Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records

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rbartlett said:
Stephen Rodgers advised on email that
"we've had a notification, from Essendon, that for the player William Harrison, 1909-11, the man we currently have in the records is wrong.
We're in the process of trying to get the correct details - it's a really messy, not straightforward one - and of course I'll pass on when we hopefully get the correct details."

ping WhiteHartLane23
Click to expand...

Long story short - Rodgers has advised William Harrison is now this man:

The new details are:

William (no middle name) Harrison

Essendon 1909 - 11

Amended date of birth November 5, 1883

Amended date of death April 29, 1949

No War service.

So fyi to WhiteHartLane23 to go on the spreadsheet, and to who it is maintaining the Wiki
 
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rbartlett said:
Hmm, have AFL got the wrong Richmond player below.

Currently, they have HAMILTON STOKESBURY (26 June 1897 - 3 March 1968) 1915, 1 game.
His wiki page is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_Stokesbury as Albert Hamilton Stokesbury.
Look at the footnote No.4 on that wiki page. It is referring to the Paul Hogan RFC book of 1996 'The Tigers of Old'.
Hogan had been misinformed; although Hamilton was related to the talented boxer, respected referee, and Richmond trainer, Joseph Allwood "Joe" Stokesberry (1873-1952), who married Nellie Lewis in 1894, (see, for example, Deaths: Stokesberry, The Argus, (Wednesday, 22 October 1952), p.12.), he was not his son, he was his nephew.

But in 1913 there is a Harry Stokeberry , "offspring of Trainer "Joe"', trying out for Richmond http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article254613080
I reckon that's William Henry Stokesberry , b 1896 to mother Lewis, and father Jos Allwood Stokesberry
And at Joe Allwood Stokesberry death, the notice says he had a son Harry.

So was it Harry Stokesberry, the son of Richmond trainer Joe Stokesberry, who 2 years later played that 1 game in 1915
Or was it 'a nephew' Hamilton Stokesbury?

The Age says Stokesbury played for Richmond that day http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article154987013
But keep in mind a few papers would often spell Joe Stokesberry's name wrong (ie: Sporting Judge 'Stokesbury' http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article154819483) so did they maybe spell the RFC players name wrong as well?

and where did the idea that the first name of the RFC player is 'Hamilton' come from? Is that anywhere in print in Trove papers.
Click to expand...

Rodgers update:
"He is, simply, H.Stokesbury in the original R.H.Campbell 1915 Richmond sheet.
Also, on the half back flank, in the Richmond typed teams, for that match.
As we know, not in the Footy Record both for that game, and the week after's, not even bothered to include, on the full Richmond list.
That's it!! - in terms of what's in here. "

"You ask us, where we got the Hamilton from. I can only imagine, it was from Paul (Hogan, who authored Tigers of Old), because that was what he called him. Paul, I'm pretty sure, did his 1996 book (and his years of research, in the lead-up to it), completely independent of AFL records - that's what I've always believed."

Rhett's comment:
Well looking at Paul's book entry he has "He was the son of long-time club trainer, Joe Stokesbury".
So he may be right in that description, but simply researched the wrong person because of the surname spelling (which was often misspelt in newspaper and club records)
 

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Bringing this over from the 'small questions' thread

Is Collingwood's Brayden Sier any relation at all to Ken Sier (1940-47 Fitz, 1948-50 Richmond) and his brother Gerry Sier (1948-49 Fitz, 1950 Richmond).
Brayden's father Joe Sier, played for Melb 1979-1980 in U19s.
 
For those with Ancestry - does William Henry Stokesberry (b: 1896 - d: 1981) have a tree at all.
or, does Joseph Allwood Stokesberry ( b: circa 1872/73 d: Oct 1952) have a tree.

Cause perhaps family story/history may shed some additional light on this.
 
35Daicos said:
It would be interesting to know what inspired footnote No.4 on the wiki page.
Click to expand...
That was added by "Lindsay658" in a bunch of edits in early June last year. Does anyone know him? He edits a fair a bit about Victorian sporting history. I've left him a message on his talk page to ask for his sources.
 
rbartlett said:
For those with Ancestry - does William Henry Stokesberry (b: 1896 - d: 1981) have a tree at all.
or, does Joseph Allwood Stokesberry ( b: circa 1872/73 d: Oct 1952) have a tree.

