Team Mgmt. Makeup of our team II - Strengths & deficiencies, player development

[Yoda_]

Biggest issue that people need to realise (imo) is that when you have such a horrific run at the top end of the draft, it hurts you badly for many years to come.

Yes you can pull a few wins in from later picks, trades etc, but all teams need that core of elite talent from the draft. The other methods are always more hit and miss.

Langford
Laverde
Parish
Francis
McGrath
Cox
Perkins
Reid
Hobbs
Tsatas

That there is our Top 20 picks in a decade of drafts.

It is horrific. Absolutely horrific.

Parish had one big year.

Langford has come on but it took the club literally 8 years to realise that is he a forward.

A couple of others have time, but have started terribly.

There’s no coming back from it. We have completely blown elite draft picks and elite talent development for a decade.

We have years at the bottom to come.

The thing many dont seem to acknowledge either is that all our "top end" draft picks haven't been top end. Apart from mr private school boy and back pocket specialist Andrew McGrath, we have never bothered to reach into the bottom reaches of the draft where the genuinely elite talent is.

We have done ourselves no favours but we have never bothered to fully bottom out.I would be letting Draper go for Free Agency compensation, even if it was Band 2 (mid first round) and we take 5 picks inside 30 this year.

 

[brutus76]

Tassie concessions get announced later this season

No to Harley Reid

Draft kids who can kick

Trade anyone not hanging around like McGrath, Parish, Redman for more picks

Let Draper go to the Crows

 

[ghostdog]

Biggest issue that people need to realise (imo) is that when you have such a horrific run at the top end of the draft, it hurts you badly for many years to come.

Yes you can pull a few wins in from later picks, trades etc, but all teams need that core of elite talent from the draft. The other methods are always more hit and miss.

Langford
Laverde
Parish
Francis
McGrath
Cox
Perkins
Reid
Hobbs
Tsatas

That there is our Top 20 picks in a decade of drafts.

It is horrific. Absolutely horrific.

Parish had one big year.

Langford has come on but it took the club literally 8 years to realise that is he a forward.

A couple of others have time, but have started terribly.

There’s no coming back from it. We have completely blown elite draft picks and elite talent development for a decade.

We have years at the bottom to come.

This post shows the crux of the on-field issue I reckon. We're going to feel the pain of the Dodoro legacy for a while yet.
Brad knows it. He's keen to go to the draft.

 

[ghostdog]

Nick Bryan and Sam Draper are a main reason I'll watch this season. Bryan's success or otherwise could well determine whether we're confident enough to let Draper go, and we need Draper to play his best season whether he's staying or going.

Three first round picks and two second rounders would be powerful, plus the capacity to reach for futures if necessary. The possibility of spending two firsts on Reid and still having two top ten picks is real.

 

[Mikevk123]

We need to cut our losses with the draft busts as soon as possible.

 

[eth-dog]

Tassie concessions get announced later this season

No to Harley Reid

Draft kids who are pure mids

Trade anyone not hanging around like McGrath, Parish, Redman for more picks

Let Draper go to the Crows

Nope. One of the biggest issues on our list is the fact that Parish, Tsatas, Hobbs, Shiel, Setterfield, Durham* and Duursma (wing) have all struggled to impact away from the midfield. The only midfielders who have shown they can are Caldwell, Merrett, Martin and Jones, and the latter two are wingers.

No more one dimensional midfielders who can't impact elsewhere.

*Durham can play multiple roles within the midfield but struggles outside of it

 

[FlyingV]

Biggest issue that people need to realise (imo) is that when you have such a horrific run at the top end of the draft, it hurts you badly for many years to come.

Yes you can pull a few wins in from later picks, trades etc, but all teams need that core of elite talent from the draft. The other methods are always more hit and miss.

Langford
Laverde
Parish
Francis
McGrath
Cox
Perkins
Reid
Hobbs
Tsatas

That there is our Top 20 picks in a decade of drafts.

It is horrific. Absolutely horrific.

Parish had one big year.

Langford has come on but it took the club literally 8 years to realise that is he a forward.

A couple of others have time, but have started terribly.

There’s no coming back from it. We have completely blown elite draft picks and elite talent development for a decade.

We have years at the bottom to come.

You’re right it’s looking pretty grim. There was a time when Lav and Langers looked good value, McGrath was pretty good, and at least 2 of Cox, Reid and Perk were going to kick on… but that’s all looking unlikely now.
I’ve got big concerns on Hobbs, he’s just not the modern day player. Tsatas I think will make it.

