Long term players...

[Mav]

I did use the words "absolute certainties".
At least eight of those players you've listed are far from that, for a variety of reasons. Including some of which have yet to play.

No one’s an absolute certainty. Just ask JWS.

 

[Mav]

Turn it up Mav.

 

[kool kangas]

Which players out there today are absolute certainties to be good players for us over a long period?
LDU
Sheezel
Logue
Curtis
Zurhaar
Larkey?
Comben? If he stays fit.

Phillips and Powell are miles off it.
Taylor and Scott are terrible at moment.
I'm assuming McKay wants out based on his half arsed efforts.

Our list is deplorable and that's mainly on Rawling.

l dont think he's efforts are half arsed more like he's having trouble adjusting to the zone defence Clarko want him to play. He has only played 2 games so far this season. If he finds in himself that he cant adjust to the game plan he will most likely leave but will give himself time to try and adjust to it and l still believe it is not a money issue..North and Ben will negotiate his next contract but performance will be the main issue on whether he stays or goes. Negotiations are on going and just because nothing has be said yet in the media doesn't mean he wants out...Just wait and see and have patience..

 

[shinboner magic]

Drafting and subsequent player development has and still is the biggest issue we have at this club. It’s been deplorable for near on 15 years.

So many kids out there are having a consistent impact 2-3 years into their career while ours take 4-6 to get going, then they plateau and we are left with C and D graders.

It needs to be rectified and it needs to be rectified ******* fast.

Why is our development of players lacking compared to other clubs.

 

[groo]

Why is our development of players lacking compared to other clubs.

Our playing leaders have been walk up starts, despite moderate fitness levels and on ground performances. That environment doesn't drive standards and young players can be disheartened when their good form isn't rewarde, but, others don't seem to have to meet the same standards.
McMillan, McDonald, Atley, Ziebel ( doing well this year but shouldn't have needed a coach yo motivate him), Turner, Dumont, Gibson and Power. Each had large runs of consecutive games despite poor performances. Some of these guys left the club aged around 28, un-injured with 150+ games behind them. Other teams didn't want them, those players that did luck in generally played just one season before their new club threw them in the bin.

 

[Passmore]

Why is our development of players lacking compared to other clubs.

We’ve been shopping in the bargain bin for coaches for a while. This feels like the first year we’ve opened the cheque book.

 

[Makeshift Park]

In Mav's defence, Clarko keeps returning to this notion that by and large the players that will make us a finals contender are already at the club.

That suggests a number greater than a dozen to me.

Of the ones Mav listed...

LDU
Sheezel
Simpkin
Larkey
Comben
Logue
Wardlaw
B.George
Powell
P.Curtis
Goater
Bergman
Xerri
Phillips
Harvey
Drury
Zurhaar

...the only one I'd be a bit surprised if he's still around in four years time is probably Harvey.

So that's 16 players.

Add a couple more KPP, a fast and skillful outside mid or two, at least one more small forward, and another ruck, plus another 50 or so games experience to that list, and that might not be so far off the contender list Clarko has in mind.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Why is our development of players lacking compared to other clubs.

- Poor coaching standards across over the last 5/6 years

- players being over coached or not being allowed to play to their strengths

- poor leadership at all levels of the club both on field and off field

- limited or no support in the VFL program

- poor fitness and strength standards at the club.

- poor training standards

- terrible injury management, resulting in players getting injured in key development years (years 1-4)

- players getting extended runs at AFL level with little to no consequences for poor form (Turner, McDonald ect)

That’s just the things I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[justroyal]

Interesting to hear Clarkson saying that if we don’t make any improvement and get pumped - the kids play

 

[lockheed]

In Mav's defence, Clarko keeps returning to this notion that by and large the players that will make us a finals contender are already at the club.

I'll admit that I missed Clarko saying that.

Oh mighty GR, is this a clip that you can easily find?

 

[Harris 10]

Interesting to hear Clarkson saying that if we don’t make any improvement and get pumped - the kids play

Where did he say that?

 

[Event Horizon]

Where did he say that?

In today's presser

 

[Event Horizon]

Interesting to hear Clarkson saying that if we don’t make any improvement and get pumped - the kids play

Yes, except he didn't say it about this week's game in particular. He was talking about the next few weeks

 

[Harris 10]

In today's presser

Cheers, I'll have a listen

 

[Mixed Results]

For a side that's about five years off its apex, you'd be happy with about 10 on the list currently who make it to our next flag.

LDU, Sheezel, Simpkin, Zurhaar, Logue, Larkey, Stephenson and Comben are the group currently playing at a good level who should still be on our list in five years. If Mckay re-signs, then that's another.

I think there's enough reason already to be confident on Wardlaw, so you're already at 10, and we're not going to miss on all of Powell, Phillips, Curtis, Bergman, George, Goater etc.

We'll probably average 7-9 list changes for the next five years, so that's another 35-45 players to be brought in, ranging from top draft picks to mature pick-ups. I don't think this is a major area of concern. The 26 and up group is more worrying than the 25 and under.

 

[Makeshift Park]

I'll admit that I missed Clarko saying that.

Oh mighty GR, is this a clip that you can easily find?

The latest iteration of that response is at about 16.05 in today's presser:

'They're a high quality opponent': Clarkson on Demons

North Melbourne senior coach Alastair Clarkson speaks to the media ahead of our Round 7 clash against Melbourne

www.nmfc.com.au

He first said it when he first took the job, and he's repeated it a few times since.

"We'll explore draft, trade and free agency mechanisms, but by and large we'll get better with the people we have."

