Unsolved Madeleine McCann

[Angry Red Bull]

Nobody's interested in prosecuting the McCanns except for a few internet die hards who can't admit that maybe they were wrong.



If they charge him in Germany, he's as good as done for it.

https://www.fairtrials.org/app/uploads/2022/01/Germany-advice-note.pdf

In criminal and administrative law, Germany uses an inquisitorial system where the judges are actively involved in investigating the facts of the case, as compared to an adversarial system where the role of the judge is primarily that of an impartial referee between the prosecutor or plaintiff and the defendant.



This is a truly terrible take.

Thanks for the insight into German system He is a German national but the crime is a Portugese crime if it is a crime. Not too sure of jurisdictional issues but I suspect him being named an Arguido means there is probably a necessity to extradite for charges there in Portugal. Could be wrong though and I have no idea if they follow the same system or not. Perhaps they do

As far as prosecuting McCann well I only want the people responsible to be held to account whoever they are Brueckner OR MCCann. At days end I thought that's what we all want. I happen to think that there was an accident with significant evidence pointing to that no matter what the hardcase McCann sympathisers think. As regards me thinking UK are complicit yes it is a truly horrible thought but it's not without foundation. We would have DNA done and financial records supplied and examined already if not for UK steadfastly refusing to do them. One of the investigators slanted to takeover Operation Grange refused to take the job because he was denied the right to freely investigate all leads including McCann. Says it all really and he's not an an internet diehard.

I don't buy into any of the emotive issues around the case. Only interested integrity of guilt verdicts. Brueckner is probably a horrible human being. Doesn't make him guilty here. McCann's probably are grief stricken pillars of the community. Doesn't make them innocent of hiding a deadly accident if they did.

 

[Kurve]

I happen to think that there was an accident with significant evidence pointing to that no matter what the hardcase McCann sympathisers think.

Rubbish. There is no evidence whatsoever of any kind of accident, none. The McCanns haven't been caught out lying about anything, there is evidence of an intruder in to that apartment which incidentally had been burgled several times in recent history prior to Madeleine going missing out of it.

As regards me thinking UK are complicit yes it is a truly horrible thought but it's not without foundation. We would have DNA done and financial records supplied and examined already if not for UK steadfastly refusing to do them. One of the investigators slanted to takeover Operation Grange refused to take the job because he was denied the right to freely investigate all leads including McCann. Says it all really and he's not an an internet diehard.

Their financial records have FA to do with Madeleine going missing in Portugal and the DNA is already done. You're hanging on to this like your life's work is trying to get something on the McCanns.

What really gets up my nose about this 'accident' theory on absolutely ZERO evidence, the theory's so bad it's cringeworthy, is that here in Australia with foster child William Tyrrell's disappearance it's beginning to appear that there may have been an accident covered up and pushed as an abduction. The contrast between these two cases could not be starker.

 

[jason_recliner]

Thanks for the insight into German system He is a German national but the crime is a Portugese crime if it is a crime. Not too sure of jurisdictional issues but I suspect him being named an Arguido means there is probably a necessity to extradite for charges there in Portugal. Could be wrong though and I have no idea if they follow the same system or not. Perhaps they do

As far as prosecuting McCann well I only want the people responsible to be held to account whoever they are Brueckner OR MCCann. At days end I thought that's what we all want. I happen to think that there was an accident with significant evidence pointing to that no matter what the hardcase McCann sympathisers think. As regards me thinking UK are complicit yes it is a truly horrible thought but it's not without foundation. We would have DNA done and financial records supplied and examined already if not for UK steadfastly refusing to do them. One of the investigators slanted to takeover Operation Grange refused to take the job because he was denied the right to freely investigate all leads including McCann. Says it all really and he's not an an internet diehard.

I don't buy into any of the emotive issues around the case. Only interested integrity of guilt verdicts. Brueckner is probably a horrible human being. Doesn't make him guilty here. McCann's probably are grief stricken pillars of the community. Doesn't make them innocent of hiding a deadly accident if they did.

