Coach Justin Longmuir

[Kapow!!!]

The one has nothing to do with the other. Its a false dichotomy you're trying to create.

But yes, goal is certainly what I remember from that year. The emotion I felt when he kicked it, the joy. Those moments are why I follow football.
Of course it means something when we win or lose. There couldn't be any joy from the great moments without the pain of loss.

Far from a false dichotomy for me: Moments are meaningless without context. The above example I provide was an example of the context. A needle in a haystack Friday night game with no finals on the line would've made that particular moment less special to me. And it was equally disappointing when we made that goal utterly pointless, other than the fleeting thrill, by missing finals.

Great moments are underpinned by the achievements to back them up. I loved Stephen Hills goal against Geelong at Kardinia Park and, although we missed out on the flag, we still had a home Prelim and a maiden GF berth to show for it. Much like the Demo Derby was a line in the sand and a turning point in the Western Rivalry, Pavs brilliance agains Geelong at the G in 2012 and so on.

To me the warm and gooey moments of attractive footy mean nothing if they don't amount to anything. Or maybe I'm still broken from the Cuddles Connolly era.

Yeah I can understand why fans have this perception. I'm just of the belief that even with these injuries our depth players can step up. Like with Cox filling in for Hamling, if Cox truly wants to make an impact for us and cares about his position at the club, he will play out of his skin like Hamling does. He's got the skill set and we've all seen it, but it's on him to care enough to apply that skill.

I'm convinced of Cox's potential but remain comprehensively unconvinced of his ticker to turn it into anything more than a "What could've been". I remain quite unconvinced of this depth I keep seeing people say we have.

 

[Kram]

Like with Cox filling in for Hamling, if Cox truly wants to make an impact for us and cares about his position at the club, he will play out of his skin like Hamling does.

Geez good luck with that.

 

[Bring back Drum]

The squad is at about 70% in my opinion. There are far to many like players will similar abilities & output. Ie The likes of Colyer, Giro, Crowden, North & so on, you know who they are.

I reckon Pina is going to be a good player, but he should never have been rookie listed, we needed a swing man with height to cover our current problem.

Jlo has inherited a good list, but it is incomplete. Improvement is the key & I think the squad will improve the most of any club this year, firstly because of the age demographic & secondly because there is now a coach who understands how to coach a squad, not a team.

If we have a fully fit squad for every game, I’d expect to finish 5th, but we don’t & each key player that goes down, makes it difficult. But this is a building (not rebuild) year to a much bigger picture, I’m really looking forward to big jumps forward of individuals which in tern helps team improvement.

 

[FreoRicci]

I see it quite differently. If Longmuir doesn’t have Hogan or Taberner and if Lobb is thrown into the ruck to replace an injured Darcy it will be Doomsday for the season regardless. Having fit and available forwards improves your forward entries*. Having your forward line decimated destroys them.

* not saying we can’t improve this and I’m confident we will, and you’d hope with the emerging players finding their feet this will happen naturally.

Agree. The talls depth is awful tbh.
A graders: Hogan, Lobb
B+: Tabs

Then the drop off is alarming.
Dixon, Meek, Dixon havent played more then a game. Any of those above get injured, supporters will expect the world from these two.
Combined with Cox in back. It’s really up to the medium forwards getting up and about straight away.
Huge pressure on Schultz, Sturt who hasn’t played a game.

I blame Ross, list manager before this. In a pickle with our over reliance on half back types that run all game. Good to see we’ve gone the opposite and bring skill from the draft.
We’re going have to rely on trading but for forwards and defenders as usual. Hence why we got Hamling and gambled on Hogan.
Club probably thought English would get home sick, which he hasn’t. Plus Naughton. We miss out on those two. Tough situation to be in

 

[GingerDocker]

If I had a magic wand to wave over our squad it would focus on development, and when that ran out, I'd look at development again!

My point is it seems to me that the squad has oodles of talent and ability. Players like Cox, Cerra, Wilson, Logue, Hogan, Lobb, Darcy, Acres, McCarthy and the plethora of youngsters, all have not even come close to reaching their ceilings with us.

