Loans

[UL NVR WLK ALN]

Right, Imagine this... Hypothetical ofcourse!

You are the Coach of a Team and you havea Wayne Carey type center half forward at age 29 and you have another upcoming 19 year old potential superstar. One is the present, One is the future. Now the fact of the matter is the young bloke cannot do what the older bloke can yet but he will be able to, the future is him but the older guy keeps him out of the team so he cant get valuable match experience

Shouldn't the AFL be looking at introducing a system where a club like geelong that has Hawking in reserve can loan him out to a club like carlton who has.... Nobody!?

Seems maybe not all that fair to the club that the player comes from but atleast no genuine superstars are looked over because they never got the opportunities.

By the way, I'm a massive fan of an AFL Reserve competition, Why stop thereaswell, Why not have a u/17 comp aswell

 

[ruscy002]

Why would a club want to risk their young superstar realising that maybe the club they are loaning them to has a better culture, or better facilities, giving him a reason to want to leave?

That 29 Y.O. Carey type might be there for another four years. Hawkins goes, "well, I already know I'm not getting a shot here. I know exactly where I wanna go", putting Geelong in a terrible position come trade week because Hawkins has nominated a club that may be in a position to take them in the draft anyway.

It could work if incentives were in place, such as extra draft picks and sallary cap concessions for the lessor, and the use of pre-determined trade terms should the player want to move.

Could work, but for me the idea kind of bastardises the concept of building a team from the players you have and the picks you get. Would certainly be interesting if it were raised by the AFL as an idea.

 

[Stiffy_18]

The loan system is the one that works beautifully in some other sports, namely soccer and in some european basketball leagues. It works a treat especially for the strong powerhouse clubs who have talented younger players that need game time at high level to develop but are held back by stars already in the team.

Loan the player our for 6 months or a year and get him back match ready and experienced to be a regular top player for you.

However, I don't know if it would work in the AFL as the culture is SO different and the competition isn't as broad as its in europe. It sounds great in practice but in theory it probably wouldn't work.

Lets take Geelong and Hawkins as mentioned above as an example. Lets say Adelaide are in great need of a forward and its one thing stopping them from contention. Why exactly would Geelong loan out their young up and coming superstar to their rival that could actually lead to Hawkins being the missing ingridient for Adelaide to get the flag by beating Geelong in a GF?

I think the AFL is a competition thats designed on equity where as leagues where you have a loan system are generally ruled by a few richer clubs that loan their player out to lower ranked clubs in the league so the players can get some game time. In that sort of environment it works but I am not sure it would work well in the AFL. Not to mention the risk factor in terms of long term injury or as mentioned above, just deciding to leave the current club all together for the one that you are loaned to.

 

[Southerntakeover]

The loan system is the one that works beautifully in some other sports, namely soccer and in some european basketball leagues. It works a treat especially for the strong powerhouse clubs who have talented younger players that need game time at high level to develop but are held back by stars already in the team.

Works best in leagues without a salary cap. That sort of equalisation policy should prevent teams from stacking talent so deep they can afford to 'loan' them to other clubs.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Works best in leagues without a salary cap. That sort of equalisation policy should prevent teams from stacking talent so deep they can afford to 'loan' them to other clubs.

Fair call!

Thats why I mentioned the structure of competition being different with AFL. However, I am pretty sure that Seria A has salary cap. Or it did not too long ago but clubs still loaned out players to get them developed.

 

[Mismatched]

The loan system is the one that works beautifully in some other sports, namely soccer and in some european basketball leagues. It works a treat especially for the strong powerhouse clubs who have talented younger players that need game time at high level to develop but are held back by stars already in the team.

Loan the player our for 6 months or a year and get him back match ready and experienced to be a regular top player for you.

However, I don't know if it would work in the AFL as the culture is SO different and the competition isn't as broad as its in europe. It sounds great in practice but in theory it probably wouldn't work.