In that list we have completely ignored the trend of drafting hard running quick skillful players that lend themselves to fast transition style footy. Total miss from the recruitment team imo.

Honestly if we didn’t luck out and hit gold with Martin, Durham and (fml Dambrosio) this list would be appallingly bad.

 

[faible]

Biggest issue that people need to realise (imo) is that when you have such a horrific run at the top end of the draft, it hurts you badly for many years to come.

Yes you can pull a few wins in from later picks, trades etc, but all teams need that core of elite talent from the draft. The other methods are always more hit and miss.

Langford
Laverde
Parish
Francis
McGrath
Cox
Perkins
Reid
Hobbs
Tsatas

That there is our Top 20 picks in a decade of drafts.

It is horrific. Absolutely horrific.

Parish had one big year.

Langford has come on but it took the club literally 8 years to realise that is he a forward.

A couple of others have time, but have started terribly.

There’s no coming back from it. We have completely blown elite draft picks and elite talent development for a decade.

We have years at the bottom to come.

It can turn quickly if you hit on 2-3 good drafts in a ~ 5 year window. Which is where we've largely struggled, we might have one good draft but then not hit again for a couple of years.

2012: Daniher
2013: Merrett, Fantasia
2014: Langford, Laverde, McKenna
2015: Parish, Redman, McDonald-Tipungwuti
2016: McGrath, Ridley, Draper

That's 12 genuine best-22 level players, of which a number are AA's or AA Squad. Daniher, Fantasia, McKenna, and AMT were all lost in their primes for various reasons, and at their best were pretty damn good.

vs Brisbane (after the go-home 5 or whatever it was and they rebuilt)

2014: Andrews
2015: Hipwood
2016: McCluggage, Berry, McInerney
2017: Rayner, Bailey, Starcevich, Payne
2018: Answerth

10 best-22 players (Coleman was 2019)

If Rosa can pluck half a dozen good AFL players (and an elite one or two) over the next 3 drafts, it can turn fast. Merrett is more likely to be a past his prime veteran like a Crawford was at the Hawks, or Zorko at Brisbane, if he wins a Premiership IMO.

 

[Bombers36]

The positive with our list right now is we have 17 players that are out of contract this year so we will get some natural turnover as be able to shed some dead wood;-

At least 6 of these 8 with no contract for 2026 or beyond will be gone you'd think;-

Goldy
Setters
Davey
Menzie
Prior
Vigo
Shiel
Lav

Also out of contract another 9 players who have more upside/currency but we will likely lose a couple off this list also;-

SEH
Day-Wicks
Nguyen
Edwards
Jones
Hobbs
Reid
Bryan
Draper


So at a minimum 8 players on our current list will be gone - probably more...!! The point is we are POISED at the end of this year to do a big list cleanout, and we have draft capital + cash to support positive player acquisitions moving forward into 2026 which should significantly improve our list

 

[Lore]

This just popped up in my newsfeed;

The unwanted West Coast job that sent shivers down spines

Adam Simpson explained the rationale behind the unwanted task.

www.sen.com.au

Their “red wing” got me thinking about the “fat side role” that David Zaharakis was playing in his last couple of seasons, and then we put a bunch of kids through it after that, Perkins being the main one I can recall off hand. Probably something we inherited from West Coast via Worsfold I think.

Not sure if we still do it but now I’m gonna have to look for it again. The whipping boy job that no one is selfless enough to want unless they’re desperate to have a spot on game day regardless of what the role is.

 

[ant555]

It can turn quickly if you hit on 2-3 good drafts in a ~ 5 year window. Which is where we've largely struggled, we might have one good draft but then not hit again for a couple of years.

2012: Daniher
2013: Merrett, Fantasia
2014: Langford, Laverde, McKenna
2015: Parish, Redman, McDonald-Tipungwuti
2016: McGrath, Ridley, Draper

That's 12 genuine best-22 level players, of which a number are AA's or AA Squad. Daniher, Fantasia, McKenna, and AMT were all lost in their primes for various reasons, and at their best were pretty damn good.

vs Brisbane (after the go-home 5 or whatever it was and they rebuilt)

2014: Andrews
2015: Hipwood
2016: McCluggage, Berry, McInerney
2017: Rayner, Bailey, Starcevich, Payne
2018: Answerth

10 best-22 players (Coleman was 2019)

If Rosa can pluck half a dozen good AFL players (and an elite one or two) over the next 3 drafts, it can turn fast. Merrett is more likely to be a past his prime veteran like a Crawford was at the Hawks, or Zorko at Brisbane, if he wins a Premiership IMO.

