makybe diva

[markstaners]

Noted by whom? For every person you can find that has "noted" he wasn't that impressive, I'll find you 1,000 that have "noted" he was a complete and utter freak of a racehorse.

Factually ill? You haven't supplied a single fact - just an opinion that he didn't beat that much.

Never said he wasn't impressive you idiot, just said that there was a good myth behind him which helped catapult him to a higher pedastool than any other horse. He would have been very impressive lugging a heap of weight each week but a lot of those races were mickey mouse races and he could have carried an elephant an coasted.

Phar Lap never raced the worlds best horses, that is a fact! No denying his a great horse but in all seriousness other horses, would be considered on par with him if it wasn't for his death and the myths that spawned from that great horse. You are a raving lunatic if you think otherwise, exact same thing happened with Man utd, Ayrton Senna etc etc death sometimes can do a lot more for the image.

 

[markstaners]

This is an unbelievably moronic post, sorry. Not worthy of response.

"To the fool, he who speaks wisdom will sound foolish"

 

[skipper kelly]

All the old timers say Tulloch. I will stick with them.

 

[Deej]

add Northerly to that list.

In my opinion, the best four gallopers i've seen race in australia are:
Northerly, Rubiton, Better Loosen Up and Might&Power.

Others like Vo Rogue, Saintly, Super Impose, Sunline, Bonecrusher, Red Anchor, Elvstroem, Makybe Diva, Naturalism, Lets Elope and Lonhro are 'up there', but a rung or two below.

Note, I rate middle distance (2000m-2400m) wfa racing as the pinnacle of the sport, and i started following the game in the early 80's (just after KT).

 

[skipper kelly]

In my opinion, the best four gallopers i've seen race in australia are:
Northerly, Rubiton, Better Loosen Up and Might&Power.

Others like Vo Rogue, Saintly, Super Impose, Sunline, Bonecrusher, Red Anchor, Elvstroem, Makybe Diva, Naturalism, Lets Elope and Lonhro are 'up there', but a rung or two below.

Note, I rate middle distance (2000m-2400m) wfa racing as the pinnacle of the sport, and i started following the game in the early 80's (just after KT).

Fair enough. Dulcify and Kingston were both freaks.

 

[Rough_Edges]

In my opinion, the best four gallopers i've seen race in australia are:
Northerly, Rubiton, Better Loosen Up and Might&Power.

Others like Vo Rogue, Saintly, Super Impose, Sunline, Bonecrusher, Red Anchor, Elvstroem, Makybe Diva, Naturalism, Lets Elope and Lonhro are 'up there', but a rung or two below.

Note, I rate middle distance (2000m-2400m) wfa racing as the pinnacle of the sport, and i started following the game in the early 80's (just after KT).

Totaly agree with ya on that one.

 

[Dr Nick043]

Why is it than in mostly everyone's top 10 horses ever that 9 out of 10 are stayers?. Dunno about the greatest ever but Manikato was my favourite

 

[Deej]

"To the fool, he who speaks wisdom will sound foolish"

Wisdom? Ha, yeah no worries yoda.

"Not better than phar Lap, ohh Please Phar lap ran a lot of races carrying a lot of weight which at that time was very common. Plus he could carry extra weight, he was a massive horse. When you look at history proper and dont get clouded by the Phar Lap myth you will realise perhaps he wasn't as good as the myth suggests."

This is supposed to be wisdom is it? List the races he carried the weight in. List his wins that we should discard due to them being boat races handed to him on a plate. List all the donkeys he beat, that weren't world class.

Surely these pearls of wisdom have some solid foundations that they are based upon - aka facts?

"Rising fast, so he had 1 good year so f ing what."

More wisdom?

"With all due respect nobody in the Makybe diva camp, bar the owner wanted to go to Japan."

How do you know this? Link the proof please, a quote or news article will suffice.

 

[demon21]

Orginally posted by Markstaners
No, but people go along with the Phar lap parade and yet they never saw him race, how can they judge him? It's been noted that he never ran against anything that great, so why do you have a go when i speak factually ill of him. The greatest thing to happen to Phar Lap, was his death and your living in denial if you dare question that for a second.