Lets take Geelong and Hawkins as mentioned above as an example. Lets say Adelaide are in great need of a forward and its one thing stopping them from contention. Why exactly would Geelong loan out their young up and coming superstar to their rival that could actually lead to Hawkins being the missing ingridient for Adelaide to get the flag by beating Geelong in a GF?

I think the AFL is a competition thats designed on equity where as leagues where you have a loan system are generally ruled by a few richer clubs that loan their player out to lower ranked clubs in the league so the players can get some game time. In that sort of environment it works but I am not sure it would work well in the AFL. Not to mention the risk factor in terms of long term injury or as mentioned above, just deciding to leave the current club all together for the one that you are loaned to.

Agree with stiff here, our competition is too even and even then, why would a club want a player for just 6 months, clubs tend to want blokes who are goint to play years for them not just 6 months.

The AFL is such an even comp no team is that arrogant to think that they can just loan out their players to other teams without it coming back to bite them, eg if an injury suddenly occured and that player was needed.

Works great with other leagues, but AFL is a very unique game, thats what makes it so great, so it is very hard to introduce things that work in other leagues, as they often just don't work.

Its a good idea, I just don't think it is for us.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Agree with stiff here, our competition is too even and even then, why would a club want a player for just 6 months, clubs tend to want blokes who are goint to play years for them not just 6 months.

The AFL is such an even comp no team is that arrogant to think that they can just loan out their players to other teams without it coming back to bite them, eg if an injury suddenly occured and that player was needed.

Works great with other leagues, but AFL is a very unique game, thats what makes it so great, so it is very hard to introduce things that work in other leagues, as they often just don't work.

Its a good idea, I just don't think it is for us.

I think that its also partly to do with the pool of players and competitions to draw from.

In the AFL you have 16 clubs with 38-40 players on the list. Thats 600 odd players to draw from.

Take soccer for example, an Italian Seria A club could loan out their player to Boca Juniors in Argentina for example or some club in Spanish league. Similarly, they can get a player on loan from pretty much anywhere. Much great pool of players to draw from and hence decreases the chance of getting bitten on the backside by loaning a player out to a rival.

In the AFL, there is no such luxury because compared to other sports, its really a small pool of players that are available in the competition overall.

 

[Farmy]

Loan Players

No thanks

AFL Reserve League

No thanks

More AFL Teams

No thanks

 

[Pride of SA]

and how long would the system last when the first player is handed back to their 'owner club' with their knee ACL joint a mess?

perceived risk of injuries is a big reason SoO is dead, I cant see any team risking a potential gun when they wont have control over his development during that time or esposure to injury.

 

[- PC -]

SA and WA teams already loan their players out

Its called The State Leagues

The risk of injury is just as great in that league and some players can go backwards under a poor clubs philosophy

Looking at you Norwood and Westies

 

[macca23]

and how long would the system last when the first player is handed back to their 'owner club' with their knee ACL joint a mess?
perceived risk of injuries is a big reason SoO is dead, I cant see any team risking a potential gun when they wont have control over his development during that time or esposure to injury.

Bingo!!

Wouldn't our fans carry on - I definitely would - if we lent Tippett out to Carlton and they handed him back in Hentschel like condition??

The injury factor also aplies to SOO which has become an absurd concept. I am so sick of hearing KG carrying on about its demise like a petulant child.

SOO had relevance when there was no Crows or no Power. It had meaning, as there was nothing else on a state v state basis.

Other than when we play Showdowns, there are now two games every week which translate to South Australia v another state.

 

[Rugged_Battler]

don't agree with loans but the mid-season draft (during the rest week) may be beneficial. just as a precaution for players like Capuano (St Kilda ruckman) a few years ago. I know clubs aren't allowed to delist players mid season anymore so there wont be any more "free agents" floating around but clubs may still need to plug gaps from injured players or swap out of form players that may benefit from a change of setting. Nothing really happens in trade week so who cares if nothing much happens then either... it's just there for clubs to use if they need to.

