Marc Murphy vs Dale Thomas - Revisited

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Obviously Collingwood get bragging rights on pretty much everything this year, and well done to them, but this seems a bit silly to me. As another poster said, we're talking about the 3 clear standouts from that (weak) draft. Its like arguing apples vs oranges vs pears, and totally forgetting that you could be eating cardboard instead.

Thomas did play better than Murphy this year, which means he has played better than Murphy in exactly one season - a season in which his team won the premiership, while Murphy battled injury all year and couldn't train at full pace. Not sure what this means for the long term, but lets not put oranges ahead just yet..

As for Pendlebury, he is a great player, and won a Norm Smith medal, so I guess that settles the debate for a while. At the very least, he is an outstanding AFL midfielder who performs on the big stage, while Murphy is just an outstanding AFL midfielder. For the time being, Pendlebury gets the nod.

You know who gets a free pass in this discussion? Hawthorn. Note the common elements here:

1. Marc Murphy. (Carlton) Very Good AFL midfielder, established star
2. Dale Thomas. (Collingwood) Versatile AFL player who is becoming a star
3. Xavier Ellis. (Hawthorn) Ummm. Played ok in the back pocket a few times in a premiership team, but not particularly exciting
4. Josh Kennedy (Carlton-West Coast) Solid CHF who took a while to get going, but starting to become a star
5. Scott Pendlebury (Collingwood) Star midfielder who won Norm Smith Medal
6. Beau Dowler (Hawthorn) Umm.
7. Patrick Ryder (Essendon) versatile ruckman with star qualities
8. Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls (Richmond) ok, this one is bad, but it was Richmond
9. Mitchell Clark (Brisbane) Versatile ruckman with star potential
10. Marcus Drum (Freo) Again, bad, but it was Freo

Not actually that bad a top 10. If you had 2 picks there, with 6/10 showing star potential, you'd be pretty happy. So how Hawthorn managed to end up with a rotation midfielder and a dud seems astonishing. Why they took Dowler a year after taking Franklin/Roughead is astonishing. Even worse, they've spent the last 5 years desperately hunting ruckmen - and there were 2 star ruckmen waiting for them in the next 4 picks.

Throw in something about Richmond and flaky indigenous players (Tambling one year, Oakley-Nichols the next), and why Collingwood supporters are obsessed with comparing Murphy and Thomas just seems incomprehensible.
 
I said @ the start of the year that Dale Thomas' development curve has been very similar to that of Ablett Jr's. So far I'm proven to be on the right track.

Both of them had their breakout seasons in their 5th season of AFL.

In Ablett's 6th season, he went bang and become an out & out superstar. Let's see what happens next year with thomas.
 
btdg said:
You know who gets a free pass in this discussion? Hawthorn. Note the common elements here:

1. Marc Murphy. (Carlton) Very Good AFL midfielder, established star
2. Dale Thomas. (Collingwood) Versatile AFL player who is becoming a star
3. Xavier Ellis. (Hawthorn) Ummm. Played ok in the back pocket a few times in a premiership team, but not particularly exciting
4. Josh Kennedy (Carlton-West Coast) Solid CHF who took a while to get going, but starting to become a star
5. Scott Pendlebury (Collingwood) Star midfielder who won Norm Smith Medal
6. Beau Dowler (Hawthorn) Umm.
7. Patrick Ryder (Essendon) versatile ruckman with star qualities
8. Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls (Richmond) ok, this one is bad, but it was Richmond
9. Mitchell Clark (Brisbane) Versatile ruckman with star potential
10. Marcus Drum (Freo) Again, bad, but it was Freo

Not actually that bad a top 10. If you had 2 picks there, with 6/10 showing star potential, you'd be pretty happy. So how Hawthorn managed to end up with a rotation midfielder and a dud seems astonishing. Why they took Dowler a year after taking Franklin/Roughead is astonishing. Even worse, they've spent the last 5 years desperately hunting ruckmen - and there were 2 star ruckmen waiting for them in the next 4 picks.

