News Malthouse Vs McGuire

[the distributer]

When the deal was done the whole football world asked the same question.... "What if Mick has won or is in the process of winning a premiership?" At the time - I don't think anyone would have seen it. But what came to be was a very formidable Collingwood Unit! I remember thinking that Ed's love affair with Bucks was laughable - Still is! But as an onlooker you can't help but side with Mick.... You create a premiership winning formula and for the privilege you're shown the door. People will argue that contracts were in place and all sorts of things! Truth of the matter is.... If Eddie wanted Mick to stay then he would have. Today Barrett writes an article and the whole Collingwood Faithful are up in arms! I personally suggested when the deal was done that this could see the demise of Eddie as President. Think about it from the perspective of someone in the outer.... If the club is seen to go backwards now (within reason) then surely Eddie should / would be held accountable! As a Carlton Supporter.... When you guys won the 2010 Cup and I read the you were the second younger team in the history of the game to do so.... I thought that a new dynasty was forming (Massive Nightmare!). As it looks at the moment - That may not be happening anymore and if that were the case then someone needs to be held responsible....

If we fail to recapture our 2010/2011 form Edd will pay the price, that much is obvious, we've lost 2 games and look at the uproar lol, this is Edds baby.

 

[rose jam]

I'd like to hear MM criticise Judd for being responsible for Carlton's last 3 finals losses, 2 of them by shanking easy kicks at easy, and the last by getting toweled up by Scott Selwood

 

[rose jam]

Did anyone see in the hsun today that this year we are still the no. 1 team for using the boundary?

I can see that with my own eyes, I simply don't get where people are saying this corridor v boundary thing, it simply isn't happening. I don't think people that get paid to watch the game actually watch it.

 

[magpielicious]

Sorry, but MM has lost all credibility in my eyes.
He should get together with Aker and they can both sulk like babies.

Nathan Buckley has shown more balls in these last few days than MM ever could.
Ego is a dirty word and MM is the king of Ego's.

Just crawl away into your hole.

I follow COLLINGWOOD for LIFE and I will stick "side by side" with those at the club (at any given time). Once you leave you are no longer apart of my club !!

 

[MarkT2]

I remember Eddie suggesting the the move was visionary and revolutionary. However I remember the wider football community thinking otherwise,

Clearly Eddie was right and the wider football community were horribly wrong. The arrangement has already been astoundingly successful.

In more than 50 years since 1958 Collingwood had won only 1 flag. In 20 years since 1990 Collingwood had won no flags. In 10 years under Malthouse Collingwood had won no flags and lost 2 grand finals - 1 of which they started a clear favourite in.

In the year following the visionary and revolutionary deal Collingwood won the flag. With a sunset finally on the horizon, Malthouse recruited the players needed to win flag - after failing to do so for a decade. After a decade of insipid rucking Malthouse relented and got a strong, quality ruckman. Finally Malthouse, with the sunset in sight, dispensed with some his favourite players who had neither the pace, power or skill to win a premiership.

This visionary and revolutionary deal is one of the two most visionary and revolutionary deals seen at Collingwood in half a century. You can decide for yourself were it ranks alongside the Mathews/Rose deal. Given the post 1990 fall away of Collingwood, my tip is this later deal will be seen as number 1.

Since 2010 5 200 game players have retired and 1 has been moved on. That creats a depth deficiancy which is currently hurting Collingwood. Still, the season is far from over and having had 2 tough games in the first 3 there are a few easier games coming up. 2012 is far from over.

 

[doppleganger]

Malthouse has been a disappointment in the last year. I add the instance of Malthouse resigning from the club in the post-grand final meeting with the players. The players were already emotional but Mick had to make the moment about himself. What about the Collingwood VFL players? Couldnt Mick have gathered everyone at the club the next day and told them?

Agree...the entire second half of 2011 was more about MM than it was Collingwood. Very poor timing from MM to inform players/staff etc that he would be leaving the moment after they lose a GF.