Cause perhaps family story/history may shed some additional light on this.
Click to expand...

Rhett, there are a handful of people who have created a family tree on Ancestry which includes both WH & JA Stokesberry.
Three are public, the others are private. No reference to football, but that is not unexpected in documents such as those because they tend to include public record items such as names, addresses, employment info and military service, rather than "social history" like sports career or other popular culture connections.

Could send them a message asking if they've ever heard of any link to Richmond, if you'd like me to ?
 
the croucher said:
Rhett, there are a handful of people who have created a family tree on Ancestry which includes both WH & JA Stokesberry.
Three are public, the others are private. No reference to football, but that is not unexpected in documents such as those because they tend to include public record items such as names, addresses, employment info and military service, rather than "social history" like sports career or other popular culture connections.

Could send them a message asking if they've ever heard of any link to Richmond, if you'd like me to ?
Click to expand...

Well perhaps please just reach out and ask them if they know of anyone on the family tree who had a connection with Richmond Football Club.
You never know your luck.
 
rbartlett said:
Bringing this over from the 'small questions' thread

Is Collingwood's Brayden Sier any relation at all to Ken Sier (1940-47 Fitz, 1948-50 Richmond) and his brother Gerry Sier (1948-49 Fitz, 1950 Richmond).
Brayden's father Joe Sier, played for Melb 1979-1980 in U19s.
Click to expand...
You may wish to peruse this site and contact the creator

The Sier Family - Family Tree

A TribalPages.com Family Tree genealogy website researching Sier, Ketterer, Ibbetson, Barman, Rushton, Castle, Wrenn, Hobden, McCarthy, Noakes and other surnames.
sierfamily.tribalpages.com

It is locked on living people but an email query may provide answers.
 

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Just wondering if anyone has access to Ancestry if they could tell me if Bill Morris (Richmond 1942-1951) who was born James William McClaren (or McLaren) Morris on 24 April 1921 in Culcairn , was the son of a Scotsman? Was Bill's father born in Scotland?
 
rbartlett said:
Just wondering if anyone has access to Ancestry if they could tell me if Bill Morris (Richmond 1942-1951) who was born James William McClaren (or McLaren) Morris on 24 April 1921 in Culcairn , was the son of a Scotsman? Was Bill's father born in Scotland?
Click to expand...

Rhett, looks like Bill was son of a Scotsman.

Ancestry family tree refs show father as James McLaren Morris, born in Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland in 1886
and when this person dies in Victoria in November 1965 the same place of birth information is shown.

Further confirmation - Both Bill M and James M M are listed in 1949 electoral roll as living in Powlett St, East Melbourne,
an address noted as being visited by Alf Brown in his article about Morris's 1948 Brownlow Medal win.
trove.nla.gov.au

Pale-Faced Brownlow[?] Winner Not Typical Tiger - By ALF BROWN - The Herald (Melbourne, Vic. : 1861 - 1954) - 7 Sep 1948

Pale-faced, good-looking Bill Morris became even paler end began to tremble with excitement when I broke the news to him last night that he was the 1948 Brownlow ...
trove.nla.gov.au trove.nla.gov.au
 
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rbartlett said:
Just wondering if anyone has access to Ancestry if they could tell me if Bill Morris (Richmond 1942-1951) who was born James William McClaren (or McLaren) Morris on 24 April 1921 in Culcairn , was the son of a Scotsman? Was Bill's father born in Scotland?
Click to expand...
ScotlandsPeople has James McLaren Morris born in Dunfermline 1886

No marriage to Silvia in Scotland
 
rbartlett said:
Ah right, and this article sheds more light saying his father was Scottishand mother was New Zealand and they moved to Western suburbs of Melbourne.

No Cookies | Herald Sun

No Cookies
www.heraldsun.com.au www.heraldsun.com.au

Cool, thanks all.
Click to expand...
He served in the (Australian) Army in WW1, if that's of any interest. His army records indicate that he went to school in New Zealand.

