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BL is absolutely right, Young was the turnover king. Both BL and I wish Young well with the Blues.
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Luke Beveridge - Our Mastermind
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Fossie 32
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- #102
You might be interested to see what the Carlton board think of him - though I know the answer is they don't know anything about their own players like we do
Senior - 33. Lewis Young
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Thanks, F32, I really hope that Young is better at the 'Blues than with us.You might be interested to see what the Carlton board think of him - though I know the answer is they don't know anything about their own players like we do
Senior - 33. Lewis Young
www.bigfooty.com
Fossie 32
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- #104
Well it seems pretty obvious to me that he is already.
I don't really agree with the view that he was given the chance to settle into one position. Even if that was true, it is unfortunate that the club were unable to get the best out of a player that showed quite a bit of promise in a position that needs strengthening in our side. Not sure whether there is an element of resentment for players that leave that comes into it when we evaluate them.
- Oct 11, 2014
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There is a lot opinions here that want their cake and eat it at the same time. They agree Bevo is our greatest coach and his record of a flag and grand final with making the finals in six of eight seasons is a fine record. Yet a lot are putting him on notice, if he wins the last last season this talk would not even being raised.
Kane Cornes is absolute flog and shock jock and Bevo whacked him over his attack on Treloar last season. Yes Bevo is an eccentric a lot of good coaches are and he will never win the battle with the press going to far to protect his players and team.
However the talk of Bevo not being the coach to take us forward is crazy and he will be a 2 times flag coach in the next few years.
Kane Cornes is absolute flog and shock jock and Bevo whacked him over his attack on Treloar last season. Yes Bevo is an eccentric a lot of good coaches are and he will never win the battle with the press going to far to protect his players and team.
However the talk of Bevo not being the coach to take us forward is crazy and he will be a 2 times flag coach in the next few years.
Snarls Barkley
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Agreed. After his first season, don’t think he ever played more than three games in a row in defense. Not sure how you could argue he was given a chance to settle into that position. Last year was the perfect example, perfect chance to play him for half a season to see what we had when Gardner went down. Was brilliant against Brisbane in Ballarat, a little down against the Suns in a ten goal win, straight out of the side and not seen again for three months.
He still has holes in his game for sure, has moments which would still be a frustrating player to watch. But he should definitely still be in our side and would be our best key defender right now.
I to expect him to win another 2 with this list.
I do not think he can without some decent assistance who manage game plan and actually have a say in team selection. Let’s hope the club realises this and beverage can stick to what he’s good at which is motivation, player Managemnt and story telling. Leave game plan, Strategy and team selection to some quality assistance and not yes men who have minimal coaching experience at AFL.
if we do not win a flag in the next few years the club it is a fail. Will probably take another 45 years again.
- Sep 22, 2008
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In all honesty we haven’t build a gameplan /system that can stand up to a full, consistent home & away season under Bev, I don’t think that’s going to change after 8 years - would there be many examples of coaches who have turned results around after 8 years?
We may win another flag under him, but if we do it will be down to another impressive finals run at the right time - which is not bloody easy, as we know you need absolutely everything to go right if that’s your method. I think it’s much much more likely that we don’t win another one under current management at this rate.
We may win another flag under him, but if we do it will be down to another impressive finals run at the right time - which is not bloody easy, as we know you need absolutely everything to go right if that’s your method. I think it’s much much more likely that we don’t win another one under current management at this rate.
- Oct 30, 2014
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Ameet Bains heard and responded to everything Kane Cornes threw at Bevo this morning. Kane believes we should be much higher on the ladder with our list. Ameet defended Bevo publicly straight afterwards and said he’d taken us to 6 finals series in 8 years coaching and two Grand Finals. But Ameet is no dill, and is hopefully questioning why we have never made top, 4 and reviews to coaching situation, with lack of experience in assistants and a strong person keeping head coach in line on selections and game plan especially.
- Nov 16, 2015
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The radio/audio clip of Baines that someone posted in the Media thread. Baines didn’t seemed too fazed by ladder positions. Mentioned the club has bought in to Bevo’s theory that if a club can peak at finals time, it’s not a massive issue where the end of season ladder position falls, as long as we’re in finals.
Suggests the club isn’t overly concerned with lack of top 4 finishes. Makes sense considering a premiership is the same regardless where you finish at the end of H&A games.
I’m tipping we’ll strengthen our list and coaching group in the off season, we’ll play finals next season, and Bevo will get an extension. If he wants one.
It’s a good result considering the quality of coach he is, and the fact it’s incredibly difficult to find a coach that can take teams to GF’s and win Premierships. Something important that plenty in here forget.
Our fwd line will be the strongest it’s been in recent memory in the next few years. Our defence will be stronger if rumours are true, plus we still have the best midfield in the comp. The next few years will see our list in its strongest position in the Bevo era. I’d be spewing if we ended up wasting those years riding the shit coaches merry go round with Rutten and Cameron types just because the club decides that top 4 finishes every year is the only pass mark.