As Eddie has said, Malthouse had his legacy in place. In time, I will praise him again but not this self-centred version of Malthouse.

There are different ways to handle yourself.

T.Shaw put Collingwood before himself when he was pushed out of the coaching position, MM has done the opposite.

Eddie bleeds Collingwood and when he senses that somebody is not in his corner he tries to put them in their place.

Buckley aint put a foot wrong....one bad quarter against the new premiership fav and people act as if the sky is falling. Even with our injuries we may go 4-0 in the next month, and then go into a clash with the Cats potentially at 5-2....hardly panic stations.

 

[DrEvil]

What most people overlook in this affair is Eddie's lack of professionalism and his clear conflict of interest. If you want to have a go at MM as the president of Collingwood football club, then fine, have a press conference. Don't do it on your own radio show.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

What most people overlook in this affair is Eddie's lack of professionalism and his clear conflict of interest. If you want to have a go at MM as the president of Collingwood football club, then fine, have a press conference. Don't do it on your own radio show.

Makes preparing a radio show easy when you can just insert a slab of your daily life. Wish I had a job where I got paid for slagging off people who upset or angered me.

 

[Stifler's mom]

Agree...the entire second half of 2011 was more about MM than it was Collingwood. Very poor timing from MM to inform players/staff etc that he would be leaving the moment after they lose a GF.


There are different ways to handle yourself.

T.Shaw put Collingwood before himself when he was pushed out of the coaching position, MM has done the opposite.

Eddie bleeds Collingwood and when he senses that somebody is not in his corner he tries to put them in their place.

Buckley aint put a foot wrong....one bad quarter against the new premiership fav and people act as if the sky is falling. Even with our injuries we may go 4-0 in the next month, and then go into a clash with the Cats potentially at 5-2....hardly panic stations.

My loyalty is 100% with Eddie.
His loyalty is 100% with the club. Our club.

Eddie has done everything for the club for nothing more than the love of it.
He is a true Collingwood legend and hero.

Malthouse deserves respect for his achievements but now he is nothing more than a disgruntled former employee.

 

[rose jam]

My loyalty is 100% with Eddie.
His loyalty is 100% with the club. Our club.

Eddie has done everything for the club for nothing more than the love of it.
He is a true Collingwood legend and hero.

Malthouse deserves respect for his achievements but now he is nothing more than a disgruntled former employee.

I always get the sense with MM that the young players love him but the more mature ones sort of tire of him.

 

[Old Spice]

I always get the sense with MM that the young players love him but the more mature ones sort of tire of him.

Old or young, fast or slow, laconic or intense, the playing group are employees of the Club.

There's been all sorts of media speculation about Buckley's relationship with players who have been under the spotlight. Harry and Daisy being prominent amongst them.

Harry certainly had a strong relationship with Mick post his own personal tragedy, but the media don't want to remember or CBF remembering that Harry used to make a neurotic habit of calling him the night before game day for advice and a general chat when he was cementing a spot.

I'm pretty certain Daisy had a similar relationship with Bucks.

Didak was also at one time considered as a rat pack member a natural opponent of Bucks but in later years they developed a strong bond.

Swan and Bucks openly clashed in the early years, but Swan accepts that he was a jack-the-lad. He also wants to see his good mate Taz win.

Either which way, this whole idea of Bucks personality being an impediment to success is a school boy argument.

It's hardly necessary to have an emotive coach to bring out the best in this list. Some of the great coaches have been straightforward, Matthews in particular and Bomber as well.

 

[DeeKaay]

If Eddie doesn't step down as President, things will only get worse.

 

[Old Spice]

If Eddie doesn't step down as President, things will only get worse.

How do you figure that one?

 

[DrEvil]

My loyalty is 100% with Eddie.
His loyalty is 100% with the club. Our club.

Eddie has done everything for the club for nothing more than the love of it.
He is a true Collingwood legend and hero.

Malthouse deserves respect for his achievements but now he is nothing more than a disgruntled former employee.

