a membership. I just really loathe Joe Gutnick.

Don't ever change, Karlos.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

yet none of the 'innocent people' that are killed are pouring their money into hamas and other organisations?

right now i dont agree with your opinion and you dont agree with mine. we both donate to the club. i wouldn't consider stopping just because we disagree.

Also consider that the reasons he puts his money into the Likud party isn't so thousands of innocent people are killed. he's doing it for multiple reasons beyond that, which affect the way the state of Israel is run and how it protects itself. As someone said before, it isnt so black and white.

I'm sure we disagree on many points, but I agree Israel should be free to protect itself. The Likud party isn't about protection though and Netanyahu is a shocking human being. Also, the source of his wealth is a major moral problem for me.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that Melbourne FC shouldn't be making a big deal out of Joseph Gutnick and his ill-gotten wealth. If he wanted to be a member he should have just signed up like everyone else. Associating ourselves with someone of his ilk would be like asking for Osama Bin Laden to sign on imo.

We have lost any moral highground we had over Carlton fans now. I hope Jim is happy.

i dont buy nike shoes because i like the idea of slave labour.

I don't buy Nike's anymore for that exact reason.

I guess I'm just made of sterner stuff than you and live by my convictions rather than try to fit them in to the life I already live.

 

[Z_K]

I find Karl's anti-semitism disgusting.

 

[Supermercado]

I find it hard to support an organisation that takes his money. Considering both where that money comes from and where it goes.

I find it particularly hard because we aren't just accepting his money, but "reaching out" to him as if he means something.

I'm just flipping out hard for the return of the MELBOURNE LEFT faction again.

 

[Supermercado]

I find Karl's anti-semitism disgusting.

I find you a ****wit if you can construe any of that as anti-semitism.

 

[Z_K]

I find you a ****wit if you can construe any of that as anti-semitism.

Another anti-semite!!!!

Mods!!!!

 

[Stylus]

Associating ourselves with someone of his ilk would be like asking for Osama Bin Laden to sign on imo.

Ok, that is taking it a bit far. Gutnick can in no way be compared with Bin Laden.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

Ok, that is taking it a bit far. Gutnick can in no way be compared with Bin Laden.

They're both millionaire's who use their power to support the killing of innocents. Osama is up front about it though.

interesting fact: Osama follows Arsenal in the EPL, but they didn't ask him to.

To summarise, my reaction to hearing Gutnick is back on board is not a positive one. In fact, it makes me

 

[Ausyid]

I find Karl's anti-semitism disgusting.

Nothing he said was anti-semetic. Don't try to turn this into something it is not.

They're both millionaire's who use their power to support the killing of innocents. Osama is up front about it though.

interesting fact: Osama follows Arsenal in the EPL, but they didn't ask him to.

To summarise, my reaction to hearing Gutnick is back on board is not a positive one. In fact, it makes me

I've read everything you've said and it is only after this ludicrous statement that I feel the need to get involved. I am not a supporter of Netanyahu and the Likud party, per se, but I do support anyone willing to take the necessary steps to ensure that innocent civilain Israelis can live their lives without the threat of missiles hitting their houses, both during and not during a time of ceasefire.

To compare someone who is trying to protect his country's right to exist, and its people's right to live, with the most high-profile terrorist of modern times is disgusting and offensive. You may disagree with Israel's invasion of Gaza, but you cannot sit there and compare Netanyahu with the man who organised 9/11. I expect an apology for that statement.

Oh and for the record, I was in Israel during its invasion of Gaza, so I would say that I am in a somewhat better position to comment on the situation than you are, even if it is from a Zionist perspective.

Also, I don't understand, as others have said, how any of this relates to your support of the Melbourne FC. By not becoming a member you are in no way having a negative effect on Joseph Gutnick, just on MFC.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

Nothing he said was anti-semetic. Don't try to turn this into something it is not.

Thanks - but NB was definitely taking the piss.

I've read everything you've said and it is only after this ludicrous statement that I feel the need to get involved. I am not a supporter of Netanyahu and the Likud party, per se, but I do support anyone willing to take the necessary steps to ensure that innocent civilain Israelis can live their lives without the threat of missiles hitting their houses, both during and not during a time of ceasefire.

To compare someone who is trying to protect his country's right to exist, and its people's right to live, with the most high-profile terrorist of modern times is disgusting and offensive. You may disagree with Israel's invasion of Gaza, but you cannot sit there and compare Netanyahu with the man who organised 9/11. I expect an apology for that statement.

No apology forthcoming. Netanyahu's first stint as PM (which Gutnick was instrumental in helping him land) was a disgrace.

Not only that, Israel's recent use of white phosphorous on civlian (and UN) targets, and deliberate targetting of hospitals and schools was not only morally reprehensible, but illegal.

