Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records

35Daicos · Jul 26, 2020

JUNIOR ASSOCIATION. - The Corowa Free Press (NSW : 1875 - 1954) - 20 Aug 1901

Aug. 24--Lilliput v. Mayflower (Clark), Howlong v. Wahgunyah (Barnes). The Argus says of Lon. Jackson, who played with Border last year, and who is ...

trove.nla.gov.au

NOTES BY

Saturday's results:--Border, 6.8; Chiltern, 13. Wangaratta, 6.12; Rutherglen 4.5. Beechworth, 6.11; Southern, 4.6. Border will want to improve on ...

trove.nla.gov.au

I think this pretty much settles the issue as far as the 1901-02 player is concerned. The 1907 player is almost certain to be a different person.

South Melbourne actually played a game against Rutherglen on 3 August 1901: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/234871522

Jackson made his debut for South a week later, so he most likely played (and impressed) in the earlier game: https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/J/Johnny_Jackson.html

ThePope · Jul 26, 2020

35Daicos said:
I think this pretty much settles the issue as far as the 1901-02 player is concerned. The 1907 player is almost certain to be a different person.

Great teamwork. One notices a possible discrepancy, I find a few basic facts, and then you slam home the goal from 55m on the boundary into the wind!

All those modern Swans players will need to add 1 to their player number!

35Daicos · Jul 26, 2020

ThePope said:
Great teamwork. One notices a possible discrepancy, I find a few basic facts, and then you slam home the goal from 55m on the boundary into the wind!

All those modern Swans players will need to add 1 to their player number!

We have a "good little community" here on this part of BigFooty, there's no doubt about that! It is great to see that there are people who are willing to jump in and help others when they can.

rbartlett · Jul 27, 2020

So just to get my head around this for the spreadsheet
You are saying that the current Johnny Jackson details (birth/death) are to remain, but we remove the 1907 stats from his profile.

Johnny Jackson (Australian footballer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

AND

we add a whole new player called ...? J. L Jackson, for the 7 games in 1907 for South Melbourne, is that right?

35Daicos · Jul 27, 2020

rbartlett said:
So just to get my head around this for the spreadsheet
You are saying that the current Johnny Jackson details (birth/death) are to remain, but we remove the 1907 stats from his profile.

Johnny Jackson (Australian footballer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

AND

we add a whole new player called ...? J. L Jackson, for the 7 games in 1907 for South Melbourne, is that right?

Not quite, Rhett. J. L. "Lou" Jackson is a whole new player, but he played the 1901-02 games. Johnny Jackson played the 1907 games only.

rbartlett · Jul 27, 2020

I thought perhaps its time to do an audit of every start time of a VFL Final from 1897 - now.
I know that's a bit task, but if I post a year by year, it will be easier to do in bite-size format.

Atm, AFLTables says most Finals since 1897 started at 2.30 which surely can't be right. And Grand Final's at 2.50.

So perhaps it's time to set the record straight, cause I can't see anywhere where the true start times are listed.
Then I can dump them in a spreadsheet for Paul to update on AFLTables, and for AFL to be across

Here's 1897 - 1906

1897
SF Melb v Coll 21 Aug -
SF Geel v Ess 21 Aug -
SF Ess v Coll 28 Aug -
SF Geel v Melb 28 Aug -
SF Geel v Coll 4 Sep -
SF Ess v Melb 4 Sep -

1898
SF Coll vs Fitz 17 Sept - well has to be no earlier than 2.50pm, as StK players who wanted to watch the game had until 2.50pm to get their tickets at entrance gate.
GF Ess v Fitz 24 Sept -

1899
GF Fitz Sth 16 Sept -

1900
SF Ess Melb 15 Sept -
GF Fitz Melb 22 Sept

1901
SF Gee Coll 31 Aug -
SF Ess Fitz 31 Aug -
GF Ess Coll 7 Sept -

1902
SF Coll FItz 6 Sept
SF Ess Melb 6 Sept
PF Ess Fitz 13 Sept
GF Coll Ess 20 Sept

1903
SF Carl Coll 5 Sept -
SF Fitz Geel 5 Sept -
GF - 3.10pm is correct (no change to AFLTables)

1904
SF Carl Ess 10 Sept -
SF Fitz Coll 10 Sept -
GF Fitz Carl 17 Sept -

1905
SF Coll Car l16 Sept -
SF Fitz Ess 16 Sept -
PF Fitz Carl 23 Sept -
GF Coll Fitz 30 Sept -

1906
SF Carl Coll 15 Sept - 3pm
SF Fitz Ess 15 Sept - 3pm
GF Carl Fitz 22 Sept -

35Daicos · Jul 31, 2020

The spelling of this players last name should be Weidemann.