No doubt Eddie is 100% loyal, but he is definitely not 100% professional as a radio show host.

 

[il Blu]

How do you figure that one?

I can answer that one...

Should the Collingwood Football Club continue down the same path then obviously someone will need to be held accountable. Eddie ousted a tried and true premiership coach for an untried coach. Obviously at the time the deal was done, circumstances were quite different.... However any good leader would have stepped in last year and made it so Mick could and would stay on. From memory it was touted somewhere that the 2010 Collingwood Premiership side was the second youngest in the history of the game (Only behind an 80's Hawthorn side).... That means that the Premiership window is still very much open and should remain open for a few years at least - A Collingwood result outside the top 4 (baring extreme circumstances) should be viewed as a disaster and like I said earlier.... Should this come to fruition then obviously the most logical person to be held accountable would have to be Eddie. And while we're on the "Eddie" topic - The way he's handled himself in the media has been disgraceful! While I am a Carlton Supporter I've spoken to quite a few Collingwood Supporters and most if not all seem to agree!

 

[Jackaaa]

You've had 2 premiership coaches in the last 50 years and you just got rid of one that would have taken you back to back if not for injuries. Mental mental mental decision.

 

[SuperSub17]

Those opposition supporters here bagging Eddie, just piss off, no one wants you here

Eddie dragged our club from ruin in the late 90s to a drought-breaking premiership and a genuine powerhouse once again. If you can't handle his success, that is your problem so deal with it

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

You've had 2 premiership coaches in the last 50 years and you just got rid of one that would have taken you back to back if not for injuries. Mental mental mental decision.

This year and next year? I think another team might have won last year.

 

[DeeKaay]

How do you figure that one?

Eddie is increasingly becoming a divisive element at CFC and this is damaging the club.

Eddie has staked his reputation on the success of Buckley and if Buckley fails, Eddie will be unable to bring himself to change the coach. It will be like watching a slow train wreck.

There are major concerns over Buckley’s ability to be a premiership coach, the main ones being:
- Browlow medalists do not make good coaches. We need to go back to Malcolm Blight to find the last successful Brownlow medalist coach – and a long way further back for the next one. Back pocket players make the best coaches (Malthouse, Bomber Thompson, Sheedy, Hafey). The best coaches were players who struggled to get a game. In relation to what makes a good coach, Sheedy once said something like, “No-one can coach James Hird, you just pick him, I focus on the bottom 6, that’s where you make a difference.” What can Buckley teach the bottom 6 at Collingwood? He has no experience of what they are struggling with. Was Buckley ever omitted due to poor form? I doubt it, not even since he played in the under 9s.
- Buckley has no-one to learn from. Apart from one year at Brisbane way back in 1993, he has only ever been at one club. He has a thousand people giving him advice, including you and me, but he has no actual experience of how things are done at other clubs.
- Buckley will not be given time to rebuild the list. He has lost Davis, Ball and Krakouer from last year’s grand final team and there are too many other players injured. When they come back they will not be match fit. Carrazzo has worked out how to stop Pendlebury and others will copy him. And, at 28 years of age, how many elite games of football does Swan have left in him? Maybe 10. Swan has been a great player, in the long history of the Collingwood football club, only 49 players have played more games. He’ll keep playing for another 3-4 years but he will get slower and have less impact.

If Buckley fails as coach, Eddie will be remembered as the President who sacked the premiership coach. Eddie’s legacy is tied to Buckley’s success as coach. IMO, Eddie will fight for Buckley, always in the name of the club, but really to protect his own legacy. The tragedy for the CFC will be that Eddie will not realise this is what he is doing and will (genuinely) justify his actions to the bitter end.

 

[Scodog10]

This post is one of the most awful and ill informed I've ever seen on Bigfooty so I'll break it down into parts to respond.