The biggest challenge JLo has, before game plan, scoring challenges and injury replacements, is how to get the best out of those listed above. Of course every club has a few frustrating, under performing players the fans tend to hate on, but we seem to have more than our share.

One of the best ways of developing players is giving them opportunity and responsibility. Cox and Logue may or may not have what it takes to hold down a couple of key defensive posts, but at least, in some way, we're going to find out over the first month or so of the season. Whichever way you look at it, it will be interesting to watch.

 

[DeanS]

Far from a false dichotomy for me: Moments are meaningless without context. The above example I provide was an example of the context. A needle in a haystack Friday night game with no finals on the line would've made that particular moment less special to me. And it was equally disappointing when we made that goal utterly pointless, other than the fleeting thrill, by missing finals.

Great moments are underpinned by the achievements to back them up. I loved Stephen Hills goal against Geelong at Kardinia Park and, although we missed out on the flag, we still had a home Prelim and a maiden GF berth to show for it. Much like the Demo Derby was a line in the sand and a turning point in the Western Rivalry, Pavs brilliance agains Geelong at the G in 2012 and so on.

To me the warm and gooey moments of attractive footy mean nothing if they don't amount to anything. Or maybe I'm still broken from the Cuddles Connolly era.

I'm with E Shed on this one. For the first time since the Dockers started I haven't bought a seat to the games. I'm still a member but will buy a ticket to the few games I go to. This is because it is just not fun to watch. Even the victories don't bring the joy they used to because of the boring grinding brand of football we've been playing. There is so few moments of that beautiful football exhileration we used to see that it is basically awful to watch.

 

[Kapow!!!]

I'm with E Shed on this one. For the first time since the Dockers started I haven't bought a seat to the games. I'm still a member but will buy a ticket to the few games I go to. This is because it is just not fun to watch. Even the victories don't bring the joy they used to because of the boring grinding brand of football we've been playing. There is so few moments of that beautiful football exhileration we used to see that it is basically awful to watch.

Brutally honest: 2016-2019 were pretty much all terrible, I agree. The best time I had as a Freo supporter was 2012- halfway 2015. I just would hate to return to the 2002-2010 era where we played well but had bugger all to show for it. I'd rather scrap hard and play low scoring shit footy and finish Top 4 and be able to be happy talking footy with my mates during the week than play attractive footy for participation ribbons.

 

[BigRang]

Brutally honest: 2016-2019 were pretty much all terrible, I agree. The best time I had as a Freo supporter was 2012- halfway 2015. I just would hate to return to the 2002-2010 era where we played well but had bugger all to show for it. I'd rather scrap hard and play low scoring shit footy and finish Top 4 and be able to be happy talking footy with my mates during the week than play attractive footy for participation ribbons.

Offense sells memberships, Defence wins premierships.
There is a balance though...

 

[estibador]

I was a big Lyon fan but I must admit to feeling some relief at the change.

I used to religiously watch every Freo game twice, win, lose or draw - the second time to get a better idea of how everyone played without the emotion of the result clouding my judgement. But somewhere along the line during Lyon's reign I stopped doing that. I still enjoyed riding every tackle and stoppage live while the result was on the line, but it made for a boring experience to re-watch minus that emotion.

Who knows, some of it may have just been me getting older with different priorities, I guess I'll find out in the coming season.

 

[Freomaniac]

I see it quite differently. If Longmuir doesn’t have Hogan or Taberner and if Lobb is thrown into the ruck to replace an injured Darcy it will be Doomsday for the season regardless. Having fit and available forwards improves your forward entries*. Having your forward line decimated destroys them.

* not saying we can’t improve this and I’m confident we will, and you’d hope with the emerging players finding their feet this will happen naturally.

again...... I still think has a decent forward line even without Hogan.

If Darcy is injured, fine give Lobb or Meek ruck duties.