Peter Weidemann - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

AFL Tables - Peter Weideman - Stats - Statistics

Australian Football - Peter Weidemann - Player Bio

australianfootball.com

He is Murray's cousin, despite the difference in spelling of the last names.

He is also the father of former Adelaide player Wayne (Weidemann): https://www.afc.com.au/news/349119/where-are-they-now-weidemann-

Peter WEIDEMANN

The 1958 season was a big one for the Weideman family. That was the year the famous Murray stood in as captain and led Collingwood to a miracle flag.Much less well remembered, however, was the fact that another family member started his footballing journey at Victoria Park the same year.

forever.collingwoodfc.com.au

*Paul*
Oliver Gigacz

RedmanWasHere · Jul 31, 2020

35Daicos said:
The spelling of this players last name should be Weidemann.

Peter Weidemann - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

AFL Tables - Peter Weideman - Stats - Statistics

Australian Football - Peter Weidemann - Player Bio

australianfootball.com

View attachment 923873
He is Murray's cousin, despite the difference in spelling of the last names.

He is also the father of former Adelaide player Wayne (Weidemann): https://www.afc.com.au/news/349119/where-are-they-now-weidemann-

Peter WEIDEMANN

The 1958 season was a big one for the Weideman family. That was the year the famous Murray stood in as captain and led Collingwood to a miracle flag.Much less well remembered, however, was the fact that another family member started his footballing journey at Victoria Park the same year.

forever.collingwoodfc.com.au

View attachment 923876
View attachment 923877
*Paul*
Oliver Gigacz

This would make Sam and Wayne 2nd cousins once removed.

RedmanWasHere · Jul 31, 2020

RedmanWasHere said:
This would make Sam and Wayne 2nd cousins once removed.

And, in turn, Wayne's son Jake would be Sam's 3rd cousin.

ThePope · Jul 31, 2020

RedmanWasHere said:
This would make Sam and Wayne 2nd cousins once removed.

Should add at least Wayne to the family links section, Oliver Gigacz. 2nd cousins is getting a bit far.

It appears that he died in 2012.
Date of birth is off by exactly one month (see grave), and it does mention a Wayne in the death notice. Ryerson lists that he is late of Fish Creek, and living in Coolamon, which is where he played, so maybe one of his children lived there.

Seems like he had dementia.

[TD valign="top"]WEIDEMANN[/TD][TD valign="top"]Peter John[/TD][TD valign="top"]Obituary[/TD][TD valign="top"]15JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death[/TD][TD valign="top"]72[/TD][TD valign="top"]late of Fish Creek, formerly of Coolamon[/TD][TD valign="top"]Temora Independent[/TD][TD valign="top"]13JUL2012[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]

[TD valign="top"]WEIDEMANN[/TD][TD valign="top"]Peter John[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death notice[/TD][TD valign="top"]15JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death[/TD][TD valign="top"]72[/TD][TD valign="top"]at Coolamon Hospital, NSW[/TD][TD valign="top"]Herald Sun (Melbourne)[/TD][TD valign="top"]16JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]

[TD valign="top"]WEIDEMANN[/TD][TD valign="top"]Peter John[/TD][TD valign="top"]Funeral notice[/TD][TD valign="top"]20JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"]Funeral[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"]Wagga Wagga Daily Advertiser[/TD][TD valign="top"]18JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]

[TD valign="top"]WEIDEMANN[/TD][TD valign="top"]Peter John[/TD][TD valign="top"]Funeral notice[/TD][TD valign="top"]20JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"]Funeral[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"]Wagga Wagga Daily Advertiser[/TD][TD valign="top"]19JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]

[TD valign="top"]WEIDEMANN[/TD][TD valign="top"]Peter John[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death notice[/TD][TD valign="top"]15JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death[/TD][TD valign="top"]72[/TD][TD valign="top"]at Coolamon Hospital, NSW[/TD][TD valign="top"]Wagga Wagga Daily Advertiser[/TD][TD valign="top"]16JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]

[TD valign="top"]WEIDEMANN[/TD][TD valign="top"]Peter John[/TD][TD valign="top"]Funeral notice[/TD][TD valign="top"]20JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"]Funeral[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"]Herald Sun (Melbourne)[/TD][TD valign="top"]19JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]

[TD valign="top"]WEIDEMANN[/TD][TD valign="top"]Peter John[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death notice[/TD][TD valign="top"]15JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death[/TD][TD valign="top"]72[/TD][TD valign="top"]at Coolamon Hospital, NSW[/TD][TD valign="top"]Sentinel-Times (South Gippsland)[/TD][TD valign="top"]19JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]

RedmanWasHere · Aug 1, 2020

ThePope said:
Fish Creek

Which is where Weed and Barry Standfield would've been teammates at one stage.