- Browlow medalists do not make good coaches. We need to go back to Malcolm Blight to find the last successful Brownlow medalist coach – and a long way further back for the next one. Back pocket players make the best coaches (Malthouse, Bomber Thompson, Sheedy, Hafey). The best coaches were players who struggled to get a game. In relation to what makes a good coach, Sheedy once said something like, “No-one can coach James Hird, you just pick him, I focus on the bottom 6, that’s where you make a difference.” What can Buckley teach the bottom 6 at Collingwood? He has no experience of what they are struggling with. Was Buckley ever omitted due to poor form? I doubt it, not even since he played in the under 9s.

Maybe just maybe the lack of brownlow medalists becoming good coaches has something to do with the fact that precious few ever go onto coach at VFL/ AFL level

Since Blight won his in 1978 there has been 37 men to win the Brownlow (28 of which have retired) and of those 28 only 5 have coached at senior level (Blight, Quinlan, Hird, Voss and Buckley) with 4 of those having a grand total of 5 seasons of coaching experience between them which includes Quinlan's season at Fitzroy in 95 when they were finished!!!!!

From memory the greatest man to ever play the game seemed to have a good coaching record. What was it 4 premierships from 5 GF's with a threepeat thrown in for good measure? So maybe you could ask the bottom six that he coached what they were able to learn from him

- Buckley has no-one to learn from. Apart from one year at Brisbane way back in 1993, he has only ever been at one club. He has a thousand people giving him advice, including you and me, but he has no actual experience of how things are done at other clubs.

Buckley has been coached by and therefore learnt from Robert Walls, Leigh Matthews, Tony Shaw, Malthouse and is now being mentored by Rodney Eade. Some may not like or respect all those men but between the 5 of them they have been involved with 9 of the 20 clubs that have existed in their time in the game and between them they have either coached or played in 21 premierships. So he's been able to learn from some of the most brilliant men to have ever been involved in the game!!!

Compare that to Hird who was coached by Sheedy and mentored by Thompson, who are both astute football people, yet pale in significance to those that have helped shape Buckley. Would you ever say such things about Hird having no one to learn from? My guess is no.....

- Buckley will not be given time to rebuild the list. He has lost Davis, Ball and Krakouer from last year’s grand final team and there are too many other players injured. When they come back they will not be match fit. Carrazzo has worked out how to stop Pendlebury and others will copy him. And, at 28 years of age, how many elite games of football does Swan have left in him? Maybe 10. Swan has been a great player, in the long history of the Collingwood football club, only 49 players have played more games. He’ll keep playing for another 3-4 years but he will get slower and have less impact.

Is there something wrong with you? There is no way on earth that the man that won a Brownlow last year has less than half a season of elite football left in him lol.

As it is Buckley has a 3 year contract as a minimum so why wouldn't he be given time to rebuild if needed? MM was able to do it in a 3 year period starting at the beginning of the 04 off season and ending at the end of the 06 off season. Since then we've been top 4 in 4 of the past 5 years. Plus with the current age and depth profile of our list if we were to win a premiership in 2014 (the final year of his deal) the team to win it will have at least 10 changes to the one that won in 2010 which would just about constitute a list build IMO.

FWIW we've turned over 26 players since that premiership which would imply that we've gone someway towards a list rebuild anyway.

If Buckley fails as coach, Eddie will be remembered as the President who sacked the premiership coach. Eddie’s legacy is tied to Buckley’s success as coach. IMO, Eddie will fight for Buckley, always in the name of the club, but really to protect his own legacy. The tragedy for the CFC will be that Eddie will not realise this is what he is doing and will (genuinely) justify his actions to the bitter end.

Eddie saved this club and there is no two ways about it. Buckley could coach us to 3 straight spoons and it wouldn't tarnish Ed's legacy one iota with any supporter with more than half a brain.

Take your rubbish elsewhere because your clearly not capable of anything approaching intelligence when it comes to this topic and all your doing is slandering Buckley, which won't be stood for on this board!!!

 

[76woodenspooners]

Eddie is increasingly becoming a divisive element at CFC and this is damaging the club.