Well of course we go on a about Phar Lap parade just cause we didnt see it race dosent mean we cant say how good he must have been. Soon there will be no one around who saw Bradman play cricket does that mean people shouldnt say he wasnt that good. Years down the track no one will be around when Maybe Diva raced but im sure people will still say what a champion it must had been. What ive read and heard Phar was a champion u dont win 3 or 4 races in a 8 days or so without being great.

 

[CoggaRules]

Yep i will certainly agree with that.

no f...ing way, how can you come to that conclusion without taking into account Harryalards Lane?

 

[Rumbo]

Fair enough. Dulcify and Kingston were both freaks.

Add Tulloch & Bernborough.
If you think about it , we can go through & start on the sprinters.Luskin Star & co.Memories are fantastic aren't they , I was lucky as I've seen Dulcify & Kingston Town race. Can't understand why anyone would say silly comments about Phar Lap. I'm guess I'm getting old.

 

[skipper kelly]

Add Tulloch & Bernborough.
If you think about it , we can go through & start on the sprinters.Luskin Star & co.Memories are fantastic aren't they , I was lucky as I've seen Dulcify & Kingston Town race. Can't understand why anyone would say silly comments about Phar Lap. I'm guess I'm getting old.

Yes you are getting old.

The best horses stand the test of time. On old footage, hearsay and what Ive seen Tulloch is most likely the greatest. Kingstown Town was a freak. 3 cox plates in a row and murdered in the Melb Cup. All this going the wrong way for him.

Luskin Star had the best turn of foot of any 2yo I have seen. Bar none.
Manikatos record speaks for itself.
I was there when Dulcify broke down. Very sad. We dont know how good he could have been. We did see how good he was though.

Its impossible for me to place all the horses in any particular order. If forced to do it though, Makybe Diva would probably be top 10 australian.

Its also about when and where born and what you have seen and how you saw it. When I 1st started going to the races everyone loved Gunsynd. He had TJ talking him up from all corners and he used to prance onto the race track like he owned it. A good horse yes. A great horse probably. A champion, well that depends where you draw the line.

Anyone who was at Moonee Valley on Saturday, and got caught up in the Makybe Diva hype, will no doubt remember it forever. She is a superstar to them and thats all that really matters.

 

[Rumbo]

Yes you are getting old.


Luskin Star had the best turn of foot of any 2yo I have seen. Bar none.
Manikatos record speaks for itself.
I was there when Dulcify broke down. Very sad. We dont know how good he could have been. We did see how good he was though.


Its also about when and where born and what you have seen and how you saw it. When I 1st started going to the races everyone loved Gunsynd. He had TJ talking him up from all corners and he used to prance onto the race track like he owned it. A good horse yes. A great horse probably. A champion, well that depends where you draw the line.

Thanks for confirming I'm old.
I think we all get caught up in hype.Spot on with Gunsynd,I even have the record they made,& when I find the needle for the gramma funkin I'll play it.Its good for racing that we have favourites/champions, the more you win on them the better the horse was. It would have been a pretty boring last few weeks if Md wasn't there to add some glamour to the events. Now hopefully we will find another horse to get excited about & debate.
Cheers

 

[Deej]

Kingstown Town was a freak. 3 cox plates in a row

I happen to think that had Northerly not done a tendon, he'd probably have 4 cox plates in the cupboard and 16 mill prizemoney. Fields of Omagh and Savabeel wouldn't have been able to hold him out in my opinion, thus my reasoning. So 2 q's, 1) do you think that's an absurd opinion to have?, and 2) if he had all that, how do you think he'd be rated in the bigger scheme of things?

I remember after his 2nd cox there was debate about KT vs him, and N having the ability to take the kick out of any horse by making these long gutbusting 800-1000m sprints. Suddenly he's gone, lonhro is crowned best since KT, and it's just about forgotten how good he was at dominating other great horses like him and sunline. Now lonhro is gone, grandarmee elvstroem and starcraft too, and makybe diva suddenly takes the next step to wfa champ and everyone forgets them and it's MD best since pharlap!