The 'possibility' of a parent covering up an accident by trying to make it look like an abduction, and not getting caught after so many years and several investigations, is so unlikely and absurd as to be laughable.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The 'possibility' of a parent covering up an accident by trying to make it look like an abduction, and not getting caught after so many years and several investigations, is so unlikely and absurd as to be laughable.

There's been one investigation that was curtailed by political pressure before it's completion and at that stage had a clear suspect.....the McCann's involving an alleged accident. Financial records not supplied and Perlin DNA analysis request using more advanced techniques both ignored or refused. Had the DNA analysis of boot samples provided a 15 of 19 match that WASN'T also mixed then she would have been charged. No doubt. Hardly what I call absurd and laughable. Rather convincing and plausible are the terms that spring to mind for me.

The other was called Operation Grange . It wasn't an investigation whatsoever because it had a limited brief.....only to pursue unnamed potential abductors not having the name McCann. In that sense the whole $20m was spent chasing potential abductors who had no chance of ever being implicated. So if you want to give it a proper name call it a cover up. It was $20m spent to cover up McCann participation and the actions of the UK government too in arrogantly meddling in a foreign countries policing.

That is the objective truth of the last 15 years activities in the McCann case. Because it is and McCann has a probability before curtailment of the real investigation by Amaral of about 95% + then Brueckner necessarily can't have done it beyond say 5%. That's the way probability works it must add to 100%+. Don't hold your breath the evidence will bring a conviction for him.....highly unlikely.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

There appears to be a total misunderstanding of cadavar dog evidence. They are trained to only indicate for decomposing human flesh of blood, bones and tissue. Nothing else. Not human feces. No non human material of any description. Not general rubbish. Dead bodies and only dead bodies.

If a dog indicated it means there was a dead body where it indicated. There is therefore a 97% chance a dead body was in the boot of MCcanns hire car. A car that was hired with only 3000 klm on the clock when rented. ......maybe 3-4 previous rentals.

Anyone we know of renting that car with a possible link to a dead body??? I'll Hazzard an outlandish left field guess and say Mccann with Maddie.

So let me get this right, we think that prior burglaries of the Apartment is the best evidence and pointer we have to the possible abduction of the child but that the high probability 97% in fact that a dead body was in the boot of the car rented by McCann's (the parent s of the missing child) with only 2-3 renters previously can in no way be linked. Ok. Run with that if you like. I'll stay with my analysis

 

[faible]

There appears to be a total misunderstanding of cadavar dog evidence. They are trained to only indicate for decomposing human flesh of blood, bones and tissue. Nothing else. Not human feces. No non human material of any description. Not general rubbish. Dead bodies and only dead bodies.

If a dog indicated it means there was a dead body where it indicated. There is therefore a 97% chance a dead body was in the boot of MCcanns hire car. A car that was hired with only 3000 klm on the clock when rented. ......maybe 3-4 previous rentals.

Anyone we know of renting that car with a possible link to a dead body??? I'll Hazzard an outlandish left field guess and say Mccann with Maddie.

So let me get this right, we think that prior burglaries of the Apartment is the best evidence and pointer we have to the possible abduction of the child but that the high probability 97% in fact that a dead body was in the boot of the car rented by McCann's (the parent s of the missile child) with only 2-3 renters previously can in no way be linked. Ok. Run with that if you like. I'll stay with my analysis

You really think the most scrutinised parents on the planet snuck a dead body in to their rental car without anyone noticing?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again;

For someone claiming such lofty intelligence, you're bad at this.

 

[bomberclifford]

There is therefore a 97% chance a dead body was in the boot of MCcanns hire car.

Can you give a little bit more info on this 97% figure.

What is it based on and how is it derived?
If it is accurate, and is as emphatic as you claim it is, why is this not seen as admissible evidence?

What is missing here?

 

[Kurve]

There appears to be a total misunderstanding of cadavar dog evidence. They are trained to only indicate for decomposing human flesh of blood, bones and tissue. Nothing else. Not human feces. No non human material of any description. Not general rubbish. Dead bodies and only dead bodies.