Throw in something about Richmond and flaky indigenous players (Tambling one year, Oakley-Nichols the next), and why Collingwood supporters are obsessed with comparing Murphy and Thomas just seems incomprehensible.
Click to expand...

Yes what was the reasoning for this it seems pretty poor management indeed.
 

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btdg said:
Thomas did play better than Murphy this year, which means he has played better than Murphy in exactly one season - a season in which his team won the premiership,
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First season he's been given an opportunity in the midfield and he went BANG. Thomas and Pendles walked into a team that finished 15th and have played finals every year since. They both did development time as half-forwards, Pendlebury progressed to the middle sooner while Thomas developed his game further with some time at half-back and then back to half-forward in a defensive role last year.

It is like comparing Apples and Oranges, but given Carlton fans have been havnig digs at Thomas and Pendles since day dot, and both now have Premiership medals and have left Murphy for dead, its not unreasonable to expect it to become a talking point.

At the end of the day, Carlton cuold have taken anyone with Pick 1, and they definitely didn't get the best player. The Pies didn't get it right at Pick 2 either, as the best player in the draft went at #5. Although for arguments sake, Thomas was always going Top 5, so we had to take him at #2, while Pendles as a huge bolter so we could afford to let him 'slide' to 5 and still be sure we'd get him.
 
Big Kahuna Boot said:
..pies fans are dancing cos daisy had a better 2010 season..?.. ..the same season that murphy had surgery prior to, and as a gut running mid wasn't able to have a proper pre-season.. ..he was underdone early in the season, and the way he was able to run out the year was very good.. ..daisy had a very good season, especially going by his previous years.. ..basically, it's his first good and consistent season.. ..good to see, but to say that makes him ahead of murphy isn't true in my opinion..
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congrats on jamming so many excuses into one para. Murphy has never had a season as good as Tomas has this year - fit or unfit. He is unlikely to play as well as he did in Grand Finals (or even have the opportunity)

Sheahan is RIGHT. Daisy is one of the BEST in the comp! Suck it up
 
Scott Emberton said:
congrats on jamming so many excuses into one para. Murphy has never had a season as good as Tomas has this year - fit or unfit. He is unlikely to play as well as he did in Grand Finals (or even have the opportunity)

Sheahan is RIGHT. Daisy is one of the BEST in the comp! Suck it up
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Im not making excuses for Murph ask me next year,Thomas and Pendlbury had fantastic years, now they face a tougher year as taggers no their abilities.
 
scomac said:
Im not making excuses for Murph ask me next year,Thomas and Pendlbury had fantastic years, now they face a tougher year as taggers no their abilities.
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you reckon pendles hasn't been tagged this year? still 20+ Brownlow votes. Saints tried to tag Daisy. too fit for them
 
Shaker_Maker said:
So based on having a very good year in a very, very good side - Thomas is now a better player than Murphy?

Last 3 years Carlton B&F Murphy finished:

3rd 2010
2nd 2009
2nd 2008

All of those behind Judd.

Thomas:

15th 2009
8th 2008

The Pies dont even rate him. One stand out year as a front runner in a very good side doesn't make him a better player.

F*ck the GF win, Buckley never played in one and no player in the current Pies side is his boot lace.
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In fairness, a 15th placed finish in Collingwood's B&F is equivalent to winning Carlton's.
 
Dale Thomas defensive pressure is astounding, whilst Murphys is quite poor

It looks like Dale Thomas is going one way which is up. Marc Murphy whilst I think will be a good player, will never be elite.
 
AllFooty4 said:
Actually being 1st is even equivalent to winning the Carlton B and F because im sorry who won the brownlow again ?:)
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Who won the Coaches award? Who votes on club Best and Fairests? Righto then. Glad we got that sorted. :)
 
Scott Emberton said:
congrats on jamming so many excuses into one para. Murphy has never had a season as good as Tomas has this year - fit or unfit. He is unlikely to play as well as he did in Grand Finals (or even have the opportunity)

Sheahan is RIGHT. Daisy is one of the BEST in the comp! Suck it up
Click to expand...