I don't know about you but to me, it makes my mind boggle a bit that people can forget even recent great horses so quickly. Is it just the sign of the times, of greater society, the americanised life where marketing dominates public perception and thought, and icons are turned over as quick as possible to avoid the sales lag thing?

 

[skipper kelly]

I happen to think that had Northerly not done a tendon, he'd probably have 4 cox plates in the cupboard and 16 mill prizemoney. Fields of Omagh and Savabeel wouldn't have been able to hold him out in my opinion, thus my reasoning. So 2 q's, 1) do you think that's an absurd opinion to have?, and

Not an absurb opinion

2.if he had all that, how do you think he'd be rated in the bigger scheme of things?

If he won 4 Cox Plates he would be recognised as such.

As is, he is rated right up there. Throughout Australian racing history it is generally accepted that 3 horses are in the 1st tier. Phar Lap, Tulloch, Kingston Town.

No doubts in my mind Northerly is in the next bracket behind them. This bracket would probably have about 8-10 horses.

I remember after his 2nd cox there was debate about KT vs him, and N having the ability to take the kick out of any horse by making these long gutbusting 800-1000m sprints. Suddenly he's gone, lonhro is crowned best since KT, and it's just about forgotten how good he was at dominating other great horses like him and sunline. Now lonhro is gone, grandarmee elvstroem and starcraft too, and makybe diva suddenly takes the next step to wfa champ and everyone forgets them and it's MD best since pharlap!

Thats racing Deej. As I said in a previous post. Its about when and where you were born and what involvement you had in seeing these horses. Also as Rumbo said, its whether or not you have backed them. Its all about perception. As you know with Northerly. You see things that others might not see. Same with me and Sunline. I loved the horse. Not that I really ever had much on her because quite frankly I like to watch the best races without any bias, and we know that money creates bias.

Sunline, Northerly, Lohnro, Octaganol, Saintly etc etc. All super horses. Unfortunately we dont get to see them race each other at their peak. I dont know about you but one of my favourite all time horses is Super Impose. Has there been a better miler? Manikato had the same attributes as Northerly showed. Guts, determination and near on impossible to pass. How do you compare a sprinter to a md/stayer?

Hype is what todays racing is all about. Hype creates money. Hype sells papers, gets people through the gate etc etc. So its not that racing people forget the Champions, its that the media tries to make us forget and then push the new champion on us.

But you know who the master of hype was. TJ Smith himself. Funnily enough he trained Tulloch and Kingston Town.

I don't know about you but to me, it makes my mind boggle a bit that people can forget even recent great horses so quickly. Is it just the sign of the times, of greater society, the americanised life where marketing dominates public perception and thought, and icons are turned over as quick as possible to avoid the sales lag thing?

exactly.

So you understand what its all about, so as long as you dont forget, nothing else really matters.

PS. I will throw in 4 of my all time favs. Gleaming Waters, Admiral Lincoln, Bold Jet and Red Anchor. One was a very very good horse. The others were city class that won a few good races. They are all champs to me.

 

[Deej]

Yeah skipper that all makes sense to me, i guess it's just frustrating to hear such manipulations manifested by people (who i won't insult by calling lemmings - oops) in such a confident almost assumptive way, as if it's gospel truth, like how dare anyone question her greatness, and to do so is to 'bring her down'.

I had a few other favs, Quick Flick (always gave a great sight for your money), Billy Asset (fell in a villiers going half pace about to pounce, came back was never the same), had a liking for General Nediym and Testa Rossa for a while too, also got a bit carried away with a 2yo who only ever had 3 starts, called New Logic, SA horse that did a tendon in it's lead up to the slipper. Another old fav in QLD was Cav Lon, man did that horse win me some money.

 

[skipper kelly]

Theyre the best ones arent they. The ones that fill your pockets.