Dirty nappies might contain traces of blood and some putrefaction.

It's so rare as to be almost unheard of, that parents would cover up any kind of an accident by vanishing the child completely and pushing an abduction. Even over on the William Tyrrell thread where the foster parents are facing charges of deception, assaults, intimidation and stalking and their remaining children have been removed as at risk, it's been difficult to accept they might actually have been involved.

There's nothing like that on the McCanns in fifteen years of investigations.

 

[ms finch]

Thanks for the insight into German system He is a German national but the crime is a Portugese crime if it is a crime. Not too sure of jurisdictional issues but I suspect him being named an Arguido means there is probably a necessity to extradite for charges there in Portugal. Could be wrong though and I have no idea if they follow the same system or not. Perhaps they do

As far as prosecuting McCann well I only want the people responsible to be held to account whoever they are Brueckner OR MCCann. At days end I thought that's what we all want. I happen to think that there was an accident with significant evidence pointing to that no matter what the hardcase McCann sympathisers think. As regards me thinking UK are complicit yes it is a truly horrible thought but it's not without foundation. We would have DNA done and financial records supplied and examined already if not for UK steadfastly refusing to do them. One of the investigators slanted to takeover Operation Grange refused to take the job because he was denied the right to freely investigate all leads including McCann. Says it all really and he's not an an internet diehard.

I don't buy into any of the emotive issues around the case. Only interested integrity of guilt verdicts. Brueckner is probably a horrible human being. Doesn't make him guilty here. McCann's probably are grief stricken pillars of the community. Doesn't make them innocent of hiding a deadly accident if they did.

Germany is the most advanced country when it comes to Universal Jurisdiction, which is the idea that some crimes should go beyond the jurisdiction in which they occurred. This is usually applied to particular international human rights abuses - war crimes, genocide and crimes against humanity. Germany has been the most active in utilising Universal Jurisdiction and they go further than the standard under their German Code of Crimes Against International Law. Applying it to the abduction and possible murder of an individual child may seem a further step than we have seen before, but I think it will be justified on the basis that there is an international child trafficking component to it, which fits squarely within the mandate set up with the aforementioned code. There is complete prosecutorial discretion on whether universal jurisdiction is applied, but I can see why with the international interest in this case and the opportunity to smash an international child trafficking ring they would exercise that discretion. It is incredibly fortunate for the McCann's that Brueckner ended up in Germany's hands. I believe they are the only country who would do this.

Here's a good article I hunted out to give more comprehensive details: https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...5372f4-7b78-11eb-8c5e-32e47b42b51b_story.html

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Can you give a little bit more info on this 97% figure.

What is it based on and how is it derived?
If it is accurate, and is as emphatic as you claim it is, why is this not seen as admissible evidence?

What is missing here?

You can get there very easily. I've seen it quoted at 95% 97% as much as 100% depending on dog and training. Grimes their handler gives a very good account. A dog can't be cross-examined. The best that can happen is they will indicate and you then use that indication to locate DNA evidence which occurred. If that DNA proves a (15 of 19 match )which in most jurisdictions is positive good. I repeat again the only reason it wasn't was because it was mixed DNA.

If you don't get a positive from the DNA sample then you can't rely on dog indications alone. They can't be cross examined and it's only the handler who has taught and understands their indications

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Dirty nappies might contain traces of blood and some putrefaction.

It's so rare as to be almost unheard of, that parents would cover up any kind of an accident by vanishing the child completely and pushing an abduction. Even over on the William Tyrrell thread where the foster parents are facing charges of deception, assaults, intimidation and stalking and their remaining children have been removed as at risk, it's been difficult to accept they might actually have been involved.

There's nothing like that on the McCanns in fifteen years of investigations.