I'm happy Tarberner plays full forward and double teamed if that Helps cam McCarthy kick 3-4 goals on the day as a floating Centre half Forward. That means Dixon or Cox plays as a 3rd talk then

 

[E Shed]

I was a big Lyon fan but I must admit to feeling some relief at the change.

I used to religiously watch every Freo game twice, win, lose or draw - the second time to get a better idea of how everyone played without the emotion of the result clouding my judgement. But somewhere along the line during Lyon's reign I stopped doing that. I still enjoyed riding every tackle and stoppage live while the result was on the line, but it made for a boring experience to re-watch minus that emotion.

Who knows, some of it may have just been me getting older with different priorities, I guess I'll find out in the coming season.

Yes. Me too. Exactly.

 

[Kram]

We have been more that way than most other teams under Lyon but pretty much everyone plays grinding defensive and (arguably) often boring footy these days.

My reason that I think Lyon had to go was not so much the w/l record in recent years, but the wheels falling off late in the season and the amount of flogging that were even record breaking. Simply unacceptable.

 

[Yeti]

We have been more that way than most other teams under Lyon but pretty much everyone plays grinding defensive and (arguably) often boring footy these days.

My reason that I think Lyon had to go was not so much the w/l record in recent years, but the wheels falling off late in the season and the amount of flogging that were even record breaking. Simply unacceptable.

I think this has all been covered but already people here are citing the injury list for why our new coach will struggle. When did Lyon get a golden run with injuries? Every year we have had a mountain of injuries. It is an area that I don't think the club has fully addressed and it seems the Lyon sacking has glossed over just how horrible our injuries have been.

 

[Nothing]

I think this has all been covered but already people here are citing the injury list for why our new coach will struggle. When did Lyon get a golden run with injuries? Every year we have had a mountain of injuries. It is an area that I don't think the club has fully addressed and it seems the Lyon sacking has glossed over just how horrible our injuries have been.

If JL has 2 years of horrendous injuries, like Lyon had for the last 3 years, perhaps the board will fall on their sword - accepting that they failed to identify the real issue.

It's chicken and egg stuff, but perhaps Lyon coached boring footy and we got flogged sometimes because we were playing some players not up to it. Many a time, I sat on the wing and watched as <insert name> ran to the ball player, didn't affect the attacker and watched the ball go over his head (to the player he just left). It's dumb footy and we had too many of them on the field too often. Unfortunately, if you're carrying 10-14 players with injuries that's the calibre left (not just our team but all teams).

It appears we will start 2020 without at least 5 (AP, Mundy, Hogan, Wilson, Hamling) and possibly 8 potential best 22 players (Giro, Henry, Switta). Interrupted pre-seasons is a great lead indicator for interrupted seasons. JL will have his work cut out, if he has to start with a quarter of his 22 not the first picked in that position.

 

[Freomaniac]

Brutally honest: 2016-2019 were pretty much all terrible, I agree. The best time I had as a Freo supporter was 2012- halfway 2015. I just would hate to return to the 2002-2010 era where we played well but had bugger all to show for it. I'd rather scrap hard and play low scoring shit footy and finish Top 4 and be able to be happy talking footy with my mates during the week than play attractive footy for participation ribbons.

I still look back at that 2016 season with bitterness. Sure we were crippled with injuries but we were way better than the 4 win 18 loss side we posted.

Had we got 6-7 wins and still got 16th, there would be much more positive notes.

Remarkably I enjoyed the 2017 season, especially the 1st half when Freo were 6-4 after 10 games. I was going to savour every win that season.

My only regret in 2017 was not go to the Port Game even if we got belted by 89 points. We then had that dogs win in which we won 89-73. That win started a good part of the season of winning 6 of the next 7 games. I loved both our narrow wins vs north that year too. Kersten got us the the win in Perth with 41 seconds to go. And in docklands, Goldstein missed a shot and Freo held on to win. So we had our fair share of close games.

Didn't mind going 6-4 after 10 rounds that year even if we won narrowly at home one week and get belted by 60-90 points the next week.

2018 and 2019 were forgettable. It's all about playing youth.