Bill enlisted for WW2, which I presume you would be aware of.
 
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AFL Tables has Tony Hirst and Brent Jones both wearing #53 in Hirst's two MFC games (Round 11/12 1966)

Luckily, the Footy Record on SLV for Round 11 is the Melbourne game and shows Jones in #34, which was originally worn by Bob Russell for two games Round 1 and 2.

Round 2 Record shows Jones in #53 but that's the last of our Records until R11. By any fluke chance does anyone have MFC game Footy Records from Round 4 to Round 10, 1966 that can prove if he ever played a senior game in #53?

To complicate matters he was #34 on the list in 1965. I suspect that he was listed as #53 but Russell was ditched from the list before Round 4 and Brent went back to his old number and the historical record needs to be corrected but waiting for proof. Certainly right to say that his last three games of the year were in #34 and have updated Demonwiki accordingly.

As an added bonus here's Brent having his hair cut:
712187
 
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D
Supermercado said:
AFL Tables has Tony Hirst and Brent Jones both wearing #53 in Hirst's two MFC games (Round 11/12 1966)

Luckily, the Footy Record on SLV for Round 11 is the Melbourne game and shows Jones in #34, which was originally worn by Bob Russell for two games Round 1 and 2.

Round 2 Record shows Jones in #53 but that's the last of our Records until R11. By any fluke chance does anyone have MFC game Footy Records from Round 4 to Round 10, 1966 that can prove if he ever played a senior game in #53?

To complicate matters he was #34 on the list in 1965. I suspect that he was listed as #53 but Russell was ditched from the list before Round 4 and Brent went back to his old number and the historical record needs to be corrected but waiting for proof. Certainly right to say that his last three games of the year were in #34 and have updated Demonwiki accordingly.

As an added bonus here's Brent having his hair cut:
View attachment 712187
Click to expand...
Doesnt help much but in Rd 3 Record, Jones is #53, and Bob Russell is #34
 
rbartlett said:
Doesnt help much but in Rd 3 Record, Jones is #53, and Bob Russell is #34
Click to expand...

Thanks, I have put it to some MFC collectors in the hope they might have more info. He might have even played one or two in #53 then switched when Russell departed.
 
Random request, but does anyone have a State Library of Victoria barcode I can borrow for a bit of recent newspaper online research? Am on a Friday deadline and didn't realise my card has expired and a new one won't be posted out in time. PM me, thanks.
 
Supermercado said:
AFL Tables has Tony Hirst and Brent Jones both wearing #53 in Hirst's two MFC games (Round 11/12 1966)

Luckily, the Footy Record on SLV for Round 11 is the Melbourne game and shows Jones in #34, which was originally worn by Bob Russell for two games Round 1 and 2.

Round 2 Record shows Jones in #53 but that's the last of our Records until R11. By any fluke chance does anyone have MFC game Footy Records from Round 4 to Round 10, 1966 that can prove if he ever played a senior game in #53?

To complicate matters he was #34 on the list in 1965. I suspect that he was listed as #53 but Russell was ditched from the list before Round 4 and Brent went back to his old number and the historical record needs to be corrected but waiting for proof. Certainly right to say that his last three games of the year were in #34 and have updated Demonwiki accordingly.
Click to expand...

Thanks to Joel at GrandOldFlag.net and his collection of MFC footy records confirmed that Jones wore #53 in Rounds 4, 5, 6 and #34 in Round 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 and 18. Will send an update to AFL Tables, but please note AustralianFootball and anyone else who has game by game team lists.
 
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The Wikipedia page of Charlie Ross has this photo:
717458
And this one for Gordon Ross:
717460
Blueseum shows the same photo(s): http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-index.php?page=Gordon Ross || http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-index.php?page=Charlie+Ross

There's a 1904 Carlton team photo on Boyles with C. Ross: http://www.boylesfootballphotos.net.au/Carlton Team Photos
717462
So this should be Charlie! You can see that it's G. Ross in a 1903 photo (on Boyles), and that's the one that's been used.
I've sent a message to Blueseum.
 

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Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records

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