The day Admiral Lincoln won the Australian Cup. Im sure it was a hcap then, anyway, was pre post fav for like 4 weeks. Kept winning lead up races. I said to the old man on the way to Canterbury, this will win again today. Had a tip for something in the 1st. Got the money at 11/4. Bold Jet then won in Melb. 9/2 or 11/2 not quite sure. Anyway off to a flyer. Next bet was a horse called Run Ashore. Got on at 6/4 which I thought was good odds. Anyway near the end of betting it got out to 5/2. So I thought well this aint winning. Being young and stupid I said stuff it and jumped on again. Got the money. Well pockets bulging. What do I do? I actually did the smart thing and waited for Admiral Lincoln. I thought it would be about 4/1. Opened 8/1 got out to 10/1 and they bet 11/1. Not sure what it started. Won by a nose. Developed print and all. I wont say what I won, but you know the moral of the story. Hip pockets speaks a language of its own.

 

[Deej]

Yeah that's why i loved old cav lon, one day late 80's up at caloundra i was working on a shopping center installation, it was a week long job so we were all staying in a hotel for 8-9 days from memory, everything paid for. Unreal. Saturday races were on at corbould park i think it's called (now called sunshine coast) so we went and got on the turps, me and the lads 4 in all. well i was doing my balls and had $48 left in my pocket and we were coming to the last races, i spotted a horse first up in brisbane called dark charmer it was paying $41 the win so i went and had $8 win, it led and kicked on the turn and never looked like getting beat. Won by 7 pulling up. 10mins till last at locals jump and there's an odds-on fav, but i didn't like it i liked cav lon at the time he was 3yo, set at 4's on the books and i told all the lads he was the one. I'd just won a stack so they all thought yeah lets stick with deej. But i'm waiting for the dark charmer collect to come through, waiting waiting waiting, 3mins, 2mins, 1min till locals jump and still not through, sh#t i only had $40 left in the kick, stuff it i ran over and had the lot on old Cav and ran down to see them jump (i was going to have a lot more had i been able to collect). The odds on fav leads, Cav stalks, nothing else close, in the straight me and the boys on the grass start roaring like lads do GO CAV it kept coming and coming and nailed the hotpot on the line, man we went bananas. I'd tipped everyone the winner and was the hero of the day, went and collected both bets and we went out and got drunk as skunks and sweated like mules the next day working it all off. Great memory that.

 

[skipper kelly]

Great story Deej. I love racing stories. Its such a great feeling walking out of the meeting with your pockets full. Its not really about the money, its about how you did it.

 

[Deej]

Its not really about the money, its about how you did it.

And never a truer word spoken.

It's like that for a lot of things in life i reckon, I blew probably six figures over 4 years on travelling in the 90's, my career obviously stalled whilst a lot of my mates didn't travel and they worked hard and got themselves set up in good jobs. But i never worried about it, i always thought my time will come, i just want to enjoy life and do it like tomorrow didn't exist. When i came home a friend's mum used to ask, so deej are you gonna settle down now? stop blowing all that money and make something of yourself? I used to reply, i'm not wasting money I'm investing it in the stories i'm gonna tell my grandchildren one day.

 

[skipper kelly]

And never a truer word spoken.

It's like that for a lot of things in life i reckon, I blew probably six figures over 4 years on travelling in the 90's, my career obviously stalled whilst a lot of my mates didn't travel and they worked hard and got themselves set up in good jobs. But i never worried about it, i always thought my time will come, i just want to enjoy life and do it like tomorrow didn't exist. When i came home a friend's mum used to ask, so deej are you gonna settle down now? stop blowing all that money and make something of yourself? I used to reply, i'm not wasting money I'm investing it in the stories i'm gonna tell my grandchildren one day.

Im a true believer in living for the day and tomorrow will work itself out. And as for yesterday, well its gone. Maybe thats the punting instinct in us or maybe its what makes us punters.

And it is great telling the kids all the war stories. (not grandkids yet)

 

[nut]

Bump.


Funny read.
He who thinks she is not the Greatest to run In Australia is a fool. WFA, Cups she has done it all.

 

[whythelongface]

The greatest horse of all time on Australian turf.

 

[markstaners]

Told ya's so, called her the greatest first and was right.

HA HA

 

[Catman]

She's the greatest of modern times, that you cannot dispute.

It's all hypothetical as to who the best is of all time though.