USA Kamala Harris the 47th President of the United States - Hopefully.

[Dazzler9]

As they are in Australia.

Also the first past the post system in the UK gave Reform 4 seats for 4.5m votes and Lib Dem 76 seats for 3m votes.

Is that a fairer system?

The balance if power in most democratic nations changes parties fairly evenly despite the voting system. Calls to change them are only made by thise who want to tip the scales squarely in their favour.

Proportional representation and preferential voting is all well and good when deciding a government comprising multiple seats with multiple parties listed on the ballot. But we're talking about (essentially) a 1 v 1 Presidential contest where it's winner takes all. There should be no weighting involved, as the winner of the popular vote automatically has a majority of votes. The electoral college skews that and is less democratic.

 

[Stokey]

Proportional representation and preferential voting is all well and good when deciding a government comprising multiple seats with multiple parties listed on the ballot. But we're talking about (essentially) a 1 v 1 Presidential contest where it's winner takes all. There should be no weighting involved, as the winner of the popular vote automatically has a majority of votes. The electoral college skews that and is less democratic.

It's just like stacking the courts, ending the fillibuster. Its always the Democrats calling for it when they dont get their way.

Repulicans are only asking for only citizens of the US to vote?
Why is even the DOJ fighting against this?

 

[GreyCrow]

Can someone let me know which countries require ID

Does the UK?

I know here its an honour system and I have never needed ID to vote

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Can someone let me know which countries require ID

Does the UK?

I know here its an honour system and I have never needed ID to vote

We also do not have the level of illegal immigration that the United States has.

 

[Bloods86]

It's just like stacking the courts, ending the fillibuster. Its always the Democrats calling for it when they dont get their way.

Republicans are the only ones to stack the Supreme Court:

Mitch McConnell Flatly Rejects Any Obama Pick to Supreme Court

The Senate majority leader said the voters should decide in the presidential election what kind of judge should take the seat of Antonin Scalia.

www.nbcnews.com

McConnell Vows Vote on Ginsburg Replacement as Her Death Upends the 2020 Race (Published 2020)

Democrats warn Republicans to follow the precedent they set in 2016, when they refused to consider President Barack Obama’s choice for the court on the grounds that it was an election year.

www.nytimes.com

Republicans ended the filibuster for SCOTUS nominees:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...e-the-filibuster-to-save-neil-gorsuch/522156/

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

How is equalising the value of votes ending democracy?

Under the current electoral college some votes are worth far more than others.

Would they be contemplating doing it if it disadvantaged them?

 

[Dazzler9]

It's just like stacking the courts, ending the fillibuster. Its always the Democrats calling for it when they dont get their way.

Repulicans are only asking for only citizens of the US to vote?
Why is even the DOJ fighting against this?

I'm not talking about any of that, so don't deflect. I responded to questions about the Electoral College system, which is less democratic than a popular vote for the Presidency.

 

[GreyCrow]

We also do not have the level of illegal immigration that the United States has.

Depends how you define citizen I guess

I think the fact that voting is voluntary in the US would eliminate many of these immigrants from voting

 

[Dazzler9]

Would they be contemplating doing it if it disadvantaged them?

Doubtful. But it doesn't mean the point is not correct.

 

[Bloods86]

Doubtful. But it doesn't mean the point is not correct.

Pfft. Principles don't matter.

For all the nonsense blathering about DEI, if we were to believe the simplistic conservative line of "unearned leg up", the electoral college is DEI for the Republican party.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Depends how you define citizen I guess

I think the fact that voting is voluntary in the US would eliminate many of these immigrants from voting

You don't need many to flip a tight state, and the democrats have done everything they can to ship immigrants into key areas, care/feed/cash up for them more than their own citizens, as an election strategy. Its just human trafficking on a lower level tbh.

 

[pjcrows]

Democracy simply means a system of governance ruled by the people. Any system of government in which people vote their elected representatives into parliament is a democracy.

Democracy doesn't necessarily mean one person/one vote = majority wins. In the US case, this would be the popular vote.

To say that the Electoral College isn't democratic is false. It's just a different type of democracy than the popular vote.

 

[GreyCrow]

You don't need many to flip a tight state, and the democrats have done everything they can to ship immigrants into key areas, care/feed/cash up for them more than their own citizens, as an election strategy. Its just human trafficking on a lower level tbh.

Ok we're done

 

[Gough]

You don't need many to flip a tight state, and the democrats have done everything they can to ship immigrants into key areas, care/feed/cash up for them more than their own citizens, as an election strategy. Its just human trafficking on a lower level tbh.

You can prove this?

 

[Bloods86]

Democracy simply means a system of governance ruled by the people. Any system of government in which people vote their elected representatives into parliament is a democracy.

Democracy doesn't necessarily mean one person/one vote = majority wins. In the US case, this would be the popular vote.

To say that the Electoral College isn't democratic is false. It's just a different type of democracy than the popular vote.