..short memories indeed.. ..last season Murphy had a blinder.. ..easily comparable to daisy's season this year.. ..except one plays for a middle tier team, and this season one played for the premiers.. ..rack up their seasons to date, and Murphy has him covered.. ..and if you can't understand, or acknowledge how much having no real pre-season effects a prime midfielder............
 

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Thomas is a gun and has proven that he is more than just the stupid hair and those pathetic ads.
Seriosuly good footballer and a tough little bugger as well.
Has developed into one of the comp's top line players.
Murphy is OK. Good player, but not anywhere near Thomas.
 
Cripes what was that noise just then? Sounded like the hearts of a thousand blues supporters breaking
 
Big Kahuna Boot said:
..short memories indeed.. ..last season Murphy had a blinder.. ..easily comparable to daisy's season this year.. ..except one plays for a middle tier team, and this season one played for the premiers.. ..rack up their seasons to date, and Murphy has him covered.. ..and if you can't understand, or acknowledge how much having no real pre-season effects a prime midfielder............
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have you considered maybe that thomas is part of the reason we are premiers?

in fact i can say quite definitively if thomas did not improve we would have lost the first grand final hands down. saying he plays for a better team therefore is expected to be better than murphy is a false argument. he's just better.
 
Marc Murphy is still a better player than Dale Thomas, judged purely on the fact that Murphy has been better in 08, 09- and Thomas takes 10. But like Carlton supporters have been saying, Murphy does cop a fair bit of criticism unfairly, he was underdone this season. He would be a great addition to any midfield in the AFL.
I think Murphy will bounce back next season, however, I think Thomas will go past Murphy next year. Daisy's level of improvement and confidence is skyrocketing. He has a certain flair and x factor that Murphy doesn't have, and its this that I think will eventually see him being the better footballer. I think in 2 years Dale Thomas will be our Lenny Hayes or Brendon Goddard, in that he will lift us when needed, he can go forward take a mark and kick a goal, or hit a pack at a hundred miles an hour and inspire the side.

Certainly Daisy has Murphy covered in work off the ball, Daisy is one of the best pressure, chasing, tacklers for a guy his size that I can ever remember. If he fills out and bulks up more, he will be something to watch.
This is one thing that I think will stop Murphy from ever being a top 5 player in the comp, that plus he is a little undersized (height wise). Can't question Murphy's class though.
 
Murphy needs to improve his disposal and defensive skills and not wory about trying to kick goals.
I watched him a lot at under 18 level and I thought the same thing back then as I do now.

One of his former coaches mentioned to me that Murph needs to change his mentality from juniors to AFL level. When I asked him to clarify he said that Murphy likes to kick goals and if he kicks 2 or 3 a game he feels he's done his job whereas he needs to adapt more to the team aspects of AFL footy.

Murphy will the cream on the cake for the blues one day if they can improve around him, but the way he plays he doesnt contribute in the way Thomas now does.

Here is some comments about him by talent scout Colin Wisbey from 2006. I'm sure you'll agree that these comments are spot on 5 years down the track.


MURPHY, Marc (1) [Car] Creative predator and linker. Not outside per se and gets his share of good clearances but is more smart predator than hard-nut. Not lightning quick but quickish and provides run, has smarts and vision, reads play and ball well. Kicking over short distance can be very good, albeit not routinely, but struggles for depth and does his share of floaters. I felt Murphy would be best suited to a team that already had quality First Dibs onballers and/or quality rucks (eg Hawthorn). Carlton does not fit that description. I disagree with the popular perception of him as a traditional in 'n under rover. I see him as more a footy-smart swoop-through creator and linker. He will be a good AFL player but not of the class or impact of a Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Hodge, Judd, Ball, Cooney or Griffen
 
Dale Thomas is now a fantastic player! tough and hard at it.... absolutely made a name for himself this year, obviously in the finals.
He may look like a pretty boy but he most certainly does not play like it now!
People who bag him are jealous... anyway how could anybody possibly bag him after the 2 grand finals he played in?
 

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Marc Murphy vs Dale Thomas - Revisited

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