 

[Mismatched]

don't agree with loans but the mid-season draft (during the rest week) may be beneficial. just as a precaution for players like Capuano (St Kilda ruckman) a few years ago. I know clubs aren't allowed to delist players mid season anymore so there wont be any more "free agents" floating around but clubs may still need to plug gaps from injured players or swap out of form players that may benefit from a change of setting. Nothing really happens in trade week so who cares if nothing much happens then either... it's just there for clubs to use if they need to.

Good idea. I think a mid-season draft or trade week makes as much if not more sense than loaning players, that way if you do get an injury, you could enlist a player from the SANFL say to cover this loss, similarly you could trade for a player who isn't getting much of a game at another club, yet could fill a whole for you, same way you'd trade out a similar type player.

In saying that, I don't think it will come in and the only thing i think really needs changing is the PSD, where it needs to be abolished altogether, if a player wants to screw their club over and go to a shitty club for free, make that shitty club actually have to give something of value up for that player, in a top round draft pick. That way trade week would be much fairer for the interstate clubs who don't spend time on the bottom of the ladder.

 

[BlackDouglas]

SA and WA teams already loan their players out

Its called The State Leagues

The risk of injury is just as great in that league and some players can go backwards under a poor clubs philosophy

Looking at you Norwood and Westies

Was going to post something like this a few days ago but went offline.

Don’t we already do this under the SANFL player transfer agreement? Only difference it is done on a week to week basis not on a long term deals where the club of origin doesn’t train that player.

Just out of interest can a player be transferred internally via a loan agreement from one Serie A club to another? (For example) go from AC Milan to Lazio or in the EPL from Liverpool to Manchester United?

I understand that this can happen when clubs sell a player but can it be done under the loan agreement?

 

[Stiffy_18]

Just out of interest can a player be transferred internally via a loan agreement from one Serie A club to another? (For example) go from AC Milan to Lazio or in the EPL from Liverpool to Manchester United?

I understand that this can happen when clubs sell a player but can it be done under the loan agreement?

Yes it can. Clubs can loan out players to the rivals in the same league. There is no restrictions in place to disallow this. Over the years there have been some examples in seria A where a player from one club was on the loan to another in the same league.

As for the thing about "loaning" our player to the SANFL sides, thats not the point of this thread. The point is to loan out the players to clubs in the same competition to get them developed. If a player is too good for SANFL and should play at AFL level to keep developing, but can't break into the side ATM, those are the sort of player that could be up for loans to other AFL clubs.

 

[CrowMagnum]

In most soccer leagues around the world, finishing down the bottom is punished by relegation so clubs do anything to avoid it, including using loan players for short term results at the expense of not developing their youth. In our Bizarro league we actually reward clubs for bad performance by dishing out priority picks so why would the bottom scavengers want a loan player to finish just a little higher.

 

[UL NVR WLK ALN]

In most soccer leagues around the world, finishing down the bottom is punished by relegation so clubs do anything to avoid it, including using loan players for short term results at the expense of not developing their youth. In our Bizarro league we actually reward clubs for bad performance by dishing out priority picks so why would the bottom scavengers want a loan player to finish just a little higher.

Alright, I admit it!!! Stupidest thing i've ever said, Didn't think it through. Shut down. Loans was a bad idea.
But I still agree with a Reserve League and an Under 17 Comp where a select few of the best junior can showcase their talent weekly in a publicised competition, C'mon you guys can't tell me you wouldn't mind watchin another couple of Adelaide teams running around and the Reverves to play before the Seniors, It would be good to see all the guys that don't get a game week in week out getting a kick together, then you'd be able to get a far more accurate picture of who's decent and who not.

 

[Asgardian]

I do not see loaning players working, but I still believe their should be some form of free agency.

Sure the fine points need lots of thrashing out, but in the end it will mean the players have more of a say on the direction their own life will take.