Oliver G · Aug 1, 2020

Thanks ThePope, 35Daicos, rbartlett, connor7395 I've gone through the last month or so and AF has been updated with confirmed changes.

RedmanWasHere · Aug 1, 2020

Oliver Gigacz said:
Thanks ThePope, 35Daicos, rbartlett, connor7395 I've gone through the last month or so and AF has been updated with confirmed changes.

You've got the Weid as Pete's 2nd cousin but he's Pete's son.

rbartlett · Aug 1, 2020

Stephen Rodgers emailed to say that StKilda player Robert Myers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Myers_(footballer) died on March 18 2020.

Rodgers found this by accident after initially thinking that the Robert Myers in July 31 2020 Herald Sun obituaries was the StKilda player.
But Rodgers had his middle name always as "Henley", and a nickname of "Mick".
So googling that he then came across the REAl Robert Myers, who died only a few months earlier in 2020

35Daicos · Aug 1, 2020

ThePope said:
Should add at least Wayne to the family links section, Oliver Gigacz. 2nd cousins is getting a bit far.

It appears that he died in 2012.
Date of birth is off by exactly one month (see grave), and it does mention a Wayne in the death notice. Ryerson lists that he is late of Fish Creek, and living in Coolamon, which is where he played, so maybe one of his children lived there.

Seems like he had dementia.

[TD valign="top"]WEIDEMANN[/TD][TD valign="top"]Peter John[/TD][TD valign="top"]Obituary[/TD][TD valign="top"]15JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death[/TD][TD valign="top"]72[/TD][TD valign="top"]late of Fish Creek, formerly of Coolamon[/TD][TD valign="top"]Temora Independent[/TD][TD valign="top"]13JUL2012[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]

[TD valign="top"]WEIDEMANN[/TD][TD valign="top"]Peter John[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death notice[/TD][TD valign="top"]15JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death[/TD][TD valign="top"]72[/TD][TD valign="top"]at Coolamon Hospital, NSW[/TD][TD valign="top"]Herald Sun (Melbourne)[/TD][TD valign="top"]16JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]

[TD valign="top"]WEIDEMANN[/TD][TD valign="top"]Peter John[/TD][TD valign="top"]Funeral notice[/TD][TD valign="top"]20JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"]Funeral[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"]Wagga Wagga Daily Advertiser[/TD][TD valign="top"]18JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]

[TD valign="top"]WEIDEMANN[/TD][TD valign="top"]Peter John[/TD][TD valign="top"]Funeral notice[/TD][TD valign="top"]20JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"]Funeral[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"]Wagga Wagga Daily Advertiser[/TD][TD valign="top"]19JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]

[TD valign="top"]WEIDEMANN[/TD][TD valign="top"]Peter John[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death notice[/TD][TD valign="top"]15JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death[/TD][TD valign="top"]72[/TD][TD valign="top"]at Coolamon Hospital, NSW[/TD][TD valign="top"]Wagga Wagga Daily Advertiser[/TD][TD valign="top"]16JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]

[TD valign="top"]WEIDEMANN[/TD][TD valign="top"]Peter John[/TD][TD valign="top"]Funeral notice[/TD][TD valign="top"]20JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"]Funeral[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"]Herald Sun (Melbourne)[/TD][TD valign="top"]19JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]

[TD valign="top"]WEIDEMANN[/TD][TD valign="top"]Peter John[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death notice[/TD][TD valign="top"]15JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death[/TD][TD valign="top"]72[/TD][TD valign="top"]at Coolamon Hospital, NSW[/TD][TD valign="top"]Sentinel-Times (South Gippsland)[/TD][TD valign="top"]19JUN2012[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]

Very good effort in finding this. I've passed it on to the folks at Collingwood. It is surprising that the football world seems to have missed this news, especially as the Herald Sun included the death and funeral notices (on separate days).

It would be interesting to know what the AFL people make of the situation with the DOB, as I see both Wikipedia and AustralianFootball.com are now showing it as 23 March 1940.

Oliver G · Aug 1, 2020

RedmanWasHere said:
You've got the Weid as Pete's 2nd cousin but he's Pete's son.

Thanks, corrected.

rbartlett said:
Stephen Rodgers emailed to say that StKilda player Robert Myers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Myers_(footballer) died on March 18 2020.