North Melbourne coach Alastair Clarkson speaks on Roos choice, failed Bombers advances, off-season plans

"It was really out of respect that I listened to what they had to say. Due diligence takes a lot longer than four days."

www.zerohanger.com

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

For a side that's about five years off its apex, you'd be happy with about 10 on the list currently who make it to our next flag.

LDU, Sheezel, Simpkin, Zurhaar, Logue, Larkey, Stephenson and Comben are the group currently playing at a good level who should still be on our list in five years. If Mckay re-signs, then that's another.

I think there's enough reason already to be confident on Wardlaw, so you're already at 10, and we're not going to miss on all of Powell, Phillips, Curtis, Bergman, George, Goater etc.

We'll probably average 7-9 list changes for the next five years, so that's another 35-45 players to be brought in, ranging from top draft picks to mature pick-ups. I don't think this is a major area of concern. The 26 and up group is more worrying than the 25 and under.

The 26-30 age group is devoid of anything resembling quality AFL standard footballers.

 

[Mixed Results]

The 26-30 age group is devoid of anything resembling quality AFL standard footballers.

Exactly. It was the problem last year, it's the problem this year, and it'll be the problem next year.

Hawthorn are the team that everyone says culled their senior depth, but they still have Sicily, Amon, Frost, Wingard, Impey, and Hardwick in that group. For us it's only Tucker, Turner, Howe, Corr, and McDonald. You look at the Saints at the top of the ladder and they have about 16 reliable players in that group.

I just don't understand looking at our current situation and pointing the finger at Powell and Phillips for not developing quick enough.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Exactly. It was the problem last year, it's the problem this year, and it'll be the problem next year.

Hawthorn are the team that everyone says culled their senior depth, but they still have Sicily, Amon, Frost, Wingard, Impey, and Hardwick in that group. For us it's only Tucker, Turner, Howe, Corr, and McDonald. You look at the Saints at the top of the ladder and they have about 16 reliable players in that group.

I just don't understand looking at our current situation and pointing the finger at Powell and Phillips for not developing quick enough.

What a complete cluster**** that list is….

 

[shintemaster]

Yes, except he didn't say it about this week's game in particular. He was talking about the next few weeks

Yeah.

My read was that he's saying that some senior players have been getting games to help provide stability and physical protection to the younger bodies. My further read is that if we continue to bleed huge losses then he sees more gain in blooding younger players that might not be ready than in having a handful less of them experience exactly that.

TLDR version:
Players pulling their weight, getting to the right spots, hitting bodies hard and delivering within their means can stay, others are on thin ****ing ice.

Exactly. It was the problem last year, it's the problem this year, and it'll be the problem next year.

Hawthorn are the team that everyone says culled their senior depth, but they still have Sicily, Amon, Frost, Wingard, Impey, and Hardwick in that group. For us it's only Tucker, Turner, Howe, Corr, and McDonald. You look at the Saints at the top of the ladder and they have about 16 reliable players in that group.

I just don't understand looking at our current situation and pointing the finger at Powell and Phillips for not developing quick enough.

Yep.

To be honest we've had this issue for the most part for a decade and have at times delivered in spite of it through sheer talent from a handful of elite players. Going into 2024-25 we should expect some of our better players to hit that age group (Simpkin, Logue, Zurhaar, Larkey amongst a couple of others). When the next group behind them is stepping up as emerging 22-24 year olds supported by talent in that age group above then we can expect to begin to deliver. Hopefully a couple of trades end of this year can bolster that group with real talent 26-30.

 

[ferball]

In Mav's defence, Clarko keeps returning to this notion that by and large the players that will make us a finals contender are already at the club.

That suggests a number greater than a dozen to me.

Of the ones Mav listed...


...the only one I'd be a bit surprised if he's still around in four years time is probably Harvey.

So that's 16 players.

Add a couple more KPP, a fast and skillful outside mid or two, at least one more small forward, and another ruck, plus another 50 or so games experience to that list, and that might not be so far off the contender list Clarko has in mind.

I thought Harvey looked good at times in the VFL on the weekend. It was his first game back from significant injury wasn't it?

 

[DesertRoo]

Exactly. It was the problem last year, it's the problem this year, and it'll be the problem next year.

Hawthorn are the team that everyone says culled their senior depth, but they still have Sicily, Amon, Frost, Wingard, Impey, and Hardwick in that group. For us it's only Tucker, Turner, Howe, Corr, and McDonald. You look at the Saints at the top of the ladder and they have about 16 reliable players in that group.

I just don't understand looking at our current situation and pointing the finger at Powell and Phillips for not developing quick enough.

You want to know where hawthorn are in their rebuild, check the vfl ladder. It’ll give more of an indication into their future.

 

[Samsquanch]

I know (almost) everybody here likes Comben, but surely it's too early to post him into the long term player category. Injuries, bad luck or whatever, his career so far in AFL matches has relatively few highlights. I'll be more than happy for him to make it to 200+ and a few top 5 B&F finishes but on exposed form that's wishful.

 

[lockheed]

I know (almost) everybody here likes Comben, but surely it's too early to post him into the long term player category. Injuries, bad luck or whatever, his career so far in AFL matches has relatively few highlights. I'll be more than happy for him to make it to 200+ and a few top 5 B&F finishes but on exposed form that's wishful.

You're right. He's only played eight games. It's looking better now but we can't be certain, for example, that his body can go an entire season without breaking down.

In his favour, he's are most likely contested mark in our forward line. If he doesn't mark the ball, he generally brings it to ground. He provides genuine pressure when the ball is on the ground and he shows the aggression that we all wish that Goldstein and Larkey had.

There's no certainty, but if he stays fit and continues to improve, Comben will be the player we can build our forward line around.

 

[scottywiper]

List of long term locks shortening by the week.... Sadly.