Glad someone mentioned hitting a few drafts within a window. it is one thing I have previously mentioned in draft discussions. Nearly all the sides that have progressed to win premierships have had a sweet spot in their drafting where they have nailed 3 or 4 players in multiple drafts in a smallish window.

 

[Lore]

I know I bang on about this a lot, but I am very envious of how Ross Lyon has gone about his time at StKilda and building that list, specifically his prioritisation of running power:

Day 1, he says we are a team of runners.

Since then they have drafted: Wilson, Phillipou, Wang-Mil, Owens, Windhager, Travaglia, Hastie, Garcia and are right into Bergman.
All of them are tall athletic types who are either 6min 2krs or very athletic. They also added Collard and Henry for even more pace.

They are going to explode, and going after Bergman is right in their wheelhouse.

They are building a point of difference.

Cross-quoting from the Non-Essendon Thread coz it makes more sense here.

I was thinking about how some clubs have list strategies with a sort of specific focus over a period of a few years, and the other day I ended up going through all the old draft profiles for each player on our list to see if there was any rhyme or reason to it. Was hoping to post something more presentable out of it besides a big ass table, but I did throw the combined strengths and weaknesses of our players into a couple of word clouds.

It's notable that phrases like 'run and carry' are interpreted by the word cloud site I used as being three separate words. So like 'forward IQ', 'forward positioning' would count as forward x2, IQ x1, positioning x1.

Anyone want to guess which word cloud is strengths and which one is weaknesses?

 

[Old Campaigner]

Unless dododo wrote the draft profiles I’m gonna guess the one with kicking and defense is the weaknesses

 

[Old Campaigner]

Noting based on that word cloud our draftees appear to be lacking in the upper balls department too

 

[Lore]

Unless dododo wrote the draft profiles I’m gonna guess the one with kicking and defense is the weaknesses

Vast majority are from draft central/RMC, a couple of the rookies/late picks are from scouting notes rather than summary profiles. The oldest players on the list pre-date draft central, and Shiel Wass drafted at 17 so there isn’t any profiles about him, his was a combination of Emma Quayle for the age and the gws website (which doesn’t comment on weaknesses). Goldstein I had to get from a quote from the herald sun Basically best available information with a preference for independent third parties. I have the urls saved in the table the players we didn’t actually draft first up may have developed somewhat by the time we did get them, but probably not much.

 

[Old Campaigner]

You should do a comparison between us and the draftees of a couple of successful clubs and see if there’s a pattern

 

[FlyingV]

Cross-quoting from the Non-Essendon Thread coz it makes more sense here.

I was thinking about how some clubs have list strategies with a sort of specific focus over a period of a few years, and the other day I ended up going through all the old draft profiles for each player on our list to see if there was any rhyme or reason to it. Was hoping to post something more presentable out of it besides a big ass table, but I did throw the combined strengths and weaknesses of our players into a couple of word clouds.

It's notable that phrases like 'run and carry' are interpreted by the word cloud site I used as being three separate words. So like 'forward IQ', 'forward positioning' would count as forward x2, IQ x1, positioning x1.

Anyone want to guess which word cloud is strengths and which one is weaknesses?

View attachment 2267692View attachment 2267693

Jeez it’s hard to say but I’d probably guess the bottom one with marking is the strength and kicking and consistency the weakness.

 

[Lore]

Yep. Various aspects of kicking (efficiency, on the run, field), strength/body development and composure are the areas for improvement for a lot of them, along with tackling, accountability, defensive efforts and two-way running, which are a bunch of different ways to say more or less the same thing.

The thing is, if composure is an issue in U18s, why would you be any less of a headless chook in a professional context against grown adults? I get someone being composed at U18s and being a bit off-balance until they get used to the level, but if they never had composure in the first place?

Gotta remember there's some survivorship bias here. There's plenty of other blokes we drafted that had other traits and didn't stay on the list for whatever reason. So using it to judge our previous drafting is a messy business, but it does show where the gaps are.