Eddie has staked his reputation on the success of Buckley and if Buckley fails, Eddie will be unable to bring himself to change the coach. It will be like watching a slow train wreck.

There are major concerns over Buckley’s ability to be a premiership coach, the main ones being:
- Browlow medalists do not make good coaches. We need to go back to Malcolm Blight to find the last successful Brownlow medalist coach – and a long way further back for the next one. Back pocket players make the best coaches (Malthouse, Bomber Thompson, Sheedy, Hafey). The best coaches were players who struggled to get a game. In relation to what makes a good coach, Sheedy once said something like, “No-one can coach James Hird, you just pick him, I focus on the bottom 6, that’s where you make a difference.” What can Buckley teach the bottom 6 at Collingwood? He has no experience of what they are struggling with. Was Buckley ever omitted due to poor form? I doubt it, not even since he played in the under 9s.
- Buckley has no-one to learn from. Apart from one year at Brisbane way back in 1993, he has only ever been at one club. He has a thousand people giving him advice, including you and me, but he has no actual experience of how things are done at other clubs.
- Buckley will not be given time to rebuild the list. He has lost Davis, Ball and Krakouer from last year’s grand final team and there are too many other players injured. When they come back they will not be match fit. Carrazzo has worked out how to stop Pendlebury and others will copy him. And, at 28 years of age, how many elite games of football does Swan have left in him? Maybe 10. Swan has been a great player, in the long history of the Collingwood football club, only 49 players have played more games. He’ll keep playing for another 3-4 years but he will get slower and have less impact.

If Buckley fails as coach, Eddie will be remembered as the President who sacked the premiership coach. Eddie’s legacy is tied to Buckley’s success as coach. IMO, Eddie will fight for Buckley, always in the name of the club, but really to protect his own legacy. The tragedy for the CFC will be that Eddie will not realise this is what he is doing and will (genuinely) justify his actions to the bitter end.

DeeKay, you raised some interesting points there. I thought it was an interesting point you made about Buckley not being able to empathise with the bottom 6. He would have had to learn some sense of that when he was captain and needing to communicate with the team. He may have / develop those tools - neither you nor I can say.

But there are a few points that I vehemently disagree with.

Firstly: I do not believe that Eddie and Buckley are inextricably linked. If Buckley fails as a coach (and let's be realistic about this - it happens - eg: Tony Shaw) - I just don't see that the voting members would kick Eddie out for it.

Secondly: there's no reason why some contentious prize voted for by the umpires (ie The Brownlow) should taint a player's ability to be a successful coach. Whilst Leigh Matthews, Chris Scott and Bomber Thompson may not be Brownlow Medal winners, they were a long way from bottom 6 spuds struggling to get a game.

 

[Stifler's mom]

Anyone else expecting MM to say that Anzac day football should be shared around?

I reckon you can lock that in!

Cue an angry response from Eddie!

 

[TheWoodsOf72]

The biggest waste of time and effort was appointing Tony Shaw as coach.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I think Scodog is a bit too dismissive of Deekay, if not outright rude. Deekay is entitled to his opinion, and the argument he presents is interesting, even if people do disagree with it. Telling him to 'take your argument elsewhere because you are clearly not capable of anything approaching intelligence ....' is an insult to the post which is undeserved. Surely we do not have to be so thin skinned as to react to different views in such an aggressive way.

 

[DeeKaay]

This post is one of the most awful and ill informed I've ever seen on Bigfooty so I'll break it down into parts to respond.

DeeKaay: Scodog10, I think getting personal is against the rules.


Scodog10: Maybe just maybe the lack of brownlow medalists becoming good coaches has something to do with the fact that precious few ever go onto coach at VFL/ AFL level

Since Blight won his in 1978 there has been 37 men to win the Brownlow (28 of which have retired) and of those 28 only 5 have coached at senior level (Blight, Quinlan, Hird, Voss and Buckley) with 4 of those having a grand total of 5 seasons of coaching experience between them which includes Quinlan's season at Fitzroy in 95 when they were finished!!!!!