Suggests the club isn’t overly concerned with lack of top 4 finishes. Makes sense considering a premiership is the same regardless where you finish at the end of H&A games.
I’m tipping we’ll strengthen our list and coaching group in the off season, we’ll play finals next season, and Bevo will get an extension. If he wants one.
It’s a good result considering the quality of coach he is, and the fact it’s incredibly difficult to find a coach that can take teams to GF’s and win Premierships. Something important that plenty in here forget.
Our fwd line will be the strongest it’s been in recent memory in the next few years. Our defence will be stronger if rumours are true, plus we still have the best midfield in the comp. The next few years will see our list in its strongest position in the Bevo era. I’d be spewing if we ended up wasting those years riding the shit coaches merry go round with Rutten and Cameron types just because the club decides that top 4 finishes every year is the only pass mark.
dogwatch
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Are you sure Bains wasn't just rationalising a disappointing H&A season? If he honestly isn't fussed whether we make the four then we have the wrong bloke in the job!
There's a reason why top four is so critical. In 27 seasons of the top 8 playing finals, no side other than us in 2016 has won a flag without having earned the double-chance. Not even Adelaide who finished fifth in 1998. Under a different finals system they lost their first final before winning three straight. These days you must finish top four to earn the double-chance.
I haven't heard anybody suggest that finishing top 4 every single year should be the club's pass mark. However if our list is as good as you suggest then something like 2 of the next 4 would be a reasonable expectation.
- Nov 16, 2015
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In comparison to the expectations from supporters in Big Footy, his comments would be taken that finishing Top 4 wasn’t the be all and end all. I certainly took from it that the club is more than happy having Beveridge at the helm and that finals, GF’s and Premiership tilts amongst 8 years is considered a good result.
You haven’t heard anyone using top 4 as a pass mark with our apparent worlds greatest list? I find that hard to believe DW. There’s a few recent posters that hold that view.
Not many make the GF from outside the Top 4 either, but that’s changed in the last 8 years. The number of teams finishing Top 4 making it through to a prelim final has also dropped by almost 50% in that time. Times have changed, coaching has changed and the pre finals bye is a big game changer.
On our list, I’ve been pretty clear that it isn’t as good as some say. My comments were about the list over the coming years, which I anticipate will be better than what we’ve had and currently have running around. Again, i’d much prefer Bevo leading that group than taking the gamble on another.
Bevo
Clarko
Hardwick
Simpson
Goodwin
Only 5 premiership coaches in the last 10 years, across the whole comp. Out of almost 40. Shines a light on how difficult it is to have a quality coach leading your team. One should be careful what they wish for.
dogwatch
Premium Platinum
Finally got around to answering your question CB! (see above)
Yes I think a couple of top 4s in the period 2017-2022 would be a reasonable expectation. Usually that means 16 or more wins. Or 15 wins and a strong percentage in most years (we finished 7th with 15 wins in 2016 but that was a very unusual ladder).
We've had 11, 8, 12, 15 & 13 wins over those years, plus 10 wins from 17 games in 2020 which would be 13 wins if pro-rated to a 22 round season. We were unlucky to miss out in 2021 with 15 wins and a percentage of 132.8 so I'd be inclined to be lenient there, especially as we got revenge by beating Brisbane by a point in the SF.
More flags? More GFs? No, that's probably setting the bar too high. They are incredibly hard to win and you do need a fair bit of luck with injuries, umpiring decisions (ask Hardwick!), etc. Getting us to two GFs in 7 years is highly commendable and must be acknowledged but at the same time we shouldn't ignore what seem to be some missed opportunities in between.
Should having a somewhat deficient backline be taken into account? Hmmmm ... debatable. It was bad luck losing Adams but under Bevo's watch (and I'd suggest largely due to Bevo) we've also lost Roughead and Young who have performed well as tall defenders at other clubs. It was also Bevo's initiative to make Naughton a forward. I know that can be debated endlessly because he's done very well in that role but my point is that Bevo did have opportunities to forge a stronger backline.
dogwatch
Premium Platinum
Ah you've mis-quoted me, CB! I said "I haven't heard anybody suggest that finishing top 4 every single year ...".
Not even Clarko could achieve that with his great Hawthorn list.
After their surprise flag in 2008 they finished 9th then 7th before making top 4 five years in a row (with three flags of course).
Yes, there might be some here who expect top four to be achieved every single year for the duration of Bont's career but I think realistically even they would settle for a top four finish 5 years out of 10. That would be brilliant.
- Nov 16, 2015
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I think you need to include 15 and 16 when highlighting our win/loss record.
14, 15, 11, 8, 12, 13(2020), 15 & 13
Lull period across 17,18 and a late burst 2019. I think we can agree the list wasn’t in the best condition during these years? I think as a whole, our win loss record has been pretty impressive.