Rodgers found this by accident after initially thinking that the Robert Myers in July 31 2020 Herald Sun obituaries was the StKilda player.
But Rodgers had his middle name always as "Henley", and a nickname of "Mick".
So googling that he then came across the REAl Robert Myers, who died only a few months earlier in 2020

Thanks Rhett, AF has been updated.

ThePope · Aug 1, 2020

rbartlett said:
Stephen Rodgers emailed to say that StKilda player Robert Myers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Myers_(footballer) died on March 18 2020.

Rodgers found this by accident after initially thinking that the Robert Myers in July 31 2020 Herald Sun obituaries was the StKilda player.
But Rodgers had his middle name always as "Henley", and a nickname of "Mick".
So googling that he then came across the REAl Robert Myers, who died only a few months earlier in 2020

According to Ryerson, 2 different Peter Weidemanns died within 6 months of each other in 2012 too.

RedmanWasHere · Aug 1, 2020

If I am to nitpick, Wayne and Murray Weideman/n are technically 1st cousins 1x removed.

Bandit55 · Aug 3, 2020

35Daicos said:
We have a "good little community" here on this part of BigFooty, there's no doubt about that! It is great to see that there are people who are willing to jump in and help others when they can.

Thanks very much for the research.

The Argus confirms that the 1901 Jackson was from Rutherglen:

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/...le/13/1901/08/12/page/327118/article/10565988

Lou Jackson seems to have played for Rutherglen until he was nearly 40, including five premierships:

https://kbonreflection.wordpress.com/tag/lou-jackson/

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/121005947

https://websites.sportstg.com/assoc_page.cgi?c=1-6190-0-0-0&sID=89933

He rescued a lad from drowning in February 1902:

I wonder if the 1907 Jackson is the player arrested after this game:

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/10903948/366043

35Daicos · Aug 3, 2020

Bandit55 said:
I wonder if the 1907 Jackson is the player arrested after this game:

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/10903948/366043

John Jackson went back to Port Melbourne in 1908, was still tied to them at the time that person was arrested, and went to Northcote just a few days later:

He was in the squad for the Port Melbourne game played on the 20th May, but didn't make the final team. It could perhaps be that he played for Montague or Reliance on that day, but it's probably not that likely:

RedmanWasHere · Aug 3, 2020

I've just stumbled across this while seeing where Luke Breust is ranked, goalkicking wise. (FWIW, Breust has 212 games for 400 career goals.)

98. 399 0^ 153 2.61 Cliff Rankin GE

What happened to Cliff's 400th goal?

35Daicos · Aug 3, 2020

RedmanWasHere said:
I've just stumbled across this while seeing where Luke Breust is ranked, goalkicking wise. (FWIW, Breust has 212 games for 400 career goals.)

98. 399 0^ 153 2.61 Cliff Rankin GE

What happened to Cliff's 400th goal?

Probably got changed after this was pointed out!: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...fficial-records.1089761/page-78#post-58958510

Wikipedia still has him with 400 League goals, but AFL Tables and AustralianFootball.com have 399.

AFL Tables - Cliff Rankin - Stats - Statistics

Yep! From the old AFL Historical Statistics website (Geelong 1926 page):

It can also be seen on the group's spreadsheet: https://www.dropbox.com/s/f9uskpqcjckgn2m/Inaccuracies in Australian Football League data.xlsx?dl=0

RedmanWasHere · Aug 3, 2020

35Daicos said:
Probably got changed after this was pointed out!: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...fficial-records.1089761/page-78#post-58958510
View attachment 926692
Wikipedia still has him with 400 League goals, but AFL Tables and AustralianFootball.com have 399.

AFL Tables - Cliff Rankin - Stats - Statistics
View attachment 926696

Yep! From the old AFL Historical Statistics website (Geelong 1926 page):
View attachment 926698
View attachment 926699

It can also be seen on the group's spreadsheet: https://www.dropbox.com/s/f9uskpqcjckgn2m/Inaccuracies in Australian Football League data.xlsx?dl=0
View attachment 926735

Thank you.

For the yearly stats book, that's a huge development.

Biggest one for me.

I'm bummed that Rankin is out of the 400 club.

35Daicos · Aug 3, 2020

RedmanWasHere said:
Thank you.

For the yearly stats book, that's a huge development.

Biggest one for me.

I'm bummed that Rankin is out of the 400 club.

That change to the official records must have been made a year or so back yet Rankin is still shown in the 400 goals+ section of the 2020 AFL Season Guide, so it looks like that news wasn't passed on (to the book's editor).

RedmanWasHere · Aug 7, 2020

Oliver Gigacz.

Didn't know where to put this but James Stewart (GWS,ESS) is the son of Tiger and Pie Craig Stewart.

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