Coach Justin Longmuir
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Sure, but we've shown in patches that we can still do it, we just didn't most of 2023. JL must have mentioned 10 times that we were "in our shell" or have become "too insular" or whatever.
So I hope the coaches have been reinforcing over and over that it is ok to make mistakes, because I reckon that accounts for about 70% of the problem.
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And every week JL was lamenting how that slow movement was not how they trained or wanted to play.
Young guys getting spooked and having to rebuild confidence over the year.
Young guys getting spooked and having to rebuild confidence over the year.
If everything goes to plan, we’ll see the weekly changes threads filled with calls to drop X player because of some howler that caused a turnover in the middle of the ground … despite us having won the game
Nonsense, it's much easier to just assume that JL has instructed the guys to play slow, conservative footy.
/s
100%
I'd rather see guys dropped for playing slow, conservative footy than making mistakes tbh.
Of course if it's the same guys turning it over a lot that changes things.
I still expect to see overreactions based off one or two bad turnovers that lead to goals but I'd rather see that than a game style that's never ever going to work.
IMO it's the job of the coaching staff to make sure we play a style of footy that'll win games. I don't really care whether the coaches wanted us to play slow, conservative footy or it's just the players lack of confidence - IMO it's the coaches' job to fix it. JL is at the top of that group - let's see how it goes this season. The first half of last year was unacceptable for me as supporter tbh.
Not sure which is worse:
- the players are implementing the coach's plan, and it is poo.
- the players aren't implementing the coach's plan and he is failing to get them to.
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Yeh, but imagine if we had one of the youngest teams in the league, how does that figure in the equation?
I back JL. It’s not like players aren’t developing or there aren’t some good wins.
Culture seems strong from what every player says.
I am not sure we can claim a strong culture and be discussing the players not following instructions.
I have helped businesses where I was told the culture was strong. Everyone said it was amazing etc. Everyone also did whatever they wanted and didn't respond to feedback.
Culture has to be measured by agreed KPI's. Otherwise it is misused for weak or tyrannical leaders.
Our slow starts are an example. We need to fix our first quarter issues.
It's not about making mistakes, it's about assessing risk. JLs strategy is one of ball retention first. We get first hands on it at stoppages, then use hands to get a clean possession away. If that means 10 handballs then so be it. But all that messing around increased our odds of coughing it up, and even if it did result in the clean kick forward the opposition had more time to set up behind the ball.
That is the low risk mindset that needs to change. Sometimes a hack kick out of a pack is the best way forward, partly because it catches the opposition out of position. But whether that's the best option is a split second call that's very hard to coach. It's not players not following instructions as such.
I'm talking specifically about turnover. From stoppage its a different game because the opposition (and us) get to setup. I think we do stoppage well (usually). It's usually the only reason we are competitive because...
... our turnover game has sucked since midway through 2022. We're a mediocre turnover team and I am convinced a lot of that is being too conservative when we force a turnover.
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If we instruct Ryan to not take any kick ins that would be a good start.
IMO that comes back to the basic principle of being about ball retention first and foremost. Pushing forward on rebound after forcing the turnover is inherently risky in itself as players are out of position and you're sometimes kicking long to open space so our guys can run onto it.
I guess what i'm saying is that you can't force a mindset on players that we need to hold the ball and then blame players for not following instructions when they're not prepared to move the ball fast and kick to contests.
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I can just see us going 5-0 to start the season. Cornes and King will wax lyrical on SEN about whether "Freo has arrived" and has the "Luke Jackson experiment worked?" before we lose the next 15.
Brodie and NOD couldn’t hold their form. JOM wasn’t an adequate replacement and now Aish to the backline.
So from ‘22 midfield we need to replace 2x insides and 2x wingers. Inside is definitely sounding promising, wingers is a bit of an inexperienced lottery right now but we have options.
Agree that 13th wouldn’t be a pass mark for me.
We need to be better at home, last year some awful footy played at Optus and dropped games.
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Takes time, if it were a seasoned group sure I’d agree.
But this is kids going into their shell a bit under pressure, and in front of tens of thousands of people.
And we aren’t in a position to understand whether it is just rheotoric or the culture is strong, but we have some evidence in that our really key players signed long term deals.
Each to their own, but I don't think it is a difficult concept to go fast when you turn it over and go slower from stoppage. I've never coached AFL before though.
Fair call, especially Brodie.
They have had four years. Time is less and less a factor. In any calculation on culture time is considered, after a year it should depreciate quickly.
There is more evidence than you suggest, I am not making a claim either way. I was responding to a claim that there is evidence of a good culture. Now there is a statement saying there is some evidence based on our 'really key players siging long term deals'. We have ahd key players leave. Is your argument that they were not 'really key players'?
If we were to look league wide, apart from homesickness, the vast majority of clubs retain their 'really key players'. If all clubs have a strong culture, then having a strong culture is not enough, that would leave us with the rest of the pack. We would need an exceptional culture. If Brayshaw doesn't sign on would we then have a weak culture? I think it is a flimsy metric that could form part of the picture rather than be decisive on the whole.
Four years is an eternity in a non volunteer led organisation. Think about how west coast have fared since 2019-2022. Coming off a flag to one of the worst seasons in the last 30 years. Last year people were calling JL a young/developing coach. He had been in the position three years. At that point he either shouldn't have had the position in the first place (hiring mistake) or we are making excuses.
Great culture would hold the line or establish requirements in the face of pressure. Currently we have one of the worst first quarter teams I can remember. Young teams can be taught to take risks. We know the emphasis at our club has been defence since Longmuir took over. It was praised in his first few seasons. Now it isn't talked about. Could it be that defence is still the number one focus? In our set ups, in our transition, with forward entries? Are we being trained to go the attacking yet defensive minded option?
The other side of that is we are a young team. However, we are gaining experience. One part of the clubs culture is management. Management decided an experienced, in form wing wasn't a requirement. I think Bell has been held accountable for that decision to some extent.
The claims of great culture or negative culture when it comes to coaches seem to be based on social media messaging and whether we like the coach or not. In other words 'are they nice'.
I know the head of socials at freo - and like him. He is very good at his job, and could create almost any narrative you asked from him. Which is the sign of a good hire in the role. You say we can't be in a position to understand if it is rhetoric or strong and yet you continue to advocate that it is strong.
I think there are better indicators:
Struggles at home.
First quarter debacles.
Continued focus on defensive movement. I don't believe we go into our shell as that would indicate the norm is an attacking game style.
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