You bring up Roughy and Young as if we’d have a strong defence if those were given a better run? Personally, I’d add them to the list of ordinary defenders we’ve had since Bevo took over. And I think it just highlights what a poor defensive back 6 we’ve had in nearly every year since 2014.
100% List managment issues which Bevo needs to own. But, that doesn’t take away from the fact we’ve done pretty well with below average backlines and forward lines for the majority of his time at the club. Doesn’t matter who’s fault it is.
Bomber Thompson had won two finals in his first 7 years (didn't make finals more often than not). With one of the most talented lists in history (15+ AA standard players under him).
Hardwick didn't win a final in his first seven years (0/3). With Dusty, Cotchin, Reiwoldt and Rance in the their prime for a fair chunk of it.
Then it suddenly seemed to all 'click' for both.
Seven completed seasons in, Bevo is two grand finals, a flag and 6-7 finals wins ahead of the both of them.
Bomber turned out to have his demons, but Hardwick is a reasonable comparison of someone who became a 'dynasty' level coach who didn't finish top 4 once in his first 7 seasons.
If we fail this finals series, other than that one top 4 finish, Bevo's still equal or ahead of him on pretty much every other stat after 8 completed seasons.
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Not sure about anyone else, but finishing top four once would be nice.
For all Bevo’s achievements, which I accept/acknowledge and will be eternally grateful for, to not finish top four once in his entire tenure is bordering on ludicrous given some of the talent we have.
dogwatch
Premium Platinum
OK, but I thought the debate was all about how he'd done AFTER the 2016 flag. Nobody has argued that he didn't do extremely well in 2015-16.
In October 2016 he had the coaching job for life as far as anyone here was concerned. Most of the discussion has been about the mystifying (to most of us) missed opportunities after that, especially the dip that you point out from 2017-2019. Maybe even 2020 as well.
The 2022 H&A season was a disappointment to most of us here too. But let's see how that pans out. He will be largely vindicated if he can take us to at least a PF in the weeks ahead.
- Sep 22, 2008
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If the bloke takes us to multiple flags from outside the 4 then I’ll be the first to praise him - idk though the tried and true method of banking wins & grinding out a H&A season before timing your peak for the run into finals with the double chance seems like the preferred method tbh
Hard to say we’ve timed our run for finals well at all this year anyway considering we’ve been humiliated against good teams and underwhelming against shit teams in the run in before falling across the line into the 8.
Also last season could have ended very very differently if we’d locked up top 4 - winning 4 tough finals in a row for a flag just doesn’t happen, except of course for the single time it was pulled off in the history of the game (great season tho)
Hard to say we’ve timed our run for finals well at all this year anyway considering we’ve been humiliated against good teams and underwhelming against shit teams in the run in before falling across the line into the 8.
Also last season could have ended very very differently if we’d locked up top 4 - winning 4 tough finals in a row for a flag just doesn’t happen, except of course for the single time it was pulled off in the history of the game (great season tho)
- Sep 22, 2008
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Fair call, good comparisons that slipped my mind. Definitely possible, just seems unlikely for the most part
- Nov 16, 2015
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There’s also examples of coaches having success over different periods of long careers.
Malthouse took us to finals in the 80’s. 6 years later took WC to 2 flags across 3 seasons. 7 years later took the Pies to back to back GF’s. 8 years later took the Pies to a premiership.
Clarko dropped his bundle post 2008, went on to straighten things up in 2012,13,14,15.
- Nov 16, 2015
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Yeah fair enough. It’d had been so long, I forgot what you were responding to lol.
I’m gonna have to leave it at that for the night DW. I’m on to my 3rd Suntory 196 Double Lemon, after knocking back 5 G.O.A.T’s. I’m ready for shuteye.
- Aug 18, 2015
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Have to disagree with you on this. He was given plenty of backline games and pretty much they followed the same trend each time a couple good followed by a number of atrocious ones where he appeared spaced out ( check the GC game at Marvel last year which followed a good first up the week before against Bris, he really appeared not to be concentrating at all). I believe the move into ruck and other pos was a challenge to keep him in the game and concentrating
As far as one on one defending he was crap at that at the Dogs and is pretty much the same at the Blues but he has been allowed to play that floater at the Blues as they have other one on one types eg Weitering
When he had to play one on one cause weitering was injured against the Tigers Lynch took him apart
Look he is clearly playing better at the Blues but that’s like many other players a reflection of a new club new attitude but that may never have happened at the Dogs and I don’t believe it was lack of opportunity
- Aug 18, 2015
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That’s because he never played 3 decent games in a row and his bad ones were where he appeared not to be concentrating or showing intensity
He was not just down against GC he was not following the play at all desp it being a perfect opportunity to consolidate. We were on top that game their were no excuses for it.
if a McComb or someone like that had played a game with the lack of intensity Young showed that day this forum would have been organising a Lynch mob