I agree the Israeli state has the right to try and find a peace, even if it involves military measures. I do not think the Likud party, with its Zionist religious viewpoint, is capable of achieving such a peace.

That said, Netanyahu's recent comments that peace will be achieved through economic measures rather than reaching an agreement on ideological measures, is somewhat more moderate than what I would have expected from him, and might be a sign the Likud party are moderating.

But then again, as the pro-Zionist Whitehouse described him:

The White House spokesman at the time was Joe Lockhart who described Netanyahu in an interview as "one of the most obnoxious individuals you're going to come into - just a liar and a cheat. He could open his mouth and you could have no confidence that anything that came out of it was the truth."

Oh and for the record, I was in Israel during its invasion of Gaza, so I would say that I am in a somewhat better position to comment on the situation than you are, even if it is from a Zionist perspective.

Not really. I'd argue a Zionist perspective is incapable of seeing the situation for what it is or budging on the borders which is the easiest way to ensure peace, instead of relying on religious texts description of borders.

Also, I don't understand, as others have said, how any of this relates to your support of the Melbourne FC. By not becoming a member you are in now way having a negative effect on Joseph Gutnick, just on MFC.

I know that. I am stating the MFC has lost my support by 'reaching out' to Joe Gutnick. I know it will hurt them, because they have hurt me by reaching out to a man who I completely despise.

If your club was to reach out to a Hamas leader what would you do?

 

[Ausyid]

I'm not asking for an apology for your viewpoint, I'm asking for one because of your comparison of Netanyahu to Osama Bin Laden.

By the way, I support Kadima, for what its worth.

 

[Fairtex09]

Relax fellas, Goodnick was invited to a lunch, I highly doubt Jimmy Stynes will be asking him for handouts. It's a new start I doubt Jimmy will be going backwards in terms of our image. Who cares if he attends a couple of games.

 

[Goffa]

First up, there's no way that objecting to Gutnick's history of support for highly aggressive settler activism is anything to do with anti-semitism.
It would be anti-semetism if people added something like 'which just goes to show what Jews are like'. That would be anti-semitism, and repulsive.

Second, I also have real objections to Gutnicks (alleged/appearance of) past political/militant donations.

But finally, the Melbourne Football Club doesn't become an instrument of fringe politics just because of a supporter who sometimes leans that way. Even when he was president, it's not like the Demons were out evicting Palestinians.

For what it's worth, Jeff Kennett's State Treasurer is a keen Demon.

And then there was that drunk idiot on the train.

My only response is to try to shape the club in the small ways I can, you know, 'be the club you want to see', Ghandi style.

And don't doubt for a moment, I'd happily give Gutnick, treasurer-boy and the idiot on the train a proper earful if the right (wrong?) topics come up.

 

[omit]

i reckon we should get on the Obama bandwagon. he has a great image, a message of hope and is giving away billions like there's no tomorrow

 

[ExTasDeeMan]

i reckon we should get on the Obama bandwagon. he has a great image, a message of hope and is giving away billions like there's no tomorrow

And he supports the Washington Wizards, and they are bigger ********* then we are!

I say we go after Warwick Capper, now that he has got less time after politics.

 

[Fairtex09]

And he supports the Washington Wizards, and they are bigger ********* then we are!

I say we go after Warwick Capper, now that he has got less time after politics.

Warick capper wouldnt be the way to go, he was running for mayor of GC at one stage. Not sending the right message to the dees fans.

 

[Jones#2]

I have to be careful what I say as he has sued people for discussing his links to <edited for self preservation> and <edited for self preservation> practices.

So I'll take the easy option and state its because he financially supports Benjamin Netanyahu and the Likud party.

Regardless of Gutnick returning or not, the club needs our membership. Its not about the politics anymore, have faith in our list and the coaching panel, and let the administration side of the club work itself out. We are in good hands with Stynes

 

[demonfire]

They're both millionaire's who use their power to support the killing of innocents. Osama is up front about it though.

interesting fact: Osama follows Arsenal in the EPL, but they didn't ask him to.

To summarise, my reaction to hearing Gutnick is back on board is not a positive one. In fact, it makes me

You're a ****wit.

That comparison is ridiculous.


We're never going to agree.
But if you don't sign up for a membership you're a joke.

The club has never said they agree with Gutnick's values and the point in 'reaching out' to him was to show the club is reaching out to everyone and is trying to embrace everyone that supports the club rather than being selective. Which is the complete opposite of your opinion. So maybe you should pick another club.

 

[demonfire]

I don't buy Nike's anymore for that exact reason.

I guess I'm just made of sterner stuff than you and live by my convictions rather than try to fit them in to the life I already live.

You clearly missed the point in what i'm saying.
i'm saying people who buy nike shoes don't buy them because they like slave labour. they buy them for the positive aspects.

Gutnick doesn't support them because they apparently 'kill thousands of people'. He supports them for positive aspects.