The claims were a) that the electoral college is less democratic than popular vote, not that it's not democratic (haven't heard a counter yet) and b) that switching to popular vote would "end Democracy" (unsurprisingly the poster ran away from that claim as fast as they could).

 

[pjcrows]

The claims were a) that the electoral college is less democratic than popular vote (haven't heard a counter yet) and b) that switching to popular vote would "end Democracy" (unsurprisingly the poster ran away from that claim as fast as they could).

Fair enough. I didn't read the earlier posts, sorry.

The PV/EC argument is an interesting one.

It certainly wouldn't end democracy to switch to PV. It's literally democracy.

 

[Dazzler9]

Fair enough. I didn't read the earlier posts, sorry.

The PV/EC argument is an interesting one.

It certainly wouldn't end democracy to switch to PV. It's literally democracy.

Correct. This is the point most are arguing.

 

[pjcrows]

An argument often shared by those welded to the Electoral College is "a popular vote would mean that the concentration of political attention will just go to a few places with large numbers of people".

Right now, due to the electoral college, the political attention is only in a few places, and about 100,000 people in 4 states are going to decide the election of a country of 330,000,000.

 

[Bloods86]

Fair enough. I didn't read the earlier posts, sorry.

The PV/EC argument is an interesting one.

It certainly wouldn't end democracy to switch to PV. It's literally democracy.

Yes. The poster who made the claim seems to believe that democracy is when a system is designed so that power changes hands regularly, regardless of which set of hands is most popular, rather than the system being designed to more accurately reflect the will of the constituents.

Although they did give a good argument for popular vote with a UK example, by mistake.

So it probably just comes down to getting Republican presidents in power some of the time, by any means, for purely partisan reasons, even if more of their constituents voted for a particular alternative.

 

[Maggie5]

Can someone let me know which countries require ID

Does the UK?

I know here its an honour system and I have never needed ID to vote

I don't get all this talk about voter ID. Another of Trump's/Republican 'nothing burger'.

This is the map that already has required ID. Thirty-six states have laws requesting or requiring voters to show some form of identification at the polls. The remaining 14 states and Washington, D.C., use other methods to verify the identity of voters. Most frequently, other identifying information provided at the polling place, such as a signature, is checked against information on file.



The following is a map of likely outcomes for this years election based on polls.



A large number are Red states that have ID to vote, not sure that this is a real issue.

https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id

Voter identification laws by state

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics

ballotpedia.org

 

[OneGreatClub]

It's just like stacking the courts, ending the fillibuster. Its always the Democrats calling for it when they dont get their way.

Repulicans are only asking for only citizens of the US to vote?
Why is even the DOJ fighting against this?

Oh of course Republicans are “only asking that only citizens of the US vote.”…sure…
Where is your evidence that the DOJ is against this?
It is already illegal for them to vote.

Where is your evidence that the right are not purging eligible voters from the rolls?
Texas has purged million of voters. They are not non citizens, there might be a few, a tiny percentage.

Only a few out of millions of voters have been found to be “illegal”

It is the usual scaremongering which the gullible lap up.
Do you think millions of illegals would expose themselves and risk deportation by voting?

Think it through.

 

[OneGreatClub]

An argument often shared by those welded to the Electoral College is "a popular vote would mean that the concentration of political attention will just go to a few places with large numbers of people".

Right now, due to the electoral college, the political attention is only in a few places, and about 100,000 people in 4 states are going to decide the election of a country of 330,000,000.

Yes exactly. It is crazy.

 

[Not Important]

 

[Spearman]

How is asking for ID to prove citizenship supressing the vote? Isnt it ensuring fairness?

Why is an ID needed for nearly everything but it's not ok for what should be the most fundamental right if a citizen.

From the League of Women Voters

The issue with this argument is that time and time again, voter photo ID laws are proven to be ineffective tools to fight voter fraud — in the rare instances it does take place. While voter photo ID laws aim to prevent in-person voter impersonation, an almost non-existent form of voter fraud, other types of voter impersonation are similarly rare and not cause for significant concern. According to the Brennan Center, the rate of in-person voter impersonation is extremely low: only 0.00004% of all ballots cast. It’s worth noting that this rate is even significantly lower than other rare forms of voter fraud, such as absentee ballot fraud, which voter photo ID laws do not address.

Voter fraud is so extremely rare. Out of 250,000,000 votes cast by mail between 2000 and 2020, there were 193 criminal convictions. By those numbers, a person is more likely to be struck by lightning than they are to commit voter fraud. Further, there are already measures in place to detect irregularities and investigate potential cases of voter fraud, making the need for further legislation even smaller.

And there are other reasons
https://www.lwv.org/blog/whats-so-bad-about-voter-id-laws

 

[Satan]

From the League of Women Voters


And there are other reasons
https://www.lwv.org/blog/whats-so-bad-about-voter-id-laws

Excellent article , photo id hardly stops non existent fraud on the day but prevents marginalised people from voting