I will savour every final we played from 2012-15. It was the only time we made finals at least 2 years in a row.

That Chris Connolly era from 2002-2007 was a frustrating era for me. Only got a hole Elim final loss in 2003 and a prelim final in 2006 to look back at it. We should of made finals each year from 2003-2007. This is despite Jeff farmer kicking 55 goals in 2006 which 34 of them was kicked in that 9 game winning streak late in 2006. Pav lead our goal kicking with 61 that year too.

Hence I predicted Justin Longmuir to stay for 5-6 years and give us finals for 2-4 years in a row

 

[Kapow!!!]

I still look back at that 2016 season with bitterness. Sure we were crippled with injuries but we were way better than the 4 win 18 loss side we posted.

Had we got 6-7 wins and still got 16th, there would be much more positive notes.

We were definitely better than 0-10. But I am fond if the Brisbane game where it was tipped as anyone's game, mates around me were all up and about when they jumped us with the first 4 goals and then we thrashed them by over 10 goals. Tabs kicked 5-6 from memory. Great afternoon.

Remarkably I enjoyed the 2017 season, especially the 1st half when Freo were 6-4 after 10 games. I was going to savour every win that season.

My only regret in 2017 was not go to the Port Game even if we got belted by 89 points. We then had that dogs win in which we won 89-73. That win started a good part of the season of winning 6 of the next 7 games. I loved both our narrow wins vs north that year too. Kersten got us the the win in Perth with 41 seconds to go. And in docklands, Goldstein missed a shot and Freo held on to win. So we had our fair share of close games.

Didn't mind going 6-4 after 10 rounds that year even if we won narrowly at home one week and get belted by 60-90 points the next week.

2017 was a weird one. It seemed like things clicked for a while there and I genuinely enjoyed the early rollercoaster from the Bulldogs game to the bye. But you could see we had nothing left. Same story from 2015, perhaps even 2014, onwards.

2018 and 2019 were forgettable. It's all about playing youth.

2018 was the least enjoyable season I can remember. I can genuinely say I enjoyed 2001 more. Awful, nothing season with no highlights and an awful middling approach. Last season gave us some respite however with a few crackers like the GWS game and the back to back Walters winners.

That Chris Connolly era from 2002-2007 was a frustrating era for me. Only got a hole Elim final loss in 2003 and a prelim final in 2006 to look back at it. We should of made finals each year from 2003-2007. This is despite Jeff farmer kicking 55 goals in 2006 which 34 of them was kicked in that 9 game winning streak late in 2006. Pav lead our goal kicking with 61 that year too.

Hence I predicted Justin Longmuir to stay for 5-6 years and give us finals for 2-4 years in a row

Growing up I just thought it was how it was but man that 03-07 era was a giant wasted opportunity and very poorly handled that directly impacted the following 2 eras talent wise.

 

[Purple_Turtle]

we needed a swing man with height to cover our current problem.

Can I introduce you to Brennan Cox?

 

[ChimpaWompa]

That round 1 game in 2019 was fun, but ultimately a false positive. The game against GWS on the other hand was awesome and felt like the peak of how we wanted to play in the whole rebuild era, with our big forwards taking marks inside 50 and kicking goals and just a super balanced team game overall. The game against Collingwood, whilst not that free flowing or high scoring also felt pretty momentous due to how disciplined and professional we played resulting in knocking off a good team at home. There were less total blowouts and completely ugly games as well in 2019, but as usual just totally lost steam towards the end of the year. That game at home against Essendon with the old school jersey in particular felt like such a tired game.

The injury list was probably a good enough excuse for Ross to continue coaching but I think it was pretty obvious it wasn't just on field performance that got him sacked. Coaches are meant to be more cuddly then they've ever been and the enthusiastic shift towards more family friendly / fan engagement / player empowerment stuff is pretty indicative of where the current regime feel the old one lost the ball, which probably wasn't Ross's fault alone but there was definitely a staleness about the place. If you drop as many members as we did then its pretty much the writing on the wall anyway.