Not too difficult to accept. The testimony creates severe doubt in my mind. It was stated that the child ran out of view and she heard him growling in a tiger game. Young children will play like that with siblings with playmates or parents but if left alone the play might instead involve a fight between toy dinosaurs as example. But when that happens it won't be a loud growl. She is wanting us to believe he would growl loudly at imaginary friends a plant maybe or a tree perhaps a passing bird. Utter BS. Context.....if the child was hurt and they wanted to drive a fake abduction BUT also not be seen to be neglectful the only way you can do that is if you couldn't see him but could still hear him. A growl out of sight then stopping would do that trick. Utter BS imo. Didn't happen

Assume for a second the utter BS isn't BS.....he was in the yard and would easily have yelled MUMMY if grabbed by anyone. So perhaps the pedaphile wandered randomly in backwater streets in a small town searching for unattended children also had chloroform. What utter BS.

 

[faible]

it won't be a loud growl

Yeah it is;

Utter BS

Imagine coming here and claiming you can authoritatively claim what level of volume all children will or will not make noises at.

The story might be BS, but your claim is utter BS.

You've been in this thread for 2 weeks and have posted over one hundred posts of utter nonsense trying to claim you have some form of knowledge no one else does, and that you're somehow intellectually superior, and that you're only interested in the truth and not some biased pre-determined crusade that everything must lead to Kate McCann being guilty.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Brueckner

Wolters has claimed to have solved the case. With the thread analysis so says media

Harris the detective says it's impossible he's guilty on the evidence he has gathered including 4 witnesses

UK are saying the witness statements check out

This is once again getting comical like the stuff at the time with McCann

Some of the things of interest

• he worked as a occasional handyman at the Ocean Club
• the McCanns sought help for blinds and refrigerator from Ocean club Handyman
• his phone pinged within 200 metres on the night. Harris the detective says there is some error in reading of data relating to that
• his GF phoned him at about 7.30 that night
• he told her he was going to use his Winnebago to go from Foral to Tomar app 5 hr trip
• a witness a girl 17 at the time said he spent the night having sex with her in canpervan at Foro (an hour and quarter away) and the next morning they travelled to airport were stopped at roadblock and photographed and she was then charged for carrying pepper spray through airport security
• he was responsible for multiple burglaries in the area.....a friend once saw between 60- 100 stolen passports
• his GF the one that rang him worked as an unqualified counsellor and half way house for runaway teens
• the possibility exists all three are connected that way that the 17 yo was a runaway who was helped and returned home , so all 3 associated for a time is possible
• the GF is alleged to have been an accomplice on his burglaries and there is strong evidence
• it's assumed that a thread has been found in campervan that matches the labels pyjamas

Still no body. No DNA. I assume no fingerprints. Questionable phone data. Rebuttal witness accounts. Thread match
to label manufacturer NOT Maddie

That's where we currently stand. I think the phone tower needs elaboration. I think more intensive detail including background of the 17 yo is needed.

 

[faible]

Brueckner

Wolters has claimed to have solved the case. With the thread analysis so says media

Harris the detective says it's impossible he's guilty on the evidence he has gathered including 4 witnesses

UK are saying the witness statements check out

This is once again getting comical like the stuff at the time with McCann

Some of the things of interest

• he worked as a occasional handyman at the Ocean Club
• the McCanns sought help for blinds and refrigerator from Ocean club Handyman
• his phone pinged within 200 metres on the night. Harris the detective says there is some error in reading of data relating to that
• his GF phoned him at about 7.30 that night
• he told her he was going to use his Winnebago to go from Foral to Tomar app 5 hr trip
• a witness a girl 17 at the time said he spent the night having sex with her in canpervan at Foro (an hour and quarter away) and the next morning they travelled to airport were stopped at roadblock and photographed and she was then charged for carrying pepper spray through airport security
• he was responsible for multiple burgaries in the area.....a friend once saw between 60- 100 stolen passports
• his GF the one that rang him worked as an unqualified counsellor and half way house for runaway teens
• the possibility exists all three are connected that way that the 17 yo was a runaway who was helped and returned home , so all 3 associated for a time is possible
• the GF is alleged to have been an accomplice on his burglaries and there is strong evidence
• it's assumed that a thread has been found in campervan that matches the labels pyjamas

Still no body. No DNA. I assume no fingerprints. Questionable phone data. Rebuttal witness accounts. Thread match
to label manufacturer NOT Maddie

That's where we currently stand. I think the phone tower needs elaboration. I think more intensive detail including background of the 17 yo is needed.