DeeKaay: I don't understand your point here. You seem to be supporting my view that Browlow medalists can't coach. I would say that the reason very few Brownlow medalists go on to coach is because the Board of Directors at most clubs agree with my point of view and don't appoint their star palyers as coach. The record you have highlighted speaks for itself. I think what we have at Collingwood is that one member of the board pushed through his own agenda against the tide of accepted wisdom. I would like to know what the other Collingwood board members think of the decision to appoint Buckley. Does anyone know?

Scodog10: From memory the greatest man to ever play the game seemed to have a good coaching record. What was it 4 premierships from 5 GF's with a threepeat thrown in for good measure? So maybe you could ask the bottom six that he coached what they were able to learn from him

DeeKaay: IMO, the greatest player ever was Kevin Bartlett and he failed as a coach (no need to respoind to this).

Scodog10: Buckley has been coached by and therefore learnt from Robert Walls, Leigh Matthews, Tony Shaw, Malthouse and is now being mentored by Rodney Eade. Some may not like or respect all those men but between the 5 of them they have been involved with 9 of the 20 clubs that have existed in their time in the game and between them they have either coached or played in 21 premierships. So he's been able to learn from some of the most brilliant men to have ever been involved in the game!!!

DeeKaay: The game has changed a fair bit since Tony Shaw was coach. Anyway, my point is, Buckley has no personal experience outside the CFC. History shows this is not the path to coaching greatness. He might be the exception but the wieght of history is against him.

Scodog10: Compare that to Hird who was coached by Sheedy and mentored by Thompson, who are both astute football people, yet pale in significance to those that have helped shape Buckley. Would you ever say such things about Hird having no one to learn from? My guess is no.....

DeeKaay: Hird is an interesting case. While he won a Brownlow, he also lived the struggle in the early years to make the side. My point about Buckley, and most Brownlow medal winners, is that they do not have this experience to draw on. Swan is another example of a Brownlow medalist who lived the struggle. I would back him to be a better coach than Buckley.


Scodog10: Is there something wrong with you?

DeeKaay: Please don't get personal.

Scodog10: There is no way on earth that the man that won a Brownlow last year has less than half a season of elite football left in him lol.

DeeKaay: Time will tell.

Scodog10: As it is Buckley has a 3 year contract as a minimum so why wouldn't he be given time to rebuild if needed? MM was able to do it in a 3 year period starting at the beginning of the 04 off season and ending at the end of the 06 off season. Since then we've been top 4 in 4 of the past 5 years. Plus with the current age and depth profile of our list if we were to win a premiership in 2014 (the final year of his deal) the team to win it will have at least 10 changes to the one that won in 2010 which would just about constitute a list build IMO.

DeeKaay: No coach ever got sacked at the end of his contract.

Scodog10: FWIW we've turned over 26 players since that premiership which would imply that we've gone someway towards a list rebuild anyway.

DeeKaay: Premierships are won by top draft picks such as Pendlebury (5), Thomas (2), Ball (2). To rebuild a list you need to go to the bottom of the well for a couple of years, then wait at least 2-3 more. a three year contract won't do that.

Scodog10: Eddie saved this club and there is no two ways about it. Buckley could coach us to 3 straight spoons and it wouldn't tarnish Ed's legacy one iota with any supporter with more than half a brain.

DeeKaay: If Buckley starts to struggle as coach and Eddie becomes increasingly erractic in his efforts to save him, the Collingwood supporters will turn against Eddie - and rightly so. If Eddie wan't to leave on his own terms, he should be planning his exit now.

Scodog10: Take your rubbish elsewhere because your clearly not capable of anything approaching intelligence when it comes to this topic and all your doing is slandering Buckley, which won't be stood for on this board!!!

DeeKaay: Please don't get personal.

DeeKaay: Sorry about the formatting - I'm new here and not very tech literate.