Besides the cultural change, what I'm realistically hoping for from Jlo is just a more efficient game style, we don't have to play the absolute prettiest but the games where we'd dominate possession and inside 50s and score something like 9.15 were far too common. One of those 2019 derby's, I forget which, epitomised this. It would be foolish to think he was solely responsible for the turnaround but it is reassuring that Collingwood played dumb, inefficient football like this the in the years before Jlo arrived, which almost resulted in Buckley getting fired, but managed to play far more directly in the years following. Very intrigued for his first post match press conferences in the Marsh series because I don't think we've actually heard him talk too much about the team from a tactics or performance perspective in detail.

 

[blue shark]

Can I introduce you to Brennan Cox?

Cox has also played in the ruck, I'd rather him than Tabs pinch hitting.
We have some options in the key positions, but fitness always seems an issue?
Guys who should be in their prime, there are plenty still waiting for that game when they have
arrived.
JC is in great position as a premiership player, to lift the intensity to what is required, and I feel he will
make JLo a better coach, similar to what Sam Mitchell did at WC.
I had high hopes for Dixon when drafted, but so many of our players just seem happy being on an AFL list.

 

[theGav56]

If JL has 2 years of horrendous injuries, like Lyon had for the last 3 years, perhaps the board will fall on their sword - accepting that they failed to identify the real issue.

Bell would need to be the first casualty wouldn’t he?

 

[wayToGo_]

I think JLo has a tough task this season (implementing a whole new game plan isn't easy) but I also think we have a bunch of young guys that looked primed for a great season.

I know some have written off Cox already but he has worked hard to transform his body - to the point I didn't recognise him at training the first time I was there at the start of pre-season. Similarly Logue looks to have taken another step. Big shoes to fill but it is a great opportunity for them both.

A lot of our young mids are starting to hit that ideal age bracket where they aren't just in the side to pump experience into them and having an occasional good game but can impact a game consistently each and every week. Plus we have a bunch of flanker types (that aren't just mids turned into defenders/forwards) that could impact immediately with their skills and speed (Sturt, Young, Henry etc). These guys aren't part of the spine. If they get blocked out of the game that just releases someone else to do damage.

80% of our list is an unknown quantity coming into the 2020 season imo. It's always easy to write off any team that weren't in the 8 last season but I don't see how anyone can predict anything with any certainty about Fremantle this year - we simply don't know enough yet, even us obsessed fans have little clue.

I'm not expecting miracles but I've seen plenty of other teams surprise in similar circumstances - including all three last premiership teams that were written off as no chance the year before (and even at the start of the year of) their premierships (talking Richmond in 2017 obviously, not 2019).

 

[theGav56]

I do. I decided some years ago to enjoy footy as entertainment. Of course I prefer that we win more than we lose and play finals but how we do that is important to me.

I understand for some the results are everything and these are the people who are probably upset Lyon was sacked. They don't care how it gets done, just get it done.

My guess is that results are top of the list for almost all players, coaches and support staff as well, and I certainly hope it is for Longmuir and Bell. Marketing probably sees it differently.

 

[SHill Shall]

Brutally honest: 2016-2019 were pretty much all terrible, I agree. The best time I had as a Freo supporter was 2012- halfway 2015. I just would hate to return to the 2002-2010 era where we played well but had bugger all to show for it. I'd rather scrap hard and play low scoring shit footy and finish Top 4 and be able to be happy talking footy with my mates during the week than play attractive footy for participation ribbons.

Two of my top 5 best moments ever as a Freo supporter were witnessing last minute victories in 2017 against Melbourne and then Richmond in successive away games) at the G.

Finals in 2013 are still the pinnacle though. Ross magic was very powerful then.

 

[SHill Shall]

My guess is that results are top of the list for almost all players, coaches and support staff as well, and I certainly hope it is for Longmuir and Bell. Marketing probably sees it differently.

Winning is marketing!

 

[Bring back Drum]

Can I introduce you to Brennan Cox?

Oh, so he can play full forward & full back at the same time?