I wish you’d apply the same level of critical analysis to the ‘evidence’ against McCann.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Wolters has said in relation to the alibi "that it's not an alibi at all and that it rather goes in the other direction and is quite incriminating" What do I read into that? One interpretation is that they have tracked further phone pings and rather than going toward Foro they head in opposite direction before backtracking to then do roadblock and airport. Perhaps. Clearly he in unconvinced there is validity to alibi.

I assume from those comments he believes the young 17yo was also an accomplice.

 

[Kurve]

Wolters has said in relation to the alibi "that it's not an alibi at all and that it rather goes in the other direction and is quite incriminating" What do I read into that? One interpretation is that they have tracked further phone pings and rather than going toward Foro they head in opposite direction before backtracking to then do roadblock and airport. Perhaps. Clearly he in unconvinced there is validity to alibi.

I assume from those comments he believes the young 17yo was also an accomplice.

The unqualified counsellor in the halfway house for runaways is probably a front for a human/sex trafficking ring.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Finally found out why Mark Harris detective thinks that the phone tower evidence is wrong. He has sighted evidence (not explained) that shows that more than one person used the phone.

This doesn't sound right. NF rang him that night at 7.30 for 30 mins. And THAT phone pinged within 200 metres so how can it have been in someone elses possession. It can't. Mark Harris is being fed lies

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The unqualified counsellor in the halfway house for runaways is probably a front for a human/sex trafficking ring.

No don't think so K. What I read seems to indicate NF was genuine and had because of the hard life she'd lived tried to sort them out get them on their feet and back home. What I do think though was that NF helped them become Self sufficient and it may have entailed helping them in offending.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

One article in referring to the 17 yo witness says she was actually on holiday with her family. Really? So Mum and Dad are with her but they allow their 17 yo daughter to spend the night in a campervan with a 30 yo guy....probably on more than one night. Sorry I find that a bit hard to believe. I think the runaway scenario is way more credible...even seen to recall that one teen NF helped that actually got on a plane back home. It could be same person.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Working theory. NF and brueckner come across a 17 yo runaway and bring her into the house under NF 'counselling' for runaway teens give her food and a roof over head allow her to stay. In exchange she is co-opted into their burglary band. NF identifies properties and gives Brueckner tip offs . That seemed to be MO and evidence for it The 17 yo perhaps stands watch outside whilst Brueckner does the burglary. Brueckner enters to snatch and sell maddie. He had been to apartment before to do maintenance for McCann became infatuated with Maddie. NF says he was fixated with young female form. Her father talking to Brueckner at one point is told about his winnebago points out where marijuana and or a child may be stored in a storage area police never being the wiser. They take her to compound next to NF house 2 klm away a compound 5000 square metres next to that house surrounded by barb wire fence and guarded by 4 Turkish Kangal dogs. These dogs are the most fierce guard dogs in the world, stronger bite force than any dog in the world will even attack predatory animals like bears, wolves and tigers (I've seen footage.....damn). The compound is beyond a thick undergrowth that only NF and Brueckner know to navigate (as advised by NF dad) . Maddie perhaps taken there and drugged tied. Intention was to take her to Tomar being pedaphile slave trade hub for sale but when heat arise about Maddie the buyers backed out entirely. There is evidence to show both NF and Brueckner had spoken by phone to known pedaphile link earlier that day. NF mention of Tomar is interesting because it was a hub and because it disagree with 17yo alibi when it shouldn't. All 3 are now accomplices and left with a child and nowhere to take her. Brueckner keen to set up alibi for all devises saying that the agreed alibi of having sex in campervan then.through roadblock on to airport...drives to Foro and stays night with 17 yo. At least bw the two maybe not NF. They want to get the girl away. Too young and a weak link so told to go home. Maddie was now a danger to them so kill her and dispose of her body. I think she was alive until after Brueckner comes back from establishing alibi and being sure to be photographed at roadblock by police. The heat on search is very intense so whereabouts it wouldn't be a massive drive. Too risky otherwise. Profiling also suggests most dump sites are within 23klm of abduction. In this case because of extra heat probably less.