No.	Player	Draft Eligible	Age @ 1/1/25	Position (Draft)	Strengths (Draft)	Improvements (Draft)	URL
17	Todd Goldstein	2006	36.5	Ruck	Ruckwork, skills, scoreboard impact
9	Dylan Shiel	2011	31.8	Midfielder	Explosive speed, Linebreaking, Run and carry, Professionalism		https://www.gwsgiants.com.au/players/297/Dylan-Shiel#playerbio
7	Zach Merrett	2013	29.2	Outside Midfielder/Small Forward	Classy ball user, Intelligent playmaker, Penetrating short kick, Ballwinning, Pressure, Tackling, Excellent vision, Quick, Strong core	Kicking efficiency, Accountability, Endurance, Inside game	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/2013/08/25/2013-draft-profile-zachary-merrett/
20	Peter Wright	2014	28.3	Key forward/Ruck	Goal kicking, Marking, Movement	Tackling, Field kicking, Consistency	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/2014/08/03/2014-draft-profile-peter-wright/
4	Kyle Langford	2014	28.1	Utility	Creative, Speed, Acceleration, Vertical leap, Intercept marking, Attack on the ball, Tackling	Impact, Kicking efficiency, Skinny, Long neck	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/2014/10/07/luke-mcalisters-phantom-draft/
15	Jayden Laverde	2014	28.7	Utility	Athleticism, Versatility, Forward IQ, Strength, Kicking, Composed in traffic	Accumulation, Inside game, Decisions under pressure	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/2014/10/07/luke-mcalisters-phantom-draft/
3	Darcy Parish	2015	27.4	Balanced Midfielder	Classy, Disposal, Kicking, Workrate, Decision making, Impact, Skills, Composure, Quick	Size, defensive efforts, Scoreboard impact	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/2015/10/06/2015-draft-profile-darcy-parish/
11	Jade Gresham	2015	27.4	Balanced Midfielder	Intelligence, Leadership, Accumulator, Endurance, Attack on the ball	Speed, Impact, Conservative kicking	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/2015/06/29/2015-draft-profile-jade-gresham/
32	Ben McKay	2015	27.0	Key defender/forward	Contested marking, Strength, Agility, Versatility	Offensive game, Kicking, Positioning, Disposal efficiency	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/2015/10/10/2015-draft-profile-ben-mckay/
27	Mason Redman	2015	27.3	Medium forward/Inside midfielder	Footy IQ, Composure, Positioning, Poise, Running patterns, Overhead marking	Height (fifth forward @ 186cm)	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/2015/11/24/luke-mcalisters-phantom-draft-2/
35	Matt Guelfi	2015	27.4	Utility	High pressure
12	Will Setterfield	2016	26.9	Inside Midfielder	Contested work, Hands in close, Attack on the ball, Tackling, Versatility	Consistency, Durability	Scouting notes + https://central.rookieme.com/afl/2016/11/14/matt-balmers-2016-final-afl-draft-power-rankings-part-2/
14	Jordan Ridley	2016	26.2	Rebound Def	Composure, Marking, Rebounding, Good decisions, Versatility	Upper body development (strong lower body)	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/2016/11/14/matt-balmers-2016-final-afl-draft-power-rankings-part-2/
2	Sam Draper	2016	26.3	Ruck/Tall Forward	Mobility		https://central.rookieme.com/afl/2016/11/20/afl-national-rookie-drafts-review/
1	Andrew McGrath	2016	26.5	Small Defender/Inside Midfielder	Athleticism, Agility, Speed, Ball-winning, Leadership, Shutdown defence	Kicking	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/2016/10/03/matt-balmers-october-power-rankings/
45	Thomas Edwards	2018	24.6	Forward	Leading patterns, Overhead marking, Skills, Decision-making		https://central.rookieme.com/afl/20...wafl-colts-south-fremantle-vs-swan-districts/
6	Jye Caldwell	2018	24.3	Midfielder	Acceleration, Agility, Goal sense, Game smarts, Tackling, Leadership	Durability, Kicking consistency	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/jye-caldwell/
28	Xavier Duursma	2018	24.5	Midfielder	Flexibility, All round athleticism, Inside/outside ability, Marking relevance for size, Courage, Leadership, Desperate defensively, Minimal flaws	Kicking consistency, Body development	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/xavier-duursma/
22	Sam Durham	2019	23.5	Balanced Midfielder	Kicking, Vertical leap, Athleticism, Spoiling, Upside	Strength, Accumulation, Scoreboard Impact	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/samuel-durham/
41	Saad El-Hawli	2019	23.6	Defender	Speed, X-Factor, Versatility, Accumulation, Scoreboard Impact		https://central.rookieme.com/afl/2024/05/29/profiled-2024-afl-mid-season-draftees/
25	Jaxon Prior	2019	23.6	Half-Back	Athleticism, Rebounding, Reading the play, Foot skills, Vertical leap	Physicality, Contested work, Defensive pressure	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/jaxon-prior/