There will be a number of calls that are incriminating.

• airticket booking that morning not planned
• multiple calls to a pedaphile link
• multiple calls bw Brueckner and NF

I think he is smart enough not to have his phone with him when disposal occurs but will be far enough away not to implicate their location and not so far as to run risk on road


The phone evidence will therefore be critical. That is why I suggest Brueckner has told Harris that it was used by other people

 

[Angry Red Bull]

For those wanting to verify cadavar dog ability there is a great article titled

"Cadavar detection dogs: a review of their capabilites and the volatile organic compound profile of their associate training aides." A joint paper by Rushali Dargan And Shari Forbes. 8/12/2020

Accuracy of cadavar dogs put at 94%

I haven't read it from start to finish but it is a scientifically produced paper that is current knowledge of the area approached in scientific manner.

In terms of blood detection dogs they suggest that the detection accuracy is superior to all known chemical based testing approaches used in crime investigation

It is said that a cadavar dog can detect scent 15' under ground. All I can say it must be an absolute crap walk to go through a cemetery
......"oh crap oh hell... that stinks omg that's vile ...oh I'm going to be sick":....the WHOLE walk lol and they say a dog has an easy life

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I know several here just think I'm a McCann conspiracy theorist. But for me to get past the alleged guilt of McCann in guilty knowledge of a deadly accident I have to first accept that both cadavar dog and blood dog both were wrong when cadavar accuracy is 94% and blood dogs better....that the cadavar indicated on poo not purifying remains that the blood dog detected blood in poo that had fallen on boot carpet , that DNA showing 15/19 mixed match is wrong, that a witness statement expert is totally wrong in his assessment when he has stated that at times such experts can identify crime as to 100%(he didn't contemplate any scope for his error because he's done numerous interview analysis of McCann) and that Gerry accidentally forgot to add the word missing to a guilty statement of finding Maddie that night .....implication dead was a simple error than a Freudian slip of truth.

The chances of all those things aligning to escape the accident theory is next to zero...put a figure on it say 5% and if it is it then means Brueckners purported guilt is 5%.

 

[faible]

I know several here just think I'm a McCann conspiracy theorist. But for me to get past the alleged guilt of McCann in guilty knowledge of a deadly accident I have to first accept that both cadavar dog and blood dog both were wrong when cadavar accuracy is 94% and blood dogs better....that the cadavar indicated on poo not purifying remains that the blood dog detected blood in poo that had fallen on boot carpet , that DNA showing 15/19 mixed match is wrong, that a witness statement expert is totally wrong in his assessment when he has stated that at times such experts can identify crime as to 100%(he didn't contemplate any scope for his error because he's done numerous interview analysis of McCann) and that Gerry accidentally forgot to add the word missing to a guilty statement of finding Maddie that night .....implication dead was a simple error than a Freudian slip of truth.

The chances of all those things aligning to escape the accident theory is next to zero...put a figure on it say 5% and if it is it then means Brueckners purported guilt is 5%.

I’d simply accept you posting 5% as much as you have been.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Wolters confirms they have NO fibre evidence on Brueckner

 

[johnymac1]

Wolters confirms they have NO fibre evidence on Brueckner

one would think the German Prosecutor would run for a public office at some stage down the track. Chancellor?
he has been grandstanding for years and come up with nothing. not even got to trial.

Readers don't fall for the tabloid hype.

regarding the Germans suspect-
I challenge the police to: One, place him in the apartment 5A, ocean club. Two, prove he took maddie.
Three, he killed her!