23	Harrison Jones	2019	23.9	Key Forward	Marking, Leap, Versatility, Defensive Ability, Endurance, Speed	Consistency, Strength	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/harrison-jones/
24	Nick Bryan	2019	23.2	Ruck	Ruck work, Vertical leap, Speed, Upside, Skill	Consistency, Scoreboard impact, Contested marking	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/nick-bryan/
37	Nic Martin	2019	23.7	Tall Utility	Balanced, Scoreboard impact, Agility, Size	Defensive pressure, Accumulation	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/nicholas-martin/
16	Archie Perkins	2020	22.8	Inside Midfielder/Forward	Athleticism, Explosiveness/power, Overhead marking, Scoreboard impact, Attacking instinct, Upside	Finishing consistency, Midfield accumulation	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/archie-perkins/
31	Zach Reid	2020	22.8	Key Position Defender / Utility	Vertical leap, Skills, Intercept marking, Upside, Aerial ability, Reading of the play	Strength, Raw versatility	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/zach-reid/
29	Jye Menzie	2020	22.2	Small Forward	Goal sense, X-factor, Footy IQ, Forward craft, Upside, Scoreboard impact	Consistency, Versatility, Off-ball impact	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/jye-menzie/
13	Nik Cox	2020	23.0	Tall Utility	Overhead marking, Dual-sidedness, Kick efficiency, Clean hands, Endurance, Versatility	Raw, Strength/bodywork	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/nikolas-cox/
8	Ben Hobbs	2021	21.3	Inside Midfielder	Contested work, Clean hands, Accumulation, Consistency, Tackling, Clearances	Outside game, Kicking	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/ben-hobbs/
18	Lewis Hayes	2022	20.0	Key Defender	Aerial ability, Decision making, Defensive versatility, Intercept marking, Kick efficiency, Mobility	Contested work, Strength	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/lewis-hayes/
5	Elijah Tsatas	2022	20.2	Midfielder	Speed, Agility, Vision, Clean Hands, Consistency, Production	Strength, Defensive pressure	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/elijah-tsatas/
33	Alwyn Davey Jnr	2022	20.8	Small Forward	Speed, Agility, Vision, Balance, Tackling, Clean Hands	Endurance, Production	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/alwyn-davey/
21	Archie Roberts	2023	19.1	Defender	Intercept game, Kicking, Reading the play, Rebounding, Run-and-carry, Speed-endurance mix	Defensive craft, Strength	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/archie-roberts/
34	Luamon Lual	2023	19.8	Defender	Athleticism, Competitiveness, Reading the play, Rebounding, Run-and-carry	Disposal consistency, Strength	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/luamon-lual/
39	Vigo Visentini	2023	19.3	Ruck	Competitiveness, Physicality, Rate of development, Ruck craft, Work rate	Composure, Versatility	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/vigo-visentini/
30	Nate Caddy	2023	19.5	Tall Forward	Aerial ability, Overhead marking, Reach, Speed, Scoreboard impact, Upside	Ground balls, In-between size	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/nate-caddy/
36	Angus Clarke	2024	18.2	Defender-Forward	Kicking, Marking, Rate of improvement, Rebounding, Versatility	Exposure, Rawness	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/angus-clarke/
38	Rhys Unwin	2024	18.2	Forward-Midfielder	Agility, Defensive pressure, Evasiveness, Goal sense, Smarts, Speed	Finishing, Kicking	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/rhys-unwin/
44	Archer Day-Wicks	2024	18.6	Forward-Midfielder	Aerial ability, Competitiveness, Kicking, Overhead marking, Scoreboard impact, Versatility	Composure, consistency	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/archer-day-wicks/
40	Zak Johnson	2024	18.0	Midfielder	Footy IQ, Kicking, Speed, Versatility	Contested game, Defensive Acts	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/zak-johnson/
19	Kayle Gerreyn	2024	18.6	Ruck Forward	Agility, Contested marking, Kick penetration, Physicality, Production, Ruck craft	Decision making, Endurance	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/kayle-gerreyn/
42	Jayden Nguyen	2024	18.4	Small Defender	Competitiveness, Dare, Versatility, Speed	Composure, Kicking on the run	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/jayden-nguyen/
10	Isaac Kako	2024	18.8	Small Forward	Agility, Creativity, Ground balls, Speed, Vision, X-Factor	Composure, Defensive output	